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McCain Takes Lead in Polls
Posted: 20 August 2008 02:01 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]  
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Wotansson - 20 August 2008 05:50 PM

Folks should clean their own house first. Once they show wisdom and results, then they are qualified to give advice. Talk is cheap, and cheaper than ever before.

Meaning? What exactly. That unless you’ve been president you have no right to comment on the office?
Last time I checked there was no qualification test for freedom of speech. Or does the first ammendment not apply to foreigners?

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Posted: 20 August 2008 02:06 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]  
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Wotansson - 20 August 2008 05:50 PM

Folks should clean their own house first. Once they show wisdom and results, then they are qualified to give advice. Talk is cheap, and cheaper than ever before.

The euro is becoming the currency of choice in the world.  Healthcare is better in Europe.  Education is better.  People have longer vacations.  Pre-school care is better.  Public transportation is better, etc.  Europeans don’t want the U.S. to slide any further.  They want us to succeed.  They are hoping Obama will win - they see hope there.

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Posted: 20 August 2008 02:09 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]  
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Unbeliever - 20 August 2008 06:01 PM
Wotansson - 20 August 2008 05:50 PM

Folks should clean their own house first. Once they show wisdom and results, then they are qualified to give advice. Talk is cheap, and cheaper than ever before.

Meaning? What exactly. That unless you’ve been president you have no right to comment on the office?
Last time I checked there was no qualification test for freedom of speech. Or does the first ammendment not apply to foreigners?

Meaning that those not getting any noticeable positive results in their own politics are not really in a credible position to give advice. And sure, anyone can say whatever they like.

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Wotansson

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Posted: 20 August 2008 02:18 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]  
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I have great respect for McCain as a politician and as a brave veteran. Nevertheless, I heard McCain in the debates say that he knew little about the economy and that we would keep troops in Iraq for another 100 years if that is what it takes to “win.” I am paraphrasing. I am sure somebody will look up the actual quotes. Now those are statements that, frankly, do not inspire a great deal of confidence as far as I am concerned. I have seen (and financially felt) the impact from the GOP being in power over the last 8 years. I am not giving the Dems a free pass. They promised to get us out of Iraq and did not deliver. At least the economy was good under Billy, and we had stained dresses to talk about. Unbeliever’s point about nationalism is well taken. Imo, the world is getting politically and economically more interdependent. It is time to think of ourselves as world citizens who happen to live in this block of the neighborhood.

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Posted: 20 August 2008 02:25 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]  
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unsmoked - 20 August 2008 06:06 PM
Wotansson - 20 August 2008 05:50 PM

Folks should clean their own house first. Once they show wisdom and results, then they are qualified to give advice. Talk is cheap, and cheaper than ever before.

The euro is becoming the currency of choice in the world.  Healthcare is better in Europe.  Education is better.  People have longer vacations.  Pre-school care is better.  Public transportation is better, etc.  Europeans don’t want the U.S. to slide any further.  They want us to succeed.  They are hoping Obama will win - they see hope there.

I do admire some of the Europeans, especially in the north, for their social progress. I also admire them for their freedom from religion, but this is a whole other topic. Not to say that Europe is not without problems - socialism, astronomical taxes and alcoholism. When you say:

Europeans don’t want the U.S. to slide any further.  They want us to succeed.  They are hoping Obama will win - they see hope there.

You have some information or references for this or is it just a personal opinion? They don’t want to see the US slide any further? They are hoping that Obama will win - they see hope there? What hope would that be exactly? I thought that they were just looking forward to being rid of Bush - like the rest of us.

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Posted: 20 August 2008 02:30 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]  
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Wotansson - 20 August 2008 06:09 PM

Meaning that those not getting any noticeable positive results in their own politics.

Just what positive results, and where? In my country? Do I really have to explain to you why that argument makes no sense?

Considering I am not a politician exactly what “results” should I achieve before aspiring to the noble profession of commenting on US politics?

What the hell is “noticable positive results in politics” at a national level even supposed to mean? I bet you don’t know, but just thought it sounded good when you pulled it out of your ass.

