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Islamic threat : how real is it ?
Posted: 17 June 2008 12:49 AM   [ Ignore ]  
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Every now and then you hear the words “Islamic threat to the world ” .Many people—-no- MOST people , give that statement no leverage at all; probably never have even given a second thought to the idea.  Then there’s ( you know the type )who say “How ridiculous !  “Just because SOME Muslims attacked us does’nt mean they go around making trouble ! ”  Other famous words : “You are just prejudiced ! ” Actually Islam is a peaceful religion ! ” “This country ( America ) causes more wars and is responsible for more conflicts than Islamic forces ever do ! ”  And other such heartfelt claptrap.


One of the mysteries of the century is why people in this country are so highly indignate about, and resentful of, any criticism of those who actually hate us and have abused us.Those who can be correctly defined as our enemies . More about that later sometime, but right now let us ask what are the actual statistics ?

The statistics, as I’ve learned so far , are interesting . ON Islam and the wars around the globe : is it really responsible for much ? 

At this time, there are aproximately 48 conflicts (wars ) going on worldwide . AND 31 OF THEM ARE ISLAMIC RELATED . So for those who want to argue about whether or not Islam is a threat to world peace, the facts say they are wrong . Actually Islam IS at war with the whole world of non-Muslim societies of non- believers. That includes the “West ” and all of Europe. (All together now : Ha ha ha ! )

Are these “notions “of Islam and militancy a mistake ?  For those who think the idea of radical Islam being a danger to world ( in one form or the other ) is more funny than fearsome—well, let’s put it this way : you must know better than the experts on the subject. If you want to find out about a disease you ask a doctor, if you have a science -related issue you talk to a scientist about it, if you are interested in a historic event you take a class taught by an expert on the subject, and if you want to get some perspective on Islam and it’s bad influence or war ,either militant or religious ,—-you find out the straight dope from those who are knowledgable ; those who are tuned in. Why are people so afraid of facing reality ? It hurts, I guess . We should be asking ourselves how we would handle it .

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Posted: 17 June 2008 09:44 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]  
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Dee - 17 June 2008 04:49 AM

Every now and then you hear the words “Islamic threat to the world ” .Many people—-no- MOST people , give that statement no leverage at all; probably never have even given a second thought to the idea.  Then there’s ( you know the type )who say “How ridiculous !  “Just because SOME Muslims attacked us does’nt mean they go around making trouble ! ”  Other famous words : “You are just prejudiced ! ” Actually Islam is a peaceful religion ! ” “This country ( America ) causes more wars and is responsible for more conflicts than Islamic forces ever do ! ”  And other such heartfelt claptrap.


One of the mysteries of the century is why people in this country are so highly indignate about, and resentful of, any criticism of those who actually hate us and have abused us.Those who can be correctly defined as our enemies . More about that later sometime, but right now let us ask what are the actual statistics ?

The statistics, as I’ve learned so far , are interesting . ON Islam and the wars around the globe : is it really responsible for much ? 

At this time, there are aproximately 48 conflicts (wars ) going on worldwide . AND 31 OF THEM ARE ISLAMIC RELATED . So for those who want to argue about whether or not Islam is a threat to world peace, the facts say they are wrong . Actually Islam IS at war with the whole world of non-Muslim societies of non- believers. That includes the “West ” and all of Europe. (All together now : Ha ha ha ! )

Are these “notions “of Islam and militancy a mistake ?  For those who think the idea of radical Islam being a danger to world ( in one form or the other ) is more funny than fearsome—well, let’s put it this way : you must know better than the experts on the subject. If you want to find out about a disease you ask a doctor, if you have a science -related issue you talk to a scientist about it, if you are interested in a historic event you take a class taught by an expert on the subject, and if you want to get some perspective on Islam and it’s bad influence or war ,either militant or religious ,—-you find out the straight dope from those who are knowledgable ; those who are tuned in. Why are people so afraid of facing reality ? It hurts, I guess . We should be asking ourselves how we would handle it .

Good post Dee

On this sub-topic of Islam on this forum you will find a whole myriad of answers to your questions. The religious argue that Islam is a religion of peace and that they just have a few fanatics who give the rest a bad name. When PhDs fly airplanes into building for the sake of their commitment to their god, you gotta start to suspect that something is wrong. Maybe this just goes to show that education does not imply or require any intelligence at all or perhaps it goes deeper.

If you examine the texts and practices of religions in general, especially the Semites, you find a horror story of extreme cruelty, genocide, murder and violence. These are encouraged and even commanded by the texts which the believers consider to be either the literal or inspired words of their gods and prophets. Are these the acts of a few fanatics or the acts of those who practice orthodoxy? I say the latter.
Our acceptance of the religious faiths of others should not include the acceptance the evil it promotes.

Stay Well
Wot

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Posted: 17 June 2008 11:27 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]  
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RADICAL Islam is a threat, not Islam itself.  At least no more than Christianity or Judaism or anything else.  That said, saying radical Islam is a threat is VERY different than proclaiming that the religiou aspect of this problem is the CAUSE of the problem, especially when that aspect is something no one from the outside can possibly change. 

