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Atheist to Muslim Convert
Posted: 19 August 2008 01:13 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 31 ]  
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I personally don’t believe in atheist -> theist conversions at all.

Not saying its a physical impossibility I just don’t think they are happening.

Usually when its said that an atheist has convereted to religion. Its not really an outspoken atheist. Not someone who is comfortable in their non belief. Its usually a person who is slightly towards the theistic side of agnostocism who has never really bothered about religion, but also never actually held any strong reasons to not believe. These people are NOT atheists.

Every other time when you debate a christian who uses the “I was once an atheist” argument, to either imply that they know the atheist mind from within or imply that they were reasoned out of it, you inevitably find out when you research that its people who either had no belief at all, or they in fact were christians who left their church for six months, or for a year or two during high-school when its not hip to be religions. And then came back.

I’ve yet to find one cridble case of an outspoken atheist, who does not believe in god by reasons, knowing why they don’t believe who then convert. Its just not happening.

As a side note many agnostics or people who just don’t bother with religion convert out of convenience when they marry a religious person. Especially women tend to conver to the faith of their spouse. So thats a large part of the explanation.

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Posted: 19 August 2008 01:34 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 32 ]  
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Jack Shooter - 16 August 2008 02:23 AM
thepredatorhandshake - 01 August 2008 05:34 AM
Jack Shooter - 31 July 2008 07:42 PM

Funny how you don’t consider the possibility that Islam resonates with people as the truth.

The truth being that if I change my mind I should be killed, or that fucking 9yr old girls is ethical???

Hmm…don’t think so pal.

What do you know about ethics, pal?

Plenty, thanks.

For example, I know that fucking 9yr old girls is wrong.

Do you agree?

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Posted: 19 August 2008 01:36 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 33 ]  
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Jack Shooter - 19 August 2008 12:11 AM

we can’t have widespread godlessness because that is harmful to individuals, families, and communities

Go to Scandinavia and tell them that.

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Posted: 19 August 2008 01:41 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 34 ]  
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Unbeliever - 19 August 2008 05:13 PM

I personally don’t believe in atheist -> theist conversions at all.

Not saying its a physical impossibility I just don’t think they are happening.

I’ve yet to find one cridble case of an outspoken atheist, who does not believe in god by reasons, knowing why they don’t believe who then convert. Its just not happening.

Hey, Unbeliever.

I myself didn’t believe it was possible, still I started noticing it these past few years. I’ve spoken at length to 4 cases, both before and afterward, and though astounding, all 4 are still ‘muslims’ and amazingly none of them could explain to me, in objective language, why they had converted!

All of them consider it a “realisation” that has been given to them. Two of them consider their ‘change’ a ‘deconversion’, swallowing that whole crap about how we’re all born Muslims but some of us stray from the light of Alan etc…

All of them refuse to answer simple questions like - “Do you communicate with god?” without referring to the Koran.

Brainwashing (possibly self-inflicted). Scary stuff.

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Posted: 19 August 2008 02:32 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 35 ]  
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thepredatorhandshake - 19 August 2008 05:41 PM
Unbeliever - 19 August 2008 05:13 PM

I personally don’t believe in atheist -> theist conversions at all.

Not saying its a physical impossibility I just don’t think they are happening.

I’ve yet to find one cridble case of an outspoken atheist, who does not believe in god by reasons, knowing why they don’t believe who then convert. Its just not happening.

Hey, Unbeliever.

I myself didn’t believe it was possible, still I started noticing it these past few years. I’ve spoken at length to 4 cases, both before and afterward, and though astounding, all 4 are still ‘muslims’ and amazingly none of them could explain to me, in objective language, why they had converted!

All of them consider it a “realisation” that has been given to them. Two of them consider their ‘change’ a ‘deconversion’, swallowing that whole crap about how we’re all born Muslims but some of us stray from the light of Alan etc…

All of them refuse to answer simple questions like - “Do you communicate with god?” without referring to the Koran.

Brainwashing (possibly self-inflicted). Scary stuff.

I can’t see anything in that statement that suggests those cases could not easily fit into the very category I just pointed out.
People who convert to theism are rarely actually atheists in the first place. I hate to sound like the christians who say that converters were not actuall christians but usually you are dealing with people who just did not “get around” to believe in any one god. But never have I seen atheists who have actually given god some serious thought suddently swing to theism.

If these people were the kind of atheists who thought things through, like the people on this board. Then there is a huge rationality deficit in their conversion stories because they ought to be able to provide very concrete reasons for why they turned, not on the god question but on the individual specific reasons that kept them from believing in god.

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Posted: 19 August 2008 03:08 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 36 ]  
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Unbeliever - 19 August 2008 05:13 PM

I’ve yet to find one cridble case of an outspoken atheist, who does not believe in god by reasons, knowing why they don’t believe who then convert. Its just not happening.

Antony Flew—though he’s a deist, not a Christian.  But he did state that he believed existence has a god at its core.

Here’s a Link to the Article

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Posted: 19 August 2008 03:29 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 37 ]  
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Keep The Reason - 19 August 2008 07:08 PM
Unbeliever - 19 August 2008 05:13 PM

I’ve yet to find one cridble case of an outspoken atheist, who does not believe in god by reasons, knowing why they don’t believe who then convert. Its just not happening.

Antony Flew—though he’s a deist, not a Christian.  But he did state that he believed existence has a god at its core.

Here’s a Link to the Article

A deist is not a theist. Odd huh.

Deists are people who want to believe in something, but they find specific truth claims to be too embarassing so they pick one that is vague enough for no one to call them on it.

Deism is theism for people smart enough to be embarassed about believing, but dumb enough to not be able to live without belief.