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Posted: 20 August 2008 02:37 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]  
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Unbeliever - 20 August 2008 06:30 PM
Wotansson - 20 August 2008 06:09 PM

Meaning that those not getting any noticeable positive results in their own politics.

Just what positive results, and where? In my country? Do I really have to explain to you why that argument makes no sense?

Considering I am not a politician exactly what “results” should I achieve before aspiring to the noble profession of commenting on US politics?

What the hell is “noticable positive results in politics” at a national level even supposed to mean? I bet you don’t know, but just thought it sounded good when you pulled it out of your ass.

Enough. You are appearing to be even more stupid than you were in your first post.

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Wotansson

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Posted: 20 August 2008 02:39 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]  
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Wotansson - 20 August 2008 06:25 PM

Not to say that Europe is not without problems - socialism,

Not unilaterally considered a world problem beside what you might think. Ofcourse I am not a socialist but then again after spending time in the US I can’t really tell what you guys mean when you say socialism anymore. All I can say is that I know our definitions are not the same.

Wotansson - 20 August 2008 06:25 PM

astronomical taxes

While “astronomical” is a value that does not quite meet any standard of precision I’ll just let that one pass and point out that I have never had a problem with tax pressure. And while not “astronomical” some people do pay high taxes. They are the people who earn a shitload of money. They might get to keep slightly less of their salary, but then again they earn enough for it to not prevent them from buying russian caviar and private jets.
Ofcourse any tax needs to be weighed against what you get for the money too. Tax is an investment and to just focus on saying you guys pay a lot of tax without factoring in the free education and healthcare that it gets us is sort of like blaming medical science for alzeimers. Since we now live longer life due to better medicine, we live long enough to catch mental diseases that we previously died before we got. So obviously Alzheimers is the fault of medicine. Its true, but its also an insignificant point.

Wotansson - 20 August 2008 06:25 PM

and alcoholism.

What?

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Posted: 20 August 2008 02:40 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]  
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Wotansson - 20 August 2008 06:37 PM

Enough.

Oh, well played.

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Posted: 20 August 2008 02:59 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]  
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Jefe - 20 August 2008 06:37 PM
Wotansson - 20 August 2008 05:50 PM

Folks should clean their own house first. Once they show wisdom and results, then they are qualified to give advice. Talk is cheap, and cheaper than ever before.

Stay Well

Wotansson

Well, right now our house is pretty clean.  There always seems to be room for improvement.
Our housing market is being affected by the US housing plummet.  Our oil economy is booming due to global effects of the overall oil economy.

There are a few nits I could pick, but overall I’m pretty happy with the liberties and freedoms I enjoy as set out in the Canadian Charter of Rights.

So I’m interested in hearing about the house-cleaning you think Canadians should be doing?

It is indeed fortunate that you oil economy is booming and that is great but is the result of world events. The housing debacle is also the result of world events however much precipitated by the foolishness in the US.
I was trying to get at some progressive programs or policies which have shown positive results in your county that might be implemented elsewhere to the public benefit. Are there any? A hard question I know.
As you know, we are up to our ass in alligators down here and therefore have no advice based on positive results to offer.

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Posted: 20 August 2008 03:04 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]  
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Wotansson - 20 August 2008 06:25 PM
unsmoked - 20 August 2008 06:06 PM
Wotansson - 20 August 2008 05:50 PM

Folks should clean their own house first. Once they show wisdom and results, then they are qualified to give advice. Talk is cheap, and cheaper than ever before.

The euro is becoming the currency of choice in the world.  Healthcare is better in Europe.  Education is better.  People have longer vacations.  Pre-school care is better.  Public transportation is better, etc.  Europeans don’t want the U.S. to slide any further.  They want us to succeed.  They are hoping Obama will win - they see hope there.

I do admire some of the Europeans, especially in the north, for their social progress. I also admire them for their freedom from religion, but this is a whole other topic. Not to say that Europe is not without problems - socialism, astronomical taxes and alcoholism. When you say:

Europeans don’t want the U.S. to slide any further.  They want us to succeed.  They are hoping Obama will win - they see hope there.