US foreign policy and geopolitics has put the muslim world into a positoin where they literally have no other means to air any grievances they might have.  This was done by western forces toppling govts in the region that got too well developed and for the groups that already held political power and influence, the west poured efforst towards those regimes that ended up concentrating all political power in the region to a few groups, that quickly were corrupted if they wreen’t previously.  Then, the west repeatedly keeps attacking and threatening and invading and pressuring and exploiting these nations in the meantime.

The west has backed the rabid dog into the corner by poking it with sticks to prod it, and is still poking it with said sticks.  To expect them to not react thru the lens of their only remaining reliable discourse in their cultures, their religion, is short sighted.  When you remove all possible means to air greivances politically, economically, and in terms of resource control, you are gonna get a population of ppl who turn to religion and even growing fits of natinoalistic pride to get them thru the tough times in hopes it’ll eventually get better. 

This isn’t unusual at all.  It happens every single time these structures are removed from a culture.  The problem is that when they keep getting exploited and disrespected at the national and cultural level, and you already have this populace turning to forms of nationalism and religion, the result you are gonna get is groups of ppl who start getting ultra-nationalistic and as such start identifying their grievances as causes for cultural or national revolutions and using their religion as a lens to achieve that. 

And of course any time you have ppl viewing political, economic, and cultural revolutiuons thru the lens of religion you end up with these groups looking for raical interpretations or radical applications of said religion.  Yes, Islam includes passages commanding ppl to kill unbelievers.  But so do both Judaism and Christianity.  This isn’t unique to Islam on the religious level.

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Posted: 17 June 2008 11:29 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]  
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Btw, Dee, Islam isn’t the thing keeping peace in the midle east from being achieved.  The thing doing that is the Israeli and US foreign policies explicitly.

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Posted: 17 June 2008 11:34 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]  
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tavishhill2003 - 17 June 2008 03:27 PM

RADICAL Islam is a threat, not Islam itself.

Nonsense. Every single person who worships a person they know fucked children, was a serial rapist and mass murderer is a seriously deranged individual who has thereby shown himself or herself morally incompetent.

That is, the vast majority of Muslims are morally insane, and should be treated as such in our dealings with them.

[ Edited: 17 June 2008 11:55 AM by arildno]
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Posted: 17 June 2008 11:57 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]  
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tavishhill2003 - 17 June 2008 03:27 PM

US foreign policy and geopolitics has put the muslim world into a positoin where they literally have no other means to air any grievances they might have.

Even more nonsense.
They could get on with their lives, be productive, rather than murdering others.

They are disgusting, twisted creatures, most of them.

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Posted: 17 June 2008 02:26 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]  
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arildno - 17 June 2008 03:57 PM
tavishhill2003 - 17 June 2008 03:27 PM

US foreign policy and geopolitics has put the muslim world into a positoin where they literally have no other means to air any grievances they might have.

Even more nonsense.
They could get on with their lives, be productive, rather than murdering others.

They are disgusting, twisted creatures, most of them.

So you are saying “most” as in more than 50% of the 1.2 billion muslims alive today are in fact “disgusting, twisted creatures”?  That’s quite a claim to make regarding 600 million ppl you’ve never met. 

And no, they can’t necessarily just pretend nothing happened and move on with their lives, lol.  Do you have any clue what you are asking of them in saying something that stupid?  Vast amounts of ppl in this part of the world have been plunged into poverty thanks to economic exploitation and political abuses by the west or often regional regimes propped up by the west. 

How do these ppl air their policy grievances?  They can’t ask their politicians to rebuke US foreign policy and push for international support and diplomacy, because those indigenous political structures are few and far between in the muslim world and even in the case where a group of politicians IS responsible to their populace, like Iran for instance, the rulers don’t have control over much of their own nation’s resources and has no real economic card to play with the US.  In the event that the rulers in such a nation start to get too ambitious and control their own economies or natural resources, we see the US and other western forces, traditionally Great Britain, jump in behind the scenes and overthrow the ruler.  It’s happened all over the muslim world like clockwork. 

When you are impoverished and have no political pull as a populace at all, no educational resources, no natural resources, and no economic measures to use as leverage against invading powers, tell me exactly how you plan to react?  It’s hard for atheists especially to put themselves in that sort of state of mind where all religious ppl can turn to for what they would call reliable guidance is their holy books. 

Most of these ppl can’t feed their families or themselves.  In several countries their homes and neighborhoods are routinely being bombed or shelled and family and friends getting killed.  They get forced off their own property jsut to watch it be destroyed.  And you are asking them to just sit back and not respond?  I agree, they don’t HAVE to respond by viewing the answer thru religious lenses.  BUT, if someone is already very religous when these problems start happening it immediately becomes a part of the problem taht can’t be solved with ratinoality. 

