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I am a Muslim immigrant :
Posted: 12 July 2008 03:24 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]  
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Dee - 10 July 2008 10:24 PM
burt - 10 July 2008 05:28 PM
Dee - 10 July 2008 04:43 AM

When it comes to understanding just what the general situation is concerning Muslim ( I’m talking here mostly about the radicals, but not entirely. It is shocking to realize how the line between radical and “moderate” can be blurred ) attitude towards “unbelievers”, thier progress and activity in countries that are not Muslim,and thier religious imposition and demands ... we should focus on one word , and that word should be “PERSPECTIVE “

Before you settle on an opinion, cave in to your emotions,judge according to what other aquainances tell you ,or what you see in a few Muslims or some other impression—-remember this : gain perspective and you will find the facts.

There ARE the experts, knowledgable scholars of the subject,foremost interpreters in America and other countries etc. Why don’t you look into what they have to say before you judge ?

And I’ll ask you to remember that what I wrote in my first post were NOT my own words but something I quoted from another source. That post isn’t about me, it is about immigrants . Take a deep breath and consider what is being said. Decide to be possitive and learn.

I tend to base my opinions on what I have read or seen in a large number of sources, leavened by a large dollup of personal experience. 

Of course, we all know the horrible fate of the US as it absorbed all those uncivilized Irish immigrants a few years ago (Roman Catholics, papists all, bent on destroying our democracy and making us subservient to Rome).  Why, they even made a movie about how horrible they were (Gangs of New York).  Even worse, some of their descendants even made it to the White House!


I supose there have been many “immigration conflicts “of the past in the USA , but none of them were on the same scale as the United Islamic Sprawl that is taking place today. And no matter what happened in the past, it is what is happening today that matters. I take it you are pointing out the Irish story as an example of how needless our fears etc. can be when it comes to “foreigners”?

We should realize and admitt that immigration has become a huge problem today. For a country that seems to be so hated, the USA seems to be the prime destination for immigrants ! Do you think it is nonsense or unfair to say that so many of these people are here to get what they can from America, whether they respect her or not ? It’s as though they want to reap a harvest they never sowed. Many of America’s population will be cut short in one way or another just so a foreinger can “have a better life ” ?  I don’t know about your town but over here in Seattle and vicinaty it is chuck-full of people with accents who are getting jobs the regular citizens might have gotten . I know a man with four children who was turned down for State assisstance while a room full of Mexicans and thier pregnate wives are granted help right away. Like these things or not , that’s the way it is. Why should any of us have to feel ashamed to come out with it and tell it like it is ?

As for Muslim immigrants, they have become a special kind of problem for almost every country on the face of this Earth . It is the Muslim Movement, and they are on the march to make real what they believe is the “destiny of Islam” Thier way of life is a religious oriented life and they want to take it wherever they go . They come over to these other countries and demand the citizens of other countries make special provisions for them . They don’t go into another country and adjust to that country’s rules, values and legal systems, but rather they expect the host country to adjust to thier demands. And thier demands are radical religious and , by modern standards today ,unacceptable .That’s happening more aand more across the globe . Haven’t you read about it ? While Europe slept , it was being altered by radicals who want things changed in thier own favor. There is a silent fight for freedom of speach , because freedom of speach is being so challenged .  Sam Harris understands these things, and that’s why he focuses so much on Islam in his first book . That’s why he makes Islam one of the major subjects on this forum list . Is America sleeping too ?

Sam Harris and his likes, including yourself, are none other than those who wish to maintain the status-quo in a world which obviously could use a little more religion.  In only a few hundred years, we have seen the destruction any thought which is devoid of divine principles is capable of, and already our planet is dying.  While you would blame overpopulation, I would cite mass consumption by the few and the oppression of the many.  The way without God is the way of death.

Conversely, Islam is a way of life which calls people to life.

O you who believe! answer (the call of) God and His Messenger when he calls you to that which gives you life; and know that God intervenes between man and his heart, and that to Him you shall be gathered (Qur’an 8:24)

Likewise, insofar as Islam demands that its adherent always focus on higher principles, and in a world in which selfishness, greed, and immeadiate gratification are the rule, Islam does seem like a stranger.

It is as the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said, referring to a later day: “Islam came as a strange thing, and it will return as a strange thing. Blessed are the strangers”.