Either way, I did not say its impossible. But one example is a piss in mississippi.
Its insignificant.
Ofcourse I say this before I read up on this guy, I won’t gurantee that he might be a phony as well before I check his record.

[ Edited: 19 August 2008 03:34 PM by Unbeliever]
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Posted: 19 August 2008 03:45 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 38 ]  
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Unbeliever - 19 August 2008 05:13 PM

I personally don’t believe in atheist -> theist conversions at all.

I met Anne Rice a couple of time in New Orleans and knew Chris, her son, from theater there.  She was quite an atheist and now very much a Christian.  I don’t think hubby Stan has changed his mind.  She is a very talented writer (if you like her various genres…I liked the “Beauty’s Punishment” genre best).  Reading the conclusion to the Witching series, “Taltos” you would never see a conversion possible from this once great atheist.  I always heaed that she was a little nutty.

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Posted: 19 August 2008 04:37 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 39 ]  
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I met Anne Rice a couple of time in New Orleans and knew Chris, her son, from theater there.  She was quite an atheist and now very much a Christian.  I don’t think hubby Stan has changed his mind.  She is a very talented writer (if you like her various genres…I liked the “Beauty’s Punishment” genre best).  Reading the conclusion to the Witching series, “Taltos” you would never see a conversion possible from this once great atheist.  I always heaed that she was a little nutty.

That’s funny LAR, Anne Rice was one of the first that came to mind.  I read the Vampire Chronicles as a teen and my mom read some of her stuff (Mummy series).  I was pretty shocked when I saw that she had written a beautiful article on her own skepticism and then return to Christ this Easter in the Washington Post.

I think C.S. Lewis would also qualify. 

I hate to sound like the christians who say that converters were not actuall christians but usually you are dealing with people who just did not “get around” to believe in any one god.

Isn’t that the definition that atheists so faithfully proclaim here though…an atheist is simply someone who lacks a belief in God? 

But never have I seen atheists who have actually given god some serious thought suddently swing to theism.

Maybe it takes more than “serious thought” to become a theist…

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Posted: 19 August 2008 04:44 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 40 ]  
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Lee Strobel is another case in point…although I rate his pennings “bourgeois.”

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Posted: 19 August 2008 05:40 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 41 ]  
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Jack Shooter - 31 July 2008 07:42 PM

Funny how you don’t consider the possibility that Islam resonates with people as the truth.

We know that religion resonates with people as the truth ... that’s the scary part. Atheism is like the loss of virginity ... there’s no turning back. I liken it to enlightenment.

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Posted: 20 August 2008 04:02 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 42 ]  
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Unbeliever - 19 August 2008 07:29 PM
Keep The Reason - 19 August 2008 07:08 PM
Unbeliever - 19 August 2008 05:13 PM

I’ve yet to find one cridble case of an outspoken atheist, who does not believe in god by reasons, knowing why they don’t believe who then convert. Its just not happening.

Antony Flew—though he’s a deist, not a Christian.  But he did state that he believed existence has a god at its core.

Here’s a Link to the Article

A deist is not a theist. Odd huh.

Deists are people who want to believe in something, but they find specific truth claims to be too embarassing so they pick one that is vague enough for no one to call them on it.

Deism is theism for people smart enough to be embarassed about believing, but dumb enough to not be able to live without belief.

Either way, I did not say its impossible. But one example is a piss in mississippi.
Its insignificant.
Ofcourse I say this before I read up on this guy, I won’t gurantee that he might be a phony as well before I check his record.

Or perhaps a Deist is smart enough to recognize that all ultimate truths are not yet known sufficient to draw definite conclusions.

Stay Well
Wotansson

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Posted: 20 August 2008 06:03 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 43 ]  
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Unbeliever - 19 August 2008 06:32 PM

I can’t see anything in that statement that suggests those cases could not easily fit into the very category I just pointed out.

If these people were the kind of atheists who thought things through, like the people on this board. Then there is a huge rationality deficit in their conversion stories because they ought to be able to provide very concrete reasons for why they turned, not on the god question but on the individual specific reasons that kept them from believing in god.

Ok, so you’re clearly not willing to take my word for it that I AM ABLE to ascertain what an atheist is, right?!

These people were atheists, by any definition, who have converted to Islam. Face it. Deal with it.

I understand your point…that such fools as Alister McGrath weren’t really atheists to start with, but these few individuals I mention were avid atheists that now bend over in submission several times a day.

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Posted: 20 August 2008 08:36 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 44 ]  
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thepredatorhandshake - 20 August 2008 10:03 AM

Ok, so you’re clearly not willing to take my word for it that I AM ABLE to ascertain what an atheist is, right?!

Yes its a peculiar little trait I have that I don’t by default take the hearsay of random forum posters on the internet for confirmed.

Considering that basically no one can agree on what an atheist actually is I find it to be extremely likely that you can not ascertain how I distinguish different groups of non believers yes.

Thats why I tried to explain which kind of people I am talking about clearly in my first post. Which is a narrow group.

I did say its not impossible though, although I think its unlikely for someone who has spent time arguing over the idiocy of having an emotional experience and then believe in god, to have such an experience without being able to see it for what it is.

Its perhaps as rare as a fascist/pascifist conversion, or a communist/capitalist conversion.
Its surely possible, not common enough to warrant a forum thread on it though which leads me to wonder what the point of this actually is.

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Posted: 20 August 2008 08:40 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 45 ]  
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Wotansson - 20 August 2008 08:02 AM

Or perhaps a Deist is smart enough to recognize that all ultimate truths are not yet known sufficient to draw definite conclusions.

And would deists listen to that advice they would take one more step and become scientists instead.

I’m not even going to touch “ultimate truths”, is it anything like ultimate fighting championship? I have a feeling its atleast equally ultimate.

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