The trick isn’t to try to convince them to all become atheists.  That just isn’t gonna heppen.  The trick is to get them to stop hating us FIRST, cutting their cultural support and recruiting structures out from under the terrorist organizations.  The US is the only one with the power to do this, and staying in Iraq and continuing to exploit the muslim world in all those areas critical for cultural stability is doing nothing but breed more and more anti-American hatred in the region.  The longer we continue to operate under the failed foreign policy assumptions of the last 30 yrs, the more vulnerable we become to terrorist attacks and the stronger the terrorists become. 

I dunno about you guys, but I’d rather not see another 9/11 happen, especially if it signifies that we are too damn stupid as Americans to put someone in power who can learn from our mistakes.

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Posted: 17 June 2008 03:36 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]  
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arildno - 17 June 2008 03:57 PM
tavishhill2003 - 17 June 2008 03:27 PM

US foreign policy and geopolitics has put the muslim world into a positoin where they literally have no other means to air any grievances they might have.

Even more nonsense.
They could get on with their lives, be productive, rather than murdering others.

They are disgusting, twisted creatures, most of them.

Hey arildno—you sound like my kind of non-passive, shoot -from-the-hip guy ! As far as I’m concerned those who stand up and protest the “slandering ” of Muslim people for blasting the whole Islamic culture, are beating a dead horse. That’s because Islam is Islam—and everything that goes with it, and you can’t argue by rationalizing and making excuses for what is inhumane . And by standards of modern life as it is today, Islam IS inhumane.

Sure, there are plenty of “changed” Muslims who nevertheless claim to love thier religion at the same time they want to live like others who are free from religious restictions—-but they are hypocrisy in two shoes. We might ask ourselves just what side they’d take if it came down to a Muslim- West war. Jihad is a Muslim fight—-what side are “moderate” Muslims going to be on ?

And Tavish—-your views are an example of the views of the people I’ve been talking about . As far as I’m concerned youv’e kicked yourself in your own crotch by trying to put other religions on the same level as Islam. Can’t you be a little more original ? Your attitude, contrary to what you seem to think, is typical, typical, typical.

If the West is so corrupt why don’t you pack your bags and go to some mosque where you can lick your wounds ? And be sure to apologize to the turbaned ones.  Your’e sorry the “imperilstic” monsters have ravaged thier good lives , and been so cruel !

Leave it to you to take a solid item of common sense and shatter it into a million little peices of rationalizations .

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Posted: 17 June 2008 04:26 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]  
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Dee - 17 June 2008 07:36 PM

Hey arildno—you sound like my kind of non-passive, shoot -from-the-hip guy ! As far as I’m concerned those who stand up and protest the “slandering ” of Muslim people for blasting the whole Islamic culture, are beating a dead horse. That’s because Islam is Islam—and everything that goes with it, and you can’t argue by rationalizing and making excuses for what is inhumane . And by standards of modern life as it is today, Islam IS inhumane.

It isn’t our place in the world to run around “shooting from the hip” everyone we arbitrarily decide is acting inhumanely.  Also, there is a difference between “making excuses for” and noting the ral world circumstances and histories that are critical to understanding the nature of the threat radical Islam poses and how to protect our ountry effectively You don’t protect America by trying to continue running the musli world from afar.  I can’t speak for you, but I wasn’t a happy camper when planes crashed into those towers on 9/11.  This may be difficult for you to grasp Dee, but not all of us would like to see that sort of thing happen again.  Some of us are so concerned about the threat, that we have the intellectual fortitude to take things seriously and if it comes down to changing how the US behaves in the muslim world, too…fucking…bad.  Time to grow up Dee.  The real world doesn’t fit into the caricature you like to pretend it does.

The very idea you would honestly use a phrase like “shoot from the hip” shows how incredibly little you care about this problem.  If you had real convictions, you’d care enough to spend time reseaching to try to find out the hitories of the region and the sorts of political, social, and economic conditions that bred the anti-America sentiment there instead of mindlessly wanting to prance around the globe launching missies “from the hip”.

Sure, there are plenty of “changed” Muslims who nevertheless claim to love thier religion at the same time they want to live like others who are free from religious restictions—-but they are hypocrisy in two shoes. We might ask ourselves just what side they’d take if it came down to a Muslim- West war. Jihad is a Muslim fight—-what side are “moderate” Muslims going to be on ?

Jihad means holy struggle, actually.  Scholars like to conceal that sort of information in books ‘n such.  Places someone like you would never find them. 

And Tavish—-your views are an example of the views of the people I’ve been talking about . As far as I’m concerned youv’e kicked yourself in your own crotch by trying to put other religions on the same level as Islam. Can’t you be a little more original ? Your attitude, contrary to what you seem to think, is typical, typical, typical.

Original?  Shall I just imagine stupid shit out of thin air like you do Dee?  Would that be origina nough for ya?  Hre’s a thought, go read the part in the OT where believers are commanded to slaughter an entire town of ppl if so much as one person there is seen praying to another God.  Or how about justifications for murdering children or disobedient wives or endorsing slavery or self mutilation?  Are you honestly so dim as to think the same things you are bitching about in Islam can’t be found everywhere else too?! 