[ Edited: 12 July 2008 03:33 PM by Jack Shooter]
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Posted: 12 July 2008 03:25 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]  
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SusanQ - 10 July 2008 08:29 AM

So your post was a positive educational one?  I’d love some of whatever you’re smoking.

The very obvious aim of this type of bullshit, handwringing propaganda e-mail is to increase people’s discomfort with whatever “out” group is being targetted.  Congratulations, Dee, you swallowed the bait, hook and all.  Way to have perspective.  You sure showed us.

I could not have said it better myself.  Way to call Dee on her distortions.

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Posted: 12 July 2008 05:59 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]  
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Jack Shooter - 12 July 2008 07:24 PM
Dee - 10 July 2008 10:24 PM
burt - 10 July 2008 05:28 PM
Dee - 10 July 2008 04:43 AM

When it comes to understanding just what the general situation is concerning Muslim ( I’m talking here mostly about the radicals, but not entirely. It is shocking to realize how the line between radical and “moderate” can be blurred ) attitude towards “unbelievers”, thier progress and activity in countries that are not Muslim,and thier religious imposition and demands ... we should focus on one word , and that word should be “PERSPECTIVE “

Before you settle on an opinion, cave in to your emotions,judge according to what other aquainances tell you ,or what you see in a few Muslims or some other impression—-remember this : gain perspective and you will find the facts.

There ARE the experts, knowledgable scholars of the subject,foremost interpreters in America and other countries etc. Why don’t you look into what they have to say before you judge ?

And I’ll ask you to remember that what I wrote in my first post were NOT my own words but something I quoted from another source. That post isn’t about me, it is about immigrants . Take a deep breath and consider what is being said. Decide to be possitive and learn.

I tend to base my opinions on what I have read or seen in a large number of sources, leavened by a large dollup of personal experience. 

Of course, we all know the horrible fate of the US as it absorbed all those uncivilized Irish immigrants a few years ago (Roman Catholics, papists all, bent on destroying our democracy and making us subservient to Rome).  Why, they even made a movie about how horrible they were (Gangs of New York).  Even worse, some of their descendants even made it to the White House!


I supose there have been many “immigration conflicts “of the past in the USA , but none of them were on the same scale as the United Islamic Sprawl that is taking place today. And no matter what happened in the past, it is what is happening today that matters. I take it you are pointing out the Irish story as an example of how needless our fears etc. can be when it comes to “foreigners”?

We should realize and admitt that immigration has become a huge problem today. For a country that seems to be so hated, the USA seems to be the prime destination for immigrants ! Do you think it is nonsense or unfair to say that so many of these people are here to get what they can from America, whether they respect her or not ? It’s as though they want to reap a harvest they never sowed. Many of America’s population will be cut short in one way or another just so a foreinger can “have a better life ” ?  I don’t know about your town but over here in Seattle and vicinaty it is chuck-full of people with accents who are getting jobs the regular citizens might have gotten . I know a man with four children who was turned down for State assisstance while a room full of Mexicans and thier pregnate wives are granted help right away. Like these things or not , that’s the way it is. Why should any of us have to feel ashamed to come out with it and tell it like it is ?

As for Muslim immigrants, they have become a special kind of problem for almost every country on the face of this Earth . It is the Muslim Movement, and they are on the march to make real what they believe is the “destiny of Islam” Thier way of life is a religious oriented life and they want to take it wherever they go . They come over to these other countries and demand the citizens of other countries make special provisions for them . They don’t go into another country and adjust to that country’s rules, values and legal systems, but rather they expect the host country to adjust to thier demands. And thier demands are radical religious and , by modern standards today ,unacceptable .That’s happening more aand more across the globe . Haven’t you read about it ? While Europe slept , it was being altered by radicals who want things changed in thier own favor. There is a silent fight for freedom of speach , because freedom of speach is being so challenged .  Sam Harris understands these things, and that’s why he focuses so much on Islam in his first book . That’s why he makes Islam one of the major subjects on this forum list . Is America sleeping too ?

Sam Harris and his likes, including yourself, are none other than those who wish to maintain the status-quo in a world which obviously could use a little more religion.  In only a few hundred years, we have seen the destruction any thought which is devoid of divine principles is capable of, and already our planet is dying.  While you would blame overpopulation, I would cite mass consumption by the few and the oppression of the many.  The way without God is the way of death.

