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Posted: 18 December 2005 02:59 AM   [ Ignore ]  
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From Mexico City today, "the parents, grandparents and aunts of a 7-month-old and 13-year-old hacked the baby to death and fatally stoned the teenager this month after they became convinced the girls were demons or possessed by the devil.  Judge Ana Maria Raya Razo said they had acknowledged killing the girls to save themselves from demons."

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Posted: 18 December 2005 10:05 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]  
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That’s f***ing sick. Here’s some more.

A JUDGE ordered eight adults to be committed to a prison psychiatric facility for 40 years for the grisly exorcism and murder of a 7-month-old baby and a 13-year-old girl in a remote mountain community in western Mexico.

The baby was cut to pieces and the teenager was stoned to death by their family in Guanajuato state. Officials say the killers included the victims’ parents and grandparents who were convinced the girls were possessed by the devil. The ritual killings were accompanied by the sacrifice of farm animals.

A ninth suspect, an aunt described as the alleged instigator of the killings, has been confined at a psychiatric hospital, reportedly in an even worse state of mental illness.

Judge Ana Maria Raya Razo, who ordered the family’s incarceration, said that members of the extended family had admitted carrying out the killings. They said they were convinced that they had to save themselves from demons.

“The psychiatric testimony showed that they were suffering from a delusional psychotic state,” she said. “They said they had the faces of monkeys, that they had demons inside.”

Police were tipped off by an anonymous phone call. They travelled on foot — the only way to the three-house hamlet where the family lived — and found the baby girl mutilated and the body of Juana Perez Frausto tied to a stake and battered to death.

About ten members of the same extended family of about 30 were found locked into a house, where they had been confined for three days, apparently because they, too, were suspected of being possessed.

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Posted: 19 December 2005 02:53 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]  
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Religion is a mental illness

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Posted: 19 December 2005 02:59 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]  
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[quote author=“MrMody”]Religion is a mental illness

It’s quite a leap from general religion to cutting up a baby into pieces.

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Posted: 19 December 2005 04:01 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]  
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[quote author=“paynedaniel”]It’s quite a leap from general religion to cutting up a baby into pieces.

But religion provides a substantial amount of the underpinnings.  It is religion that causes people to believe that demons are “real”.  Without this actual belief that demons are real, and that they can inhabit people, this event would likely not have happened.

This isn’t some vague anthropic principal, or a mere cultural tradition at work.  This is the result of literal belief.

What I find suspect is that the supposedly moderate religious folks are very reluctant to condemn this sort of stuff in clear and categorical terms.

-Matt

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Posted: 15 January 2006 01:31 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]  
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[quote author=“psiconoclast”][quote author=“paynedaniel”]It’s quite a leap from general religion to cutting up a baby into pieces.

But religion provides a substantial amount of the underpinnings.  It is religion that causes people to believe that demons are “real”.


Maybe, but what if they’d decided they were some other form of monster? Demons are just a form of monster. I suppose religion gets credit for the form, but monsters are just manifestations of fear, and reacting to fear in such an extreme way has a lot more to do with psychology than religion. Given the extent to which religion shapes our culture, and given the fact that religions deal in large part with fear, we should expect some of these incidents (psychotic?) to take on religious characteristics. I don’t think it’s reasonable to give religion exclusive, or even primary credit. Even if we do, we have to keep in mind that religion is merely a collection of ideas that humans created. “It’s” not really anything.

We iconoclastic skeptic types need to be far more disciplined than we seem to be about reifying religion (et al).

Byron

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“We say, ‘Love your brother…’ We don’t say it really, but… Well we don’t literally say it. We don’t really, literally mean it. No, we don’t believe it either, but… But that message should be clear.”—David St. Hubbins

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Posted: 15 January 2006 02:22 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]  
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Chances are they were Catholic.  And their actions seemed based on religious beliefs to me.  The article doesn’t mention it explicitly, but no article is going to say that.  The animal sacrifice part is curious.

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Posted: 18 January 2006 12:03 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]  
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[quote author=“treblinka”][quote author=“SitDogmaSit”]Chances are they were Catholic.  And their actions seemed based on religious beliefs to me.  The article doesn’t mention it explicitly, but no article is going to say that.  The animal sacrifice part is curious.

That is speculation. They could have been hindu or pentecostals.
I am convinced they were not Catholic.


So . . . the idea that they may have been Catholic is speculation, but not the idea that they weren’t?

How exactly does that work?

Byron

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“We say, ‘Love your brother…’ We don’t say it really, but… Well we don’t literally say it. We don’t really, literally mean it. No, we don’t believe it either, but… But that message should be clear.”—David St. Hubbins

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Posted: 18 January 2006 12:28 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]  
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[quote author=“treblinka”]
Catholicism is a religion of peace and harmony. I have never read of Catholics doing this sort of thing.

Let me guess:

If they turn out to be Catholics, they aren’t True Catholics (TM).

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Posted: 19 January 2006 01:22 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]  
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treb - judge not lest ye be judged.  You are a sinner and should not be throwing stones.  Who are you to say Kennedy and Kerry are not true catholics?  Are you really the Pope?  Or God Himself?  Shame on you.

Gosh that was fun.  I can see why this christian religion is so popular.

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Posted: 19 January 2006 02:33 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]  
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Treb, what about abram and isaac?They figure quite prominently in your liturgy.Unfortunately for the mexican baby,the voice of god was too late to prevent his sacrifice, it was never there.

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