The religion isn’t what is causing ppl to act this way.  If it were, we’d have 1.2 billion radical Islamists setting ied’s on roadsides across the globe.  But we don’t see that.  And yes, my attitude it typical of anyone who finds it prudent under such real threats to bother investigating the problem hoenstly and to study the CAUSE of the problem as to make sure they have agrasp on how to STOP the problem from progressing and how to work towards regressing that issue.  What you seem to continuously advocate is literally murdering 1.2 billion ppl purely for being muslim.  And you have a problem with THEIR moral code?  Talk about bing a hypocrite in two shoes. 

If the West is so corrupt why don’t you pack your bags and go to some mosque where you can lick your wounds ? And be sure to apologize to the turbaned ones.  Your’e sorry the “imperilstic” monsters have ravaged thier good lives , and been so cruel !

Why would I leave?  It wasn’t me who voted for these policies or the fools who decided to throw out our Constitution.  That was ppl ike YOU Dee.  Are you grown up enough to spare me the idiotic remakrs about how I should go off to my mosque and put my turban on yet?  Do you have any idea how stupid you sound?  That’s as beligerantly childish as it gets kiddo.  Your attempt top use that as a slur against me shows you for the irrational, hate filled bigot you are.  Might as well call me a worthless nigger or a dirty spic or an illiterate wetback while yet at it Dee.  If anyone should gt the hell outta America, it’s you.

YOU should leave as it was your ignorance that contributed to the clusterfuck America is in now.  YOU voted for the ppl who sought only to rip our liberties and freedoms to shreds and decided they were above the legal process.  YOU were the idiot who voted for the ppl who decided it was a good idea to let 4000 of our youg men and women get killed in Iraq so we could control their oil.  YOU are the reason our military is so stretched out that we can’t even help citizens drowning as our cities flood.  YOU are the reason our econmy is in the shitter and we are entering the biggest recession since the Great Depression.  YOU are the reason al Qaeda is growing every single day and recruiting more young males with promises of another 9/11.  YOU are what has made America vulnerable.  How many more Americans must die, how many more freedoms must Americans be stripped of, how many more scandles must we endure as our economy sinks before YOU take some responsibility for the votes YOU cast in 2000 and 2004? 

It was you, and ppl as dim-wittedly like minded as you, who have done more to destroy what America stands for than any critic of the neocons ever has.  You are the ignorant disgrace to America.  And as such, if anyone is to be kicked out, it would be you and those you voted for out of blind ideology instead of reason and intelligence.

At some point you have to become a responsible citizen and start caring about the threats to America enough where you strap on some intellectual honesty and go out in search of REALITY, no matter how unpleasant it may be when you finally find it, and have the COURAGE to call a spade a spade and do whatever necessary to speak out to cull that threat.  IF you ever gave a fuck about America, “IF” being the operative word, you wouldn’t be spewing the same idiocy that has sought to destroy everything she stands for over the last 8 years.

[ Edited: 17 June 2008 04:32 PM by tavishhill2003]
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Posted: 17 June 2008 10:47 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]  
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tavishhill2003 - 17 June 2008 08:26 PM
Dee - 17 June 2008 07:36 PM

Hey arildno—you sound like my kind of non-passive, shoot -from-the-hip guy ! As far as I’m concerned those who stand up and protest the “slandering ” of Muslim people for blasting the whole Islamic culture, are beating a dead horse. That’s because Islam is Islam—and everything that goes with it, and you can’t argue by rationalizing and making excuses for what is inhumane . And by standards of modern life as it is today, Islam IS inhumane.

It isn’t our place in the world to run around “shooting from the hip” everyone we arbitrarily decide is acting inhumanely.  Also, there is a difference between “making excuses for” and noting the ral world circumstances and histories that are critical to understanding the nature of the threat radical Islam poses and how to protect our ountry effectively You don’t protect America by trying to continue running the musli world from afar.  I can’t speak for you, but I wasn’t a happy camper when planes crashed into those towers on 9/11.  This may be difficult for you to grasp Dee, but not all of us would like to see that sort of thing happen again.  Some of us are so concerned about the threat, that we have the intellectual fortitude to take things seriously and if it comes down to changing how the US behaves in the muslim world, too…fucking…bad.  Time to grow up Dee.  The real world doesn’t fit into the caricature you like to pretend it does.

The very idea you would honestly use a phrase like “shoot from the hip” shows how incredibly little you care about this problem.  If you had real convictions, you’d care enough to spend time reseaching to try to find out the hitories of the region and the sorts of political, social, and economic conditions that bred the anti-America sentiment there instead of mindlessly wanting to prance around the globe launching missies “from the hip”.

Sure, there are plenty of “changed” Muslims who nevertheless claim to love thier religion at the same time they want to live like others who are free from religious restictions—-but they are hypocrisy in two shoes. We might ask ourselves just what side they’d take if it came down to a Muslim- West war. Jihad is a Muslim fight—-what side are “moderate” Muslims going to be on ?