Conversely, Islam is a way of life which calls people to life.

O you who believe! answer (the call of) God and His Messenger when he calls you to that which gives you life; and know that God intervenes between man and his heart, and that to Him you shall be gathered (Qur’an 8:24)

Likewise, insofar as Islam demands that its adherent always focus on higher principles, and in a world in which selfishness, greed, and immeadiate gratification are the rule, Islam does seem like a stranger.

It is as the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said, referring to a later day: “Islam came as a strange thing, and it will return as a strange thing. Blessed are the strangers”.

Oh good grief ! What are you anyhow, Shooter ? Some kind of a Muslim apologist ?  I don’t get it—this is a forum established by a man who wrote books on , in a few words, the stupidity of religion , and his disgust with the 9/11 attack of America by Muslim idiotic religious fanatics is the last straw ( that broke the camel’s back ) and he wrote his first book. Now YOU come along and preach YOUR “MUHAMMAD blather ” to the company on THIS message board ? Are the posters here losing thier direction ?  One thing that is even harder to understand is how the participants on this forum can tollerate YOUR antagonistic crap and yet don’t give me credit for my ideas .

Anyone who thinks they are knowlegable on the subject of immigration and Muslims should understand what I am saying . What I say couldn’t be more real. Please read my post again. My views come from a good understanding—I’ve been tuned in for a long time . And YOU—don’t don’t do any praising of your azzhole Muhammed in my face—I’d rather die than give that degenerate ,overblown, phoney sidewinder any approval . As far as I’m concerned Islam is a blemish on the face of all humanity . Wanna argue that ?  Good—because you have no arguement—when somethting is wrong it’s wrong. Islam is one big mistake. “Peace be upon you !! YUK ! YUK ! YUK !

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Posted: 18 July 2008 09:35 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]  
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Dee - 12 July 2008 09:59 PM
Jack Shooter - 12 July 2008 07:24 PM
Dee - 10 July 2008 10:24 PM
burt - 10 July 2008 05:28 PM
Dee - 10 July 2008 04:43 AM

When it comes to understanding just what the general situation is concerning Muslim ( I’m talking here mostly about the radicals, but not entirely. It is shocking to realize how the line between radical and “moderate” can be blurred ) attitude towards “unbelievers”, thier progress and activity in countries that are not Muslim,and thier religious imposition and demands ... we should focus on one word , and that word should be “PERSPECTIVE “

Before you settle on an opinion, cave in to your emotions,judge according to what other aquainances tell you ,or what you see in a few Muslims or some other impression—-remember this : gain perspective and you will find the facts.

There ARE the experts, knowledgable scholars of the subject,foremost interpreters in America and other countries etc. Why don’t you look into what they have to say before you judge ?

And I’ll ask you to remember that what I wrote in my first post were NOT my own words but something I quoted from another source. That post isn’t about me, it is about immigrants . Take a deep breath and consider what is being said. Decide to be possitive and learn.

I tend to base my opinions on what I have read or seen in a large number of sources, leavened by a large dollup of personal experience. 

Of course, we all know the horrible fate of the US as it absorbed all those uncivilized Irish immigrants a few years ago (Roman Catholics, papists all, bent on destroying our democracy and making us subservient to Rome).  Why, they even made a movie about how horrible they were (Gangs of New York).  Even worse, some of their descendants even made it to the White House!


I supose there have been many “immigration conflicts “of the past in the USA , but none of them were on the same scale as the United Islamic Sprawl that is taking place today. And no matter what happened in the past, it is what is happening today that matters. I take it you are pointing out the Irish story as an example of how needless our fears etc. can be when it comes to “foreigners”?

We should realize and admitt that immigration has become a huge problem today. For a country that seems to be so hated, the USA seems to be the prime destination for immigrants ! Do you think it is nonsense or unfair to say that so many of these people are here to get what they can from America, whether they respect her or not ? It’s as though they want to reap a harvest they never sowed. Many of America’s population will be cut short in one way or another just so a foreinger can “have a better life ” ?  I don’t know about your town but over here in Seattle and vicinaty it is chuck-full of people with accents who are getting jobs the regular citizens might have gotten . I know a man with four children who was turned down for State assisstance while a room full of Mexicans and thier pregnate wives are granted help right away. Like these things or not , that’s the way it is. Why should any of us have to feel ashamed to come out with it and tell it like it is ?

