Invitation to debate
Posted: 10 June 2008 04:33 AM   [ Ignore ]  
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Jack, just to let you know I have just posted a topic in Faith (General Issues) called ‘What Will God Decide?’ You may be interested in my proposition.

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Posted: 11 June 2008 04:16 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]  
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mesomorph - 10 June 2008 08:33 AM

Jack, just to let you know I have just posted a topic in Faith (General Issues) called ‘What Will God Decide?’ You may be interested in my proposition.

I’m not interested in your apparent disinterest in being a sincere seeker of truth.

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Posted: 12 June 2008 03:39 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]  
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Jack Shooter - 11 June 2008 08:16 PM

I’m not interested in your apparent disinterest in being a sincere seeker of truth.

I’m glad you have allowed that my disinterest is only apparent!

Actually I am as zealous in the search for truth as anyone. I am a former Muslim (now an apostate, for which my life is of course forfeit under Sharia law), but have moved on to a broader spiritual awareness.

Please don’t feel personally got at, I enjoy indulging in a little scholar-baiting. It would be good if you could share the joke instead of always bridling at it. The Christians on this forum usually have a great sense of humour, that’s why we like them. Most of us, I’m sorry to say, don’t like you very much yet.

But you could change that. You could start by lightening up, enjoying life instead of making such hard work out of it.

I’ll let you have the last word - for now!

wa’s salaam

Mohsin

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Posted: 12 June 2008 04:58 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]  
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mesomorph - 12 June 2008 07:39 AM
Jack Shooter - 11 June 2008 08:16 PM

I’m not interested in your apparent disinterest in being a sincere seeker of truth.

I’m glad you have allowed that my disinterest is only apparent!

Actually I am as zealous in the search for truth as anyone. I am a former Muslim (now an apostate, for which my life is of course forfeit under Sharia law), but have moved on to a broader spiritual awareness.

Please don’t feel personally got at, I enjoy indulging in a little scholar-baiting. It would be good if you could share the joke instead of always bridling at it. The Christians on this forum usually have a great sense of humour, that’s why we like them. Most of us, I’m sorry to say, don’t like you very much yet.

But you could change that. You could start by lightening up, enjoying life instead of making such hard work out of it.

I’ll let you have the last word - for now!

wa’s salaam

Mohsin

Interesting that you are a former Muslim, unless you are joking of course.  Were you just passing through Islam or did you have the privilage of being born into and raised by a Muslim family?

As to people not liking me much, what can I say?  I’m not here to please people, just to speak the truth as I understand it, regardless of whether others think it a bad thing.

I don’t know why you think I view life as ‘such hard work’.

All praises are due to God, I feel very blessed.  My home is like heaven on earth, life is great for me, I enjoy every moment, except when I am in disobedience to God.  And even if and when it gets tough, I pray that I will be patient.  But it’s all good.

Peace.

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Posted: 12 June 2008 09:11 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]  
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Jack Shooter - 12 June 2008 08:58 AM

Interesting that you are a former Muslim, unless you are joking of course.  Were you just passing through Islam or did you have the privilage of being born into and raised by a Muslim family?

As to people not liking me much, what can I say?  I’m not here to please people, just to speak the truth as I understand it, regardless of whether others think it a bad thing.

I don’t know why you think I view life as ‘such hard work’.

All praises are due to God, I feel very blessed.  My home is like heaven on earth, life is great for me, I enjoy every moment, except when I am in disobedience to God.  And even if and when it gets tough, I pray that I will be patient.  But it’s all good.

Peace.

No, I’m not joking. I was attracted to Islam as a young man. But something in me was always unhappy about organised religion. Harris’s book laid out the arguments so clearly that I became an atheist immediately upon reading it. Not anti-spiritual though, like the hard atheists on this forum.

You may not be here to please people, but if people don’t like you they won’t listen to what you have to say, so you’ll be wasting energy. That’s the hard work I’m talking about. Not that you view it like that.

You remind me of myself at a young age.

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Posted: 12 June 2008 09:23 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]  
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mesomorph - 12 June 2008 01:11 PM
Jack Shooter - 12 June 2008 08:58 AM

Interesting that you are a former Muslim, unless you are joking of course.  Were you just passing through Islam or did you have the privilage of being born into and raised by a Muslim family?

As to people not liking me much, what can I say?  I’m not here to please people, just to speak the truth as I understand it, regardless of whether others think it a bad thing.

I don’t know why you think I view life as ‘such hard work’.

All praises are due to God, I feel very blessed.  My home is like heaven on earth, life is great for me, I enjoy every moment, except when I am in disobedience to God.  And even if and when it gets tough, I pray that I will be patient.  But it’s all good.

Peace.

No, I’m not joking. I was attracted to Islam as a young man. But something in me was always unhappy about organised religion. Harris’s book laid out the arguments so clearly that I became an atheist immediately upon reading it. Not anti-spiritual though, like the hard atheists on this forum.

You may not be here to please people, but if people don’t like you they won’t listen to what you have to say, so you’ll be wasting energy. That’s the hard work I’m talking about. Not that you view it like that.

You remind me of myself at a young age.

I’m aware that with age people tend to become more skeptical, more pessemistic, more ambivalent.  People often feel, when they’ve been around long enough, that nothing is impressive.  Not every older person, not you obviously.  You seem to be quite impressionable given that the arguments in Sam Harris’ book turned you away from God, unless of course you are still a believer in God, just not organized religion.

In any case, I would be interested in knowing what particular arguments ‘turned you off’ from religion altogether.  What was it that you were unhappy about from the beginning.

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Posted: 12 June 2008 03:14 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]  
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Jack Shooter - 12 June 2008 01:23 PM

You seem to be quite impressionable given that the arguments in Sam Harris’ book turned you away from God, unless of course you are still a believer in God, just not organized religion.

In any case, I would be interested in knowing what particular arguments ‘turned you off’ from religion altogether.  What was it that you were unhappy about from the beginning.

I have been through many changes of mind in my vast span of years. Christian upbringing as a child, scorn of religion as a teenager, spiritual ideals as a young adult, realisation that religion is a major distraction from the real issues (which are primarily psychological), and finally release from the whole mental straitjacket by Sam Harris’ work.

My view of religion today. Religion (particularly monotheistic religion) is a way of institutionalising and maintaining the values of the agricultural revolution that took place around 10,000 years ago in the middle East. Control and exploitation of nature, ownership of land, establishment of cities and armies, increase of population, the whole disaster. It is unsustainable. You cannot have infinite growth within a closed system, god or no god.

Nowadays I prefer the attitude of the Druids and the north American natives. Above all, respect and honour nature, that you and your seed may live. If this planet dies, so do we.

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