You have some information or references for this or is it just a personal opinion? They don’t want to see the US slide any further? They are hoping that Obama will win - they see hope there? What hope would that be exactly? I thought that they were just looking forward to being rid of Bush - like the rest of us.

The polls in Italy show a whopping 70 percent for Obama - France 65 percent.  Anyone who has been to Europe recently and talked to people will get that drift.  The Iraq war and how Bush has handled the war on terror has alienated billions of people.  I guess they like McCain in Northern Iraq (the Kurds), maybe hoping to break away under U.S. protection and have that oil money to themselves - build another Dubai?

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Posted: 20 August 2008 03:38 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]  
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Jefe - 20 August 2008 06:51 PM
Wotansson - 20 August 2008 05:44 PM

If you want to express an opinion, why not try your intelligent criteria on McCain and Obama?

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Wotansson

Sure.

I think they are both ignoring (or woefully understating) the three major issues that may make or break north america (and severely affect the rest of the world) in the next 10 years:

1) The Ouroboros of a Capitalist Economy/Society
2) The need for non-petroleum energy sources soon
3) The economic pressures on a consumer driven society by developing third-world and second-world nations toward a much higher petroleum use model, and manufacturing and export models, and how this may drastically affect sustainable local standards of living for extremely high numbers north americans (US citizens).

1. You will need to expand on this to make a more specific statement.

2. McCain has addressed his perspective on this to my satisfaction. He sees the solution as a multi-pronged with nuclear, solar, wind and oil drilling, all playing a part. He is right but I heard this as far back as 1974 from the powers that were and virtually nothing happened. The other critical requirement is that the US become independent of foreign oil in order to remove the oil dimension from foreign policy. Related is the problem of global warming. The US has signed up from the Bali accords scheduled for 2012. Lets see what happens. Non-participation in the Kyoto accords is a US national shame.

3. Per 2 above, the US needs to withdraw from the global petroleum market via energy independence and support the Bali agreements. Global conformity will be required. Technology can lead us out of this. I am convinced. North American will be subjected to a lower standard of living but it is not popular for politicians to admit or address this. The same will be true for Europe as the west become less competitive in the global markets.

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Wotansson

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Posted: 20 August 2008 03:52 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]  
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Jefe - 20 August 2008 07:17 PM
Wotansson - 20 August 2008 06:59 PM


The housing debacle is also the result of world events however much precipitated by the foolishness in the US.

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Wotansson

Here I disagree.  I think the US housing debacle was created by unscrupulous predatory lending practices, combined with a predatory flip-for-profit mentality in much of north-america (and the US) and further fueled by irresponsible governmental checks on financing policies that were built to fail.

The good news is that Canada’s bank trade doesn’t allow for the same sort of ballooning-interest contracts on mortgages (though we do have interest rate fluctuations), however the general depression in the US is definitely dragging our real-estate market down significantly, hurting a lot of people not directly involved in the US Lending fiasco.

I am not sure we disagree here but I think more emphasis should be placed on the role and responsibility of the individual. Flippers were only a part of this. The others were those who knew they could not actually afford what they were doing but planned on default after the first year or 2. Nice place to live for a few years kind of mentality.
The others were those who were too inept to ask the appropriate questions. The impacts were far reaching. Some foreign municipal retirement funds bought up this paper and lost everything.

The US will now legislate new rules but the damage is done and the taxpayer will bear the burden.


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Wotansson

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Posted: 20 August 2008 03:59 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]  
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Unbeliever - 20 August 2008 06:40 PM
Wotansson - 20 August 2008 06:37 PM

Enough.

Oh, well played.


What I actually said was:

Enough. You are appearing to be even more stupid than you were in your first post.

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Wotansson

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Posted: 20 August 2008 10:15 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]  
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Wotansson - 20 August 2008 07:59 PM
Unbeliever - 20 August 2008 06:40 PM
Wotansson - 20 August 2008 06:37 PM

Enough.

Oh, well played.


What I actually said was:

Enough. You are appearing to be even more stupid than you were in your first post.

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Wotansson

I dont blame you for running out of arguments, thats what happens when you are arguing an empty case, or in that situation no case at all.

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