As for Muslim immigrants, they have become a special kind of problem for almost every country on the face of this Earth . It is the Muslim Movement, and they are on the march to make real what they believe is the “destiny of Islam” Thier way of life is a religious oriented life and they want to take it wherever they go . They come over to these other countries and demand the citizens of other countries make special provisions for them . They don’t go into another country and adjust to that country’s rules, values and legal systems, but rather they expect the host country to adjust to thier demands. And thier demands are radical religious and , by modern standards today ,unacceptable .That’s happening more aand more across the globe . Haven’t you read about it ? While Europe slept , it was being altered by radicals who want things changed in thier own favor. There is a silent fight for freedom of speach , because freedom of speach is being so challenged .  Sam Harris understands these things, and that’s why he focuses so much on Islam in his first book . That’s why he makes Islam one of the major subjects on this forum list . Is America sleeping too ?

Sam Harris and his likes, including yourself, are none other than those who wish to maintain the status-quo in a world which obviously could use a little more religion.  In only a few hundred years, we have seen the destruction any thought which is devoid of divine principles is capable of, and already our planet is dying.  While you would blame overpopulation, I would cite mass consumption by the few and the oppression of the many.  The way without God is the way of death.

Conversely, Islam is a way of life which calls people to life.

O you who believe! answer (the call of) God and His Messenger when he calls you to that which gives you life; and know that God intervenes between man and his heart, and that to Him you shall be gathered (Qur’an 8:24)

Likewise, insofar as Islam demands that its adherent always focus on higher principles, and in a world in which selfishness, greed, and immeadiate gratification are the rule, Islam does seem like a stranger.

It is as the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said, referring to a later day: “Islam came as a strange thing, and it will return as a strange thing. Blessed are the strangers”.

Oh good grief ! What are you anyhow, Shooter ? Some kind of a Muslim apologist ?  I don’t get it—this is a forum established by a man who wrote books on , in a few words, the stupidity of religion , and his disgust with the 9/11 attack of America by Muslim idiotic religious fanatics is the last straw ( that broke the camel’s back ) and he wrote his first book. Now YOU come along and preach YOUR “MUHAMMAD blather ” to the company on THIS message board ? Are the posters here losing thier direction ?  One thing that is even harder to understand is how the participants on this forum can tollerate YOUR antagonistic crap and yet don’t give me credit for my ideas .

Anyone who thinks they are knowlegable on the subject of immigration and Muslims should understand what I am saying . What I say couldn’t be more real. Please read my post again. My views come from a good understanding—I’ve been tuned in for a long time . And YOU—don’t don’t do any praising of your azzhole Muhammed in my face—I’d rather die than give that degenerate ,overblown, phoney sidewinder any approval . As far as I’m concerned Islam is a blemish on the face of all humanity . Wanna argue that ?  Good—because you have no arguement—when somethting is wrong it’s wrong. Islam is one big mistake. “Peace be upon you !! YUK ! YUK ! YUK !

“I’ve been tuned in for a long time” - to the wrong channel, apparently.  Anyway, I only pray that your aversion to truth, to goodness, be replaced with love for these things.

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Posted: 19 July 2008 03:30 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]  
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“I’ve been tuned in for a long time” - to the wrong channel, apparently.  Anyway, I only pray that your aversion to truth, to goodness, be replaced with love for these things.

Jack
With all the links, quotes and videos you have posted, I believe to be an expert in “wrong channels”.

Stay Well
Wot

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Posted: 19 July 2008 05:51 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]  
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Wotansson - 19 July 2008 07:30 PM

“I’ve been tuned in for a long time” - to the wrong channel, apparently.  Anyway, I only pray that your aversion to truth, to goodness, be replaced with love for these things.

Jack
With all the links, quotes and videos you have posted, I believe to be an expert in “wrong channels”.

Stay Well
Wot

Come again?

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Posted: 19 July 2008 10:10 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]  
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Jack SHooter: “Sam Harris and his likes, including yourself, are none other than those who wish to maintain the status-quo in a world which obviously could use a little more religion.”