Jihad means holy struggle, actually.  Scholars like to conceal that sort of information in books ‘n such.  Places someone like you would never find them. 

And Tavish—-your views are an example of the views of the people I’ve been talking about . As far as I’m concerned youv’e kicked yourself in your own crotch by trying to put other religions on the same level as Islam. Can’t you be a little more original ? Your attitude, contrary to what you seem to think, is typical, typical, typical.

Original?  Shall I just imagine stupid shit out of thin air like you do Dee?  Would that be origina nough for ya?  Hre’s a thought, go read the part in the OT where believers are commanded to slaughter an entire town of ppl if so much as one person there is seen praying to another God.  Or how about justifications for murdering children or disobedient wives or endorsing slavery or self mutilation?  Are you honestly so dim as to think the same things you are bitching about in Islam can’t be found everywhere else too?! 

The religion isn’t what is causing ppl to act this way.  If it were, we’d have 1.2 billion radical Islamists setting ied’s on roadsides across the globe.  But we don’t see that.  And yes, my attitude it typical of anyone who finds it prudent under such real threats to bother investigating the problem hoenstly and to study the CAUSE of the problem as to make sure they have agrasp on how to STOP the problem from progressing and how to work towards regressing that issue.  What you seem to continuously advocate is literally murdering 1.2 billion ppl purely for being muslim.  And you have a problem with THEIR moral code?  Talk about bing a hypocrite in two shoes. 

If the West is so corrupt why don’t you pack your bags and go to some mosque where you can lick your wounds ? And be sure to apologize to the turbaned ones.  Your’e sorry the “imperilstic” monsters have ravaged thier good lives , and been so cruel !

Why would I leave?  It wasn’t me who voted for these policies or the fools who decided to throw out our Constitution.  That was ppl ike YOU Dee.  Are you grown up enough to spare me the idiotic remakrs about how I should go off to my mosque and put my turban on yet?  Do you have any idea how stupid you sound?  That’s as beligerantly childish as it gets kiddo.  Your attempt top use that as a slur against me shows you for the irrational, hate filled bigot you are.  Might as well call me a worthless nigger or a dirty spic or an illiterate wetback while yet at it Dee.  If anyone should gt the hell outta America, it’s you.

YOU should leave as it was your ignorance that contributed to the clusterfuck America is in now.  YOU voted for the ppl who sought only to rip our liberties and freedoms to shreds and decided they were above the legal process.  YOU were the idiot who voted for the ppl who decided it was a good idea to let 4000 of our youg men and women get killed in Iraq so we could control their oil.  YOU are the reason our military is so stretched out that we can’t even help citizens drowning as our cities flood.  YOU are the reason our econmy is in the shitter and we are entering the biggest recession since the Great Depression.  YOU are the reason al Qaeda is growing every single day and recruiting more young males with promises of another 9/11.  YOU are what has made America vulnerable.  How many more Americans must die, how many more freedoms must Americans be stripped of, how many more scandles must we endure as our economy sinks before YOU take some responsibility for the votes YOU cast in 2000 and 2004? 

It was you, and ppl as dim-wittedly like minded as you, who have done more to destroy what America stands for than any critic of the neocons ever has.  You are the ignorant disgrace to America.  And as such, if anyone is to be kicked out, it would be you and those you voted for out of blind ideology instead of reason and intelligence.

At some point you have to become a responsible citizen and start caring about the threats to America enough where you strap on some intellectual honesty and go out in search of REALITY, no matter how unpleasant it may be when you finally find it, and have the COURAGE to call a spade a spade and do whatever necessary to speak out to cull that threat.  IF you ever gave a fuck about America, “IF” being the operative word, you wouldn’t be spewing the same idiocy that has sought to destroy everything she stands for over the last 8 years.


Yes !  You are right ! I admitt it ! It was ME who did all those things ! I started World War 11 also .

By the way, oh ye of great insight , how the hell do you know who I voted for ?  You got it all figured out, don’t you ?

Why don’t you go to Hollywood ? They thrive on characters like you .

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Posted: 17 June 2008 11:03 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]  
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By the way: we were susposed to be talking about Islam and how much of an actual threat it was to the free world——NOT about me . (Dee) . Once again you’ve turned a worthy and timely conversation on something important and turned into a rant against me . Shut up and let others discuss this subject—-; something we are very concerned about .

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Posted: 18 June 2008 12:10 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]  
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Oh please, as if a right wing nutjob like yourself would have voted for either Kerry or Gore Dee.  Who the hell do ya think yer kidding, lol?

I notice you did not offer a counter point for why ppl like you are welcomeinto the UnitedStates of America.  You aren’t.  Those who wish to destroy the Constitution or defend those who overtly seek its destructon in hopes of attaining all the power in Washington ae not welcome here.  That’s the onl rules you have to agree to abide by by living here.  You live by our laws and pledge allegiance to the Constitution.  Why do you hate the Constitution so much Dee?  Just go live elsewhere if you think it is a worthless peice of paper as the ppl you vote for do. 

