Sam Harris

Today I started reading the Quran all the way through.  Not sure how long it will take.

But, in chapter 2 I already found my favorite verse:

Do not write a book and say that God wrote it.

Now that is a truth to live by, if only everyone would have heeded such wise advice.

it is vs 78:

(78) Therefore woe be unto those who write the Scripture with their hands and then say, “This is from Allah,” that they may purchase a small gain therewith.

Since it makes sense, I surely must be taking it out of context.  Should the prophet have put down his pen right here and wrote no further?

thinker35 - 20 June 2008 09:25 PM

it is vs 78:

(78) Therefore woe be unto those who write the Scripture with their hands and then say, “This is from Allah,” that they may purchase a small gain therewith.

Since it makes sense, I surely must be taking it out of context.  Should the prophet have put down his pen right here and wrote no further?

Muhammad did not write the Qur’an - he was illiterate.  It was communicated orally, and others wrote it.

Bruce Burleson - 21 June 2008 03:13 AM

thinker35 - 20 June 2008 09:25 PM

it is vs 78:

(78) Therefore woe be unto those who write the Scripture with their hands and then say, “This is from Allah,” that they may purchase a small gain therewith.

Since it makes sense, I surely must be taking it out of context.  Should the prophet have put down his pen right here and wrote no further?

Muhammad did not write the Qur’an - he was illiterate.  It was communicated orally, and others wrote it.

Then his scribes should have put their pens down and he should have shut his mouth? I would think so.

Stay Well
Wot

Say Thinker35, can you show me with the use of facts (not skepticism) why I am supposed to believe that the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) authored the Qur’an and not God?  If you can do so, I’ll think that you are indeed a thinker, and if you can’t, I’ll think your a stooge.  Hell if you can show me that the Prophet (peace be upon him) authored the Qur’an, I’ll even sign up for whatever you got today.

I cannot prove that God did not write the Quran. 

To contribute to my education, since I just started reading the Quran last week, please contribute whatever proof you have that God or Muhammad wrote anything.  Because I am a thinker does not mean I ALREADY know everything.  I am open to whatever facts you want to share.

Can you prove that each of Muhammad’s friends did not write it?
Can you prove that each of Muhammad’s wives did not write it?
Can you prove that each of Muhammad’s neighbors did not write it?
Can you prove that each of Muhammad’s countrymen did not write it?

thinker35 - 22 June 2008 05:27 PM

I cannot prove that God did not write the Quran. 

To contribute to my education, since I just started reading the Quran last week, please contribute whatever proof you have that God or Muhammad wrote anything.  Because I am a thinker does not mean I ALREADY know everything.  I am open to whatever facts you want to share.

Can you prove that each of Muhammad’s friends did not write it?
Can you prove that each of Muhammad’s wives did not write it?
Can you prove that each of Muhammad’s neighbors did not write it?
Can you prove that each of Muhammad’s countrymen did not write it?

We can speculate anything, but the likelihood of our conclusions being true is determined by how well they measure up against the facts.  There is not a single historical account suggesting that anyone wrote the Qur’an.  Hence, it would be a great conspiracy indeed if your wild speculations were true.  Personally, I don’t like conspiracy theories.  Anyway, you need to understand the beauty of the Qur’an as well as its transmission and preservation to appreciate why believing anyone in particular wrote it is not feasible.  Granted, english translations, although moving, are not as powerful as the Qur’an as it is in Arabic, which is the only real language of the Qur’an.  There are a number of resources I can refer you to while trying to understand the Qur’an in order to help you realize it’s power, if you care.

Take care.

We can speculate anything, but the likelihood of our conclusions being true is determined by how well they measure up against the facts.  There is not a single historical account suggesting that anyone wrote the Qur’an.  Hence, it would be a great conspiracy indeed if your wild speculations were true.  Personally, I don’t like conspiracy theories.  Anyway, you need to understand the beauty of the Qur’an as well as its transmission and preservation to appreciate why believing anyone in particular wrote it is not feasible.  Granted, english translations, although moving, are not as powerful as the Qur’an as it is in Arabic, which is the only real language of the Qur’an.  There are a number of resources I can refer you to while trying to understand the Qur’an in order to help you realize it’s power, if you care.

Take care.

I do care to understand the Quran from the perspective of those who believe it, so I am willing to look at the resources you mention.  First, what English translation should I read?  Are any better than others?

thinker35 - 24 June 2008 01:10 AM

We can speculate anything, but the likelihood of our conclusions being true is determined by how well they measure up against the facts.  There is not a single historical account suggesting that anyone wrote the Qur’an.  Hence, it would be a great conspiracy indeed if your wild speculations were true.  Personally, I don’t like conspiracy theories.  Anyway, you need to understand the beauty of the Qur’an as well as its transmission and preservation to appreciate why believing anyone in particular wrote it is not feasible.  Granted, english translations, although moving, are not as powerful as the Qur’an as it is in Arabic, which is the only real language of the Qur’an.  There are a number of resources I can refer you to while trying to understand the Qur’an in order to help you realize it’s power, if you care.

Take care.

I do care to understand the Quran from the perspective of those who believe it, so I am willing to look at the resources you mention.  First, what English translation should I read?  Are any better than others?

The Majestic Qur’an by Translation Committee Abdal Hakim Murad, Mostafa al-Badawi and Uthman Hutchinson

The Essential Koran: The Heart of Islam by Thomas Cleary

How the Qur’an was compiled by Hamza Yusuf: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zr_XlYEFgFc