 

LOL Who again is trying to maintain the status quo? The status quo is religions persistently doing anything (using fear and oppression) and everything (to the extent of killing non-believers of their particular faith or non-faith) for the past 2000-plus years. This world needs more educated, rational and enlightened people, not more religion, only a brainwashed religionist would beLIEve the world needs more divisive, inhumane religion that A-Okays oppression (or death) of “the other.”

:Jack: “In only a few hundred years, we have seen the destruction any thought which is devoid of divine principles is capable of, and already our planet is dying.”

 

It’s your brain cells that are dying in a redundantly insane loop. Man created the “divine” principles of which you speak… no “divine” entity would have allowed your beloved muhammed to brainwash and rape a nine-year-old child even in 600 CE.

While you would blame overpopulation, I would cite mass consumption by the few and the oppression of the many.  The way without God is the way of death.

Who again is guilty of oppressing the many? Your imams, Jack. They’re in the same company as the greedy capitalists you so despise.
AND, the nature of life is death dumb ass. (I’m sorry, I tried not to refrain from an ad hominem attack, but your gloating is just too much to bear.)

Conversely, Islam is a way of life which calls people to life.

If this is true, then quit using your religion to justify and rationalize the destruction of those who disagree.

Jack quoting his shlock: “O you who believe! answer (the call of) God and His Messenger when he calls you to that which gives you life; and know that God intervenes between man and his heart, and that to Him you shall be gathered” (Qur’an 8:24)

Your mother gave you life, so call her and thank her. It seems the only thing your god is intervening is between your ears.

Likewise, insofar as Islam demands that its adherent always focus on higher principles, and in a world in which selfishness, greed, and immeadiate gratification are the rule, Islam does seem like a stranger.

Take your “demands” Mr. “adherent” and be not selfish nor greedy nor seeking of immediate gratification and keep it to thy self.
Think about it Jacky,  longing for the return of the Ottoman empire is selfish, greedy and seeking gratification via destruction of all who disagree.

May Bruce’s non-omni-god bless and keep the First Amendment alive and may you and your ilk cease being so thin-skinned that you can’t handle being offended. 

And burt, stop being so fucking politically correct. Those women wouldn’t dress so quirkily quaint if they weren’t forced to do so. And the muslims (some former and some adherent) I’ve met and known in my lifetime taught me with their own words and actions:  “do not trust them…” they have something up their sleeves, and it isn’t related to freedom, peace, or justice.

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Posted: 20 July 2008 05:39 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]  
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isocratic infidel - 20 July 2008 02:10 AM

Jack SHooter: “Sam Harris and his likes, including yourself, are none other than those who wish to maintain the status-quo in a world which obviously could use a little more religion.”

 

LOL Who again is trying to maintain the status quo? The status quo is religions persistently doing anything (using fear and oppression) and everything (to the extent of killing non-believers of their particular faith or non-faith) for the past 2000-plus years. This world needs more educated, rational and enlightened people, not more religion, only a brainwashed religionist would beLIEve the world needs more divisive, inhumane religion that A-Okays oppression (or death) of “the other.”

:Jack: “In only a few hundred years, we have seen the destruction any thought which is devoid of divine principles is capable of, and already our planet is dying.”

 

It’s your brain cells that are dying in a redundantly insane loop. Man created the “divine” principles of which you speak… no “divine” entity would have allowed your beloved muhammed to brainwash and rape a nine-year-old child even in 600 CE.

While you would blame overpopulation, I would cite mass consumption by the few and the oppression of the many.  The way without God is the way of death.

Who again is guilty of oppressing the many? Your imams, Jack. They’re in the same company as the greedy capitalists you so despise.
AND, the nature of life is death dumb ass. (I’m sorry, I tried not to refrain from an ad hominem attack, but your gloating is just too much to bear.)

Conversely, Islam is a way of life which calls people to life.

If this is true, then quit using your religion to justify and rationalize the destruction of those who disagree.

Jack quoting his shlock: “O you who believe! answer (the call of) God and His Messenger when he calls you to that which gives you life; and know that God intervenes between man and his heart, and that to Him you shall be gathered” (Qur’an 8:24)

Your mother gave you life, so call her and thank her. It seems the only thing your god is intervening is between your ears.

Likewise, insofar as Islam demands that its adherent always focus on higher principles, and in a world in which selfishness, greed, and immeadiate gratification are the rule, Islam does seem like a stranger.