And this wasn’t a worthy discussion.  Haven’t you noticed that no one else is entertainning your stupid threads, which ALL are about the exact same claim?  And you aren’t willing to even have a real discussion on this topic, so stop trying to act as if that were the case.  If you were, you’d offer counterpoints for the facts I’ve laid out.  Instead, you use ad hominem attacks based on neocon nonsense, failed logic, ad a profound disregard for US and world history to insulate you from hearin any ideas that don’t involve genocide against muslims, which is what you always seem to be advocating.

Where did you get your genocidal rage Dee?  Watch a Nazi propaganda film one too many times as a child?  What makes you any different than Hitler or America any different than Nazi Germany if we go around murdering, imprisoning, or enslaving muslims based entirely on the fact they are muslims?  Hitler and his followers were stupid enough to assume they were right all the time no matter and nothing they could possibly do would be unjustified.  And look where that got him.  Now you want to go down that same type of road and drag America with you.


And my post wasn’t a rant against you dipshit, it was me answering the questions YOU POSED TO ME.  Maybe if you d the cognitive reasoning abilities beyond a 3rd grader you would be capable of grasping this simple fact.  YOU asked me a series of questions regarding my “typical attitude” and asserted that I was somehow advocating Islam or any religio for that matter and was someone who describes Islam as a peaceful religion.  More delusions pulled squarely from your ass.  Then, you aserted that because I am critical of foreign plicy that I should therefore be exiled out of the country sinc eI didn’t mindlessly follow the demonstrably false claims ppl like you repeatedly make, as if repeating it made it true.  I responded to that by pointing out your ass backwards loic in that regard. 

And you have the nerve to now get pissy because I responded to the questions YOU asked me to respond to?  Are you kidding me?!  I didn’t just rush into the thread and start pointing out how big of an idiot you are as I certainly could have Dee.  If you have the time to sound out the long words in my first post in the thread, you may notice they aren’t about you, they are a detailed account of the realities your original queston in the OP demands. 

You espous foreign policy ignorance equaled by far to many I’m afraid.  You offer advice to our leaders yet youourself have absolutely ZERO understanding of any foreign policy issues today.  You rolly couldn’t even name the leader of Iran if put on the spot (just as McCain couldn’t).  You prolly have no idea what the history of our invovlment in the rest of the world consists of do you?

The biggest enemy to democracy and to America herself is not those of us with the passionate concern to spend countless hours looking into the REAL causes of such threats and to turn to experience experts and scholarly opinion.  The real enemies to America are those who are willing to give up what it truly means to be a American so they can pursue their blind genocidal hatred for other cultures and races. 

If you think critcizing American foreign policyis grounds for exile from the US, you are beyond all help Dee.  You just don’t get what America is all about or why so many ppl have died in our legitimate wars to bring us these freedoms.  Your brain is apparentlyjust not capable of comprehending the seriousness of the radical Islamic threat and/or the nuanced histories and policies that have shaped that ideology over the years.  Without even attemting to understand the mindset of these ppl, how can you possibly imagine you have the expertise to dictate to the rest of us that genocide is the only answer?  That is exactly what is sounds like you are pushing for.  Adolf would be so proud of you Dee.

If you were ever really concerned about radical Islam, you’d put more effort into learning the facts instead of just spending 5 mins memorizing the talking points coming out of the neocons who can’t even tell you the difference between Sunni an Shia (not that you are competent enough to make such a distinction either however).

Now, if you have a counter argument to make other than posting your stupid links to fellow rit wing nutjobs who have track records of being prfusely wrong about everything relatd to the middle east, by all means post it.  Otherwise, let this thread die as all your others do.

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Posted: 18 June 2008 12:49 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]  
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tavishhill2003 - 18 June 2008 04:10 AM

Oh please, as if a right wing nutjob like yourself would have voted for either Kerry or Gore Dee.  Who the hell do ya think yer kidding, lol?

I notice you did not offer a counter point for why ppl like you are welcomeinto the UnitedStates of America.  You aren’t.  Those who wish to destroy the Constitution or defend those who overtly seek its destructon in hopes of attaining all the power in Washington ae not welcome here.  That’s the onl rules you have to agree to abide by by living here.  You live by our laws and pledge allegiance to the Constitution.  Why do you hate the Constitution so much Dee?  Just go live elsewhere if you think it is a worthless peice of paper as the ppl you vote for do. 

And this wasn’t a worthy discussion.  Haven’t you noticed that no one else is entertainning your stupid threads, which ALL are about the exact same claim?  And you aren’t willing to even have a real discussion on this topic, so stop trying to act as if that were the case.  If you were, you’d offer counterpoints for the facts I’ve laid out.  Instead, you use ad hominem attacks based on neocon nonsense, failed logic, ad a profound disregard for US and world history to insulate you from hearin any ideas that don’t involve genocide against muslims, which is what you always seem to be advocating.

