Jack Shooter said:
lindajean,
Regrettably, you are making gross errors in confusing various human behaviours with others on the basis of harm. Remember the saying, “no pain, no gain”? Well, actually this adage reflects an ancient wisdom or truth that religion often emphasizes (i.e. patience, sacrifice, etc.). More importantly, this understanding is rightly applied to things such as marriage and child bearing, and even eating animals (i.e. need for certain specific protein).
lindajean said:
It is ‘rightly applied” only in your terms because it is what you believe to be true.
Nutritionally you can get all the protein you need in a non-meat diet….....etc…...
Note that just because it is possible to meet nutritional requirements through a vegetarian diet does not make it immoral to eat meat, fish, poultry, etc. More importantly, that it is possible to acheive nutritional requirments through a vegetarian diet does not mean that meat is not necessary for the many people who do not have access to the plants that would provide them with the required nutrition. For sure, one could rightly argue that eating meat excessively is immoral for various reasons, or even that being an extreme vegetarian/vegan is immoral for various reasons, but not that eating meat or abstaining from it is immoral in and of itself. That position would be unsupportable.
What I have been saying regarding morality here I know to be true insofar as I have come to these conclusions based on the use of my intellect. I am sure that if you would use your intellect instead of emotion, you would find what I have said to be true as well.
Jack Shooter said:
However, “no pain, no gain” CANNOT be applied to sodomy, and pornography, and other prohibited matters for there is ONLY loss in such things. Health problems from sodomy are clear (refer to the health reports I posted on this), and the ill consequences of pornography are clear (i.e. objectification/comodification of women (and men, but mostly women), correlation to addiction and increasing need for more and more ‘hardcore’ forms of sex including violent sex acts, and other things, there is ample evidence).
lindajean said:
There is loss in all kinds of human experiences but that is not a precondition for abstaining from them nor is it a moral one.
Some losses are an inevitable part of life (and indeed there are often benefits in those losses), others are not. Only a fool would not avoid the latter type. Likewise, to engage in something in which there may be only a fleeting pleasure while suffering overarching loss is certainly immoral. Compare marriage and fornication or adultrey. The former, while enjoyable also includes much suffering, but the suffering is of a different type, one that often leads to growth and even more joy when put into context. Conversely, the latter behaviors are immoral because while it may entail a pleasure, it necessarily results in the demise of individual and family well being, as well as creates a burden for society at large. The latter group of behaviors are simply unsustainable.
Again, most religions are clear on these matters, but Islam provides the best (i.e. most accurate, complete, and reliable) articulation of these things.
lindajean said:
Again, these are your subjective beliefs that you have an unrelenting desire to bear truth.
No, these are facts that you have not bothered to look at or that you know but for some reason would say anything to deny.