Take your “demands” Mr. “adherent” and be not selfish nor greedy nor seeking of immediate gratification and keep it to thy self.
Think about it Jacky,  longing for the return of the Ottoman empire is selfish, greedy and seeking gratification via destruction of all who disagree.

May Bruce’s non-omni-god bless and keep the First Amendment alive and may you and your ilk cease being so thin-skinned that you can’t handle being offended. 

And burt, stop being so fucking politically correct. Those women wouldn’t dress so quirkily quaint if they weren’t forced to do so. And the muslims (some former and some adherent) I’ve met and known in my lifetime taught me with their own words and actions:  “do not trust them…” they have something up their sleeves, and it isn’t related to freedom, peace, or justice.

Dear Sir/Madam

I can tell that your hurting, really bad.  If it gives you any reassurance, your feelings are normal.  Many people respond with hatred, anger, and general ignorance when faced with the truth.

Anyway, your lengthy tirade is just too weak to warrant a serious response from me.  But thanks for taking the time to write.

[ Edited: 20 July 2008 05:43 AM by Jack Shooter]
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Posted: 20 July 2008 05:49 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]  
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Burt:
First off, you do not have any Muslim friends.
The reason for that is that Muslims are expressly forbidden in the Quran to make friends with Jews and Christians (if they do make friends with them, they will be thrown into hell-fire).
They are, however, allowed by the Quran to SEEM friendly towards them, insofar it will benefit Islam.

So either, they are fooling you, or are not following the Quran, i.e, not Muslims

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Posted: 20 July 2008 08:12 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]  
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arildno - 20 July 2008 09:49 AM

Burt:
First off, you do not have any Muslim friends.
The reason for that is that Muslims are expressly forbidden in the Quran to make friends with Jews and Christians (if they do make friends with them, they will be thrown into hell-fire).
They are, however, allowed by the Quran to SEEM friendly towards them, insofar it will benefit Islam.

So either, they are fooling you, or are not following the Quran, i.e, not Muslims

When I lived in Arizona, I became familiar with the term Jack-Mormon and the practitioners. This is not some subtle reference to The Shooter (Enlightenment Be Upon Him), who we all know and love. A Jack Mormon is one who behaves outwardly devout, especially when other Mormons are present. However when they are certain that others are not watching you can find them down at the Hooters chugging down the beers and oogling the boobs. This is by no means the worst of their private transgressions and some do engage in the grossest immoralities while others are passive Mormons or just closet atheists and “good folks”. I really have some stories to tell about these gross transgressions but not right now. We probably all know plenty of Jack Christians and Jack Jews.

Now to the point. I think it is possible that Burt’s “friends” are Jack Muslims. Not to minimize the possible damage that they might do under the pressure of other Muslims or when transplanted into free western society away from the oppression of eastern Muslim theocracy. But Burt - do be aware and do be careful.

Stay Well
Wot

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Posted: 21 July 2008 07:53 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]  
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Jacky: “I can tell that your hurting, really bad.  If it gives you any reassurance, your feelings are normal.  Many people respond with hatred, anger, and general ignorance when faced with the truth.”

LOL
Is that it? That’s your response? Have you ever heard of projecting Jack? Me thinks thou art projecting on me what thou doest feel and—deep down may know—is true about thyself.

Don’t confuse my own lack of fear to speak my mind and no desire to walk on eggshells with hurt, hatred and/or anger. And the “general ignorance” is definitely on your end dear.

I actually feel sad and somewhat mad (not at you personally, but at the religion itself) that you have been enslaved by; it is such a dark religion; so dark that it has you believing that you chose it and that it contains any semblance of reality or truth.

I see you as a tragic waste of consciousness. I don’t blame you for this, Jack, I blame the imams and leaders of your religion… you come to this forum and I hope one day it will help you to WAKE UP enough to break the vicious loops and fill the grooves of your brain with something that is actually life-affirming and positive… and maybe then, you’ll be able to find the real Jack that islam has hijacked. I hope one day that you find the honesty, integrity and strength to become a self-governing human being that has the right and the ability to think for your self. 

Wot:” A Jack Mormon is one who behaves outwardly devout, especially when other Mormons are present. However when they are certain that others are not watching you can find them down at the Hooters chugging down the beers and oogling the boobs. This is by no means the worst of their private transgressions and some do engage in the grossest immoralities while others are passive Mormons or just closet atheists and “good folks.” I really have some stories to tell about these gross transgressions but not right now. We probably all know plenty of Jack Christians and Jack Jews.