Where did you get your genocidal rage Dee?  Watch a Nazi propaganda film one too many times as a child?  What makes you any different than Hitler or America any different than Nazi Germany if we go around murdering, imprisoning, or enslaving muslims based entirely on the fact they are muslims?  Hitler and his followers were stupid enough to assume they were right all the time no matter and nothing they could possibly do would be unjustified.  And look where that got him.  Now you want to go down that same type of road and drag America with you.


And my post wasn’t a rant against you dipshit, it was me answering the questions YOU POSED TO ME.  Maybe if you d the cognitive reasoning abilities beyond a 3rd grader you would be capable of grasping this simple fact.  YOU asked me a series of questions regarding my “typical attitude” and asserted that I was somehow advocating Islam or any religio for that matter and was someone who describes Islam as a peaceful religion.  More delusions pulled squarely from your ass.  Then, you aserted that because I am critical of foreign plicy that I should therefore be exiled out of the country sinc eI didn’t mindlessly follow the demonstrably false claims ppl like you repeatedly make, as if repeating it made it true.  I responded to that by pointing out your ass backwards loic in that regard. 

And you have the nerve to now get pissy because I responded to the questions YOU asked me to respond to?  Are you kidding me?!  I didn’t just rush into the thread and start pointing out how big of an idiot you are as I certainly could have Dee.  If you have the time to sound out the long words in my first post in the thread, you may notice they aren’t about you, they are a detailed account of the realities your original queston in the OP demands. 

You espous foreign policy ignorance equaled by far to many I’m afraid.  You offer advice to our leaders yet youourself have absolutely ZERO understanding of any foreign policy issues today.  You rolly couldn’t even name the leader of Iran if put on the spot (just as McCain couldn’t).  You prolly have no idea what the history of our invovlment in the rest of the world consists of do you?

The biggest enemy to democracy and to America herself is not those of us with the passionate concern to spend countless hours looking into the REAL causes of such threats and to turn to experience experts and scholarly opinion.  The real enemies to America are those who are willing to give up what it truly means to be a American so they can pursue their blind genocidal hatred for other cultures and races. 

If you think critcizing American foreign policyis grounds for exile from the US, you are beyond all help Dee.  You just don’t get what America is all about or why so many ppl have died in our legitimate wars to bring us these freedoms.  Your brain is apparentlyjust not capable of comprehending the seriousness of the radical Islamic threat and/or the nuanced histories and policies that have shaped that ideology over the years.  Without even attemting to understand the mindset of these ppl, how can you possibly imagine you have the expertise to dictate to the rest of us that genocide is the only answer?  That is exactly what is sounds like you are pushing for.  Adolf would be so proud of you Dee.

If you were ever really concerned about radical Islam, you’d put more effort into learning the facts instead of just spending 5 mins memorizing the talking points coming out of the neocons who can’t even tell you the difference between Sunni an Shia (not that you are competent enough to make such a distinction either however).

Now, if you have a counter argument to make other than posting your stupid links to fellow rit wing nutjobs who have track records of being prfusely wrong about everything relatd to the middle east, by all means post it.  Otherwise, let this thread die as all your others do.


I have no idea what you are talking about Tavish. Stop lying and making crazy suppositions about me.  And quit turning decent discussions into some rambling hatchet job on me.  Quit speaking for others too. That is lowly and unacceptable on this message board. If you don’t like my choice of subject that is too bad. We in this country and Europe need more commitment and interest in these subjects. I believe they are truely important. I know they are. Who are you to say otherwise ? How long have you been tuned in to these concerns ? I stand hand-in-hand with the people who write books on the subject, and give lectures , etc. etc.  I am interested in a vast amount of subjects; especially those listed on this forum . I’m not here to please you. You have your ideas on what you think is important , I have mine ,and whether you realize it or not, your expressed attitudes are repeticious and fanactical. I am not interested in your opinions on what I write. I want to exchange thoughts and views with people who are NOT prejudiced against me. Not you.    Goodbye.

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Posted: 18 June 2008 08:53 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]  
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tavishhill2003 - 17 June 2008 06:26 PM
arildno - 17 June 2008 03:57 PM
tavishhill2003 - 17 June 2008 03:27 PM

US foreign policy and geopolitics has put the muslim world into a positoin where they literally have no other means to air any grievances they might have.

Even more nonsense.
They could get on with their lives, be productive, rather than murdering others.

They are disgusting, twisted creatures, most of them.

So you are saying “most” as in more than 50% of the 1.2 billion muslims alive today are in fact “disgusting, twisted creatures”?

Yup

  That’s quite a claim to make regarding 600 million ppl you’ve never met.

Not really.
I consider ALL childfucker worshippers and mass murderer admirers to be disgusting, twisted creatures, Muslims or not.