Ah, Wot, you bring back memories… No one parties harder than a jack mo! I grew up in “the new promised land” aka, Zion (SLC Utah), and your observations hit the mark. Although, I must say, I never met one that engaged in “the grossest immoralities”—which is to say, not too many ex-moes turn into serial killers or even one-time murderers or child rapists.
One caveat, a jack mormon also still actually believes “the church is true” and many eventually go back. That early imprinting can be quite effective… It requires serious rehab and recovery to escape.

And now, so your point to burt does not get lost, I shall re-post it… you said it much less crudely than I, and it’s a fine point that bears repeating:

Wot: “Now to the point. I think it is possible that Burt’s “friends” are Jack Muslims. Not to minimize the possible damage that they might do under the pressure of other Muslims or when transplanted into free western society away from the oppression of eastern Muslim theocracy. But Burt - do be aware and do be careful.”

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Posted: 21 July 2008 11:30 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]  
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Wotansson - 20 July 2008 12:12 PM

When I lived in Arizona, I became familiar with the term Jack-Mormon and the practitioners. This is not some subtle reference to The Shooter (Enlightenment Be Upon Him), who we all know and love. A Jack Mormon is one who behaves outwardly devout, especially when other Mormons are present. However when they are certain that others are not watching you can find them down at the Hooters chugging down the beers and oogling the boobs. This is by no means the worst of their private transgressions and some do engage in the grossest immoralities while others are passive Mormons or just closet atheists and “good folks”. I really have some stories to tell about these gross transgressions but not right now. We probably all know plenty of Jack Christians and Jack Jews.

Now to the point. I think it is possible that Burt’s “friends” are Jack Muslims. Not to minimize the possible damage that they might do under the pressure of other Muslims or when transplanted into free western society away from the oppression of eastern Muslim theocracy. But Burt - do be aware and do be careful.

Stay Well
Wot

This ignores the fact that there are lots of levels within Islam, just as with Christianity.  On the one side, there are the fanatics, and a large proportion of fundamentalists (much larger than within Christianity).  Then there are people like Bruce, who considers himself a good Christian (I presume), and more generally, liberal Christians.  Would you call them Jack Christians? 

Anyway:

Jews don’t recognize Jesus as the savior.

Protestants don’t recognize the Pope as head of the church.

Mormons don’t recognize each other in the liquor store….

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Posted: 21 July 2008 11:46 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]  
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You don’t seem to get it, burt.

Muslims are explicitly forbidden to make friends with infidels, unless they only SEEM to be friends, in the interests of Islam.
Those Muslims who consider themselves genuine friends of infidels are regarded as “one of them”, i.e, as apostates of Islam doomed for hell-fire.

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Posted: 21 July 2008 11:56 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]  
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Burt:

This ignores the fact that there are lots of levels within Islam, just as with Christianity.  On the one side, there are the fanatics, and a large proportion of fundamentalists (much larger than within Christianity).  Then there are people like Bruce, who considers himself a good Christian (I presume), and more generally, liberal Christians.  Would you call them Jack Christians?

Anyone who does not follow the accepted tenets, texts and teachings of any faith is a Jack-Whatever. If this were not true then why call it a religion? For the Christian, the way is defined by the gospels in the words actually attributed to Jesus. Those who do not live to follow these words are Jack Christians.
Try to not be so open-minded that your brain falls out.

Stay Well

Wot

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Posted: 21 July 2008 12:06 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]  
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Wotansson - 21 July 2008 03:56 PM

Burt:

This ignores the fact that there are lots of levels within Islam, just as with Christianity.  On the one side, there are the fanatics, and a large proportion of fundamentalists (much larger than within Christianity).  Then there are people like Bruce, who considers himself a good Christian (I presume), and more generally, liberal Christians.  Would you call them Jack Christians?

Anyone who does not follow the accepted tenets, texts and teachings of any faith is a Jack-Whatever. If this were not true then why call it a religion? For the Christian, the way is defined by the gospels in the words actually attributed to Jesus. Those who do not live to follow these words are Jack Christians.
Try to not be so open-minded that your brain falls out.

Stay Well

Wot

So I guess arildno is just an Ass rather than a Jack Ass.  cheese

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