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Posted: 18 June 2008 09:05 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]  
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tavishhill2003 - 17 June 2008 08:26 PM
Dee - 17 June 2008 07:36 PM

Hey arildno—you sound like my kind of non-passive, shoot -from-the-hip guy ! As far as I’m concerned those who stand up and protest the “slandering ” of Muslim people for blasting the whole Islamic culture, are beating a dead horse. That’s because Islam is Islam—and everything that goes with it, and you can’t argue by rationalizing and making excuses for what is inhumane . And by standards of modern life as it is today, Islam IS inhumane.

It isn’t our place in the world to run around “shooting from the hip” everyone we arbitrarily decide is acting inhumanely.

Aah, here Tavish shows his true colours.
He thinks it is merely ARBITRARY, i.e, nonsensical and without foundation to designate mass murder and childfucking as evil.

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Posted: 18 June 2008 10:09 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]  
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Dee - 18 June 2008 04:49 AM


I have no idea what you are talking about Tavish. Stop lying and making crazy suppositions about me.  And quit turning decent discussions into some rambling hatchet job on me.

Excuse me?!  You said this:


“And Tavish—-your views are an example of the views of the people I’ve been talking about .”

^^^That’s you making e discussion about ME and attacking my views by trying to attach them to views I don’t agree with such as the ones I pointed out before.  It is not about the topic at hand in your original post in any way, shape, or form.  Subsequently, you asked questions like:


“Can’t you be a little more original ?”

And you expect me not to respond and answer your question?  And nother question:

“If the West is so corrupt why don’t you pack your bags and go to some mosque where you can lick your wounds ?”

And you expect me not to answer your question to that as well?  Then you make such an infantile remark as to suggest that because I don’tagree with US foreign policy or your irrational xenphobia, I must therefore be muslim: by making commets about how I should apologize to ppl wearing turbans and should go to my mosque and leave the US.

Quit speaking for others too. That is lowly and unacceptable on this message board. If you don’t like my choice of subject that is too bad.

And if you don’t like the holes I’ve poked in the fantasy land you think we live in, that’s too bad as well. 

We in this country and Europe need more commitment and interest in these subjects. I believe they are truely important. I know they are. Who are you to say otherwise ?

If you ever actually gave a fuck, you wouldn’t refuse to look at th facts that don’t support your narrow view of terrorism.  You wouldn’t be so stup[id as to ust take whatever the right wing morons who were wrong about Iraq, wrong about how to handle al Qaeda, and are now wrong about Iran say.  You would read up on the region’s history.  You’d look at the arguments laid out by scholars discussing the region.  You’d go find as many different viewpoints as possible and base your conclusions on facts, not your own xenophbia which is exactly what you’ve done whether you’ll freely admit it or not. 

How long have you been tuned in to these concerns ? I stand hand-in-hand with the people who write books on the subject, and give lectures , etc. etc.

You stand hand in hand with the ppl who lied about Iraq, who lie about Iran today, and who don’t have a fucking clue about the muslim world.  The same right wingers who said IRaq would be a cake walk and they’d treat us as liberators AFTER assuring us that Saddam and bin Laden were good pals.  If you knew anything about the regand the way Saddam ran his regime, you’d have known this was all complete bullshit from the beginning. 

Why aren’t you looking at what the intelligence experts have to say?  Why dn’t you look at Mike Scheuer? Or Scott Ritter?  Or read the 9/11 Commission report?  Or see what those nournalists ho actuallylive in these war torn countries have to say and show footage of in their reports?  You prolly have never even heard of ppl lie Robert Fisk have you?  No, because you haven’t looked into the facts of the matter.  You haven’t looked outside your little mental box for the answers to why these ppl hate the US and are willing to go this far in attacking it.  IF you cared at all, you’d have done at least that much and you flat out haven’t.

I am interested in a vast amount of subjects; especially those listed on this forum . I’m not here to please you.


Obviously.  You are apparently hee to try to convince the world we should all hate all muslims and you seem to want to push for exiling all of them from the US, holding hem all in prison camps, or outrig genocide.  When do you post on anything else besides peddling your irrational hatred for 1.2 billion ppl yu’ve never met and know nothing about?

You have your ideas on what you think is important , I have mine ,and whether you realize it or not, your expressed attitudes are repeticious and fanactical.

Repeticious, yes.  Fanatical, no.  I’m not the fanatic running around making countless threads about all muslims are evil hate filled terrorists and how we should kick em all out of the US because you hate the Constitution so much.  I’m not the one pushing a viewpoint with complete disregard for the evidence that contradicts it because I want to presrve my caricature of what US foreign policy should look like. 

I am not interested in your opinions on what I write.

Then don’t ask question specifcally intended toet a response from me.  Its not that complicated.  Whe you make absurd claim about how I should get out of America beacuse ppl like you don’t like anyone criticising their govt or when you ask questions like I quoted above, you are ASKING me for my opinions on the matter.  If you aren’t interested i hearig them, don’t ask me about them.  Is this concept of solicitcing responses really THAT difficult for your mind to gapple with Dee?

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