Sam Harris

Montague - 29 October 2008 10:16 PM

Maybe it’s not a huge deal, but still, isn’t this what separate countries are for?  Why not just encourage these people to move to the Middle East?  I guess some of them came because they were being politically oppressed in the countries that they came from and many were born in the UK, but I imagine it’s still thousands coming every year.  Also, if it includes divorice and inheritance, that might not be criminal, but it still might pretty serious in terms of the importance of the cases.

The reason we have a lot of Muslims here is that we offered British citizenship to all inhabitants of former colonies at the time of their independence, fondly imagining that that would be a way of maintaining British culture and influence in those countries without the bother and expense of ruling them.

A lot of Indians, Sikhs and Pakistanis took up the offer after 1947, when they realised that they could make a lot more money in the UK than they could where they were. Later we got a whole flood from East Africa, where we had originally exported them to help with clerical and infrastructure work in the colonies there.

So why do Pakistanis need their own courts and not the Sikhs, Indians, or anyone else? (I hear you ask)

Like Judaism, Islam is as much a legal system as it is a religion. There are no other religions that possess this feature (which is one reason why I argue in another thread that Islam is no more than an attempt to re-establish Judaism in the face of the perceived Christian heresy). Because both religions run contrary to human nature, Jews and Muslims have to go to their holy books to find out what to do and what not to do. If they can’t, they feel frustrated and morally at a loss, and as we know, such conditions can easily lead to radicalisation.

With other cultures and religions it’s not a problem, because observing the legal system of the country you are in does not affect your religious observance.

Why don’t we send them back where they came from? Firstly they were British citizens to begin with, secondly they have produced two generations of British offspring. If the global economic downturn, which promises to be severe, proves favourable to the eastern economies, I predict that many of them will be off back there. Let’s hope they take some sense of British fairness with them when they go.

bigredfutbol - 30 October 2008 01:27 PM

Dee - 30 October 2008 04:56 AM

Okay Bigredfutbol - why are you stuck on something I said about three months ago ( I think it was )  ?  That I commented on Obama’s hair is no real big deal is it ? Why are you so miffed about it ? You are the one who can’t stop thinking about it .  My words must have hit a nerve . That guy who talks just like a Southern Baptist black evangilist preacher is just a spit away from being our president. He WILL be our president.  By and by the hair subject is bound to be brought up. Get over it .

We wouldn’t want a President who talks like a black guy, now would we, Dee? 

Oddly enough, I’d just updated my sig line before reading your post, given that you’ve been replaced as my favoritist poster here.  I hope you don’t think this coincidence had anything to do with your post; after all, as you noted the “hair subject is bound to be brought up.”  You can’t blame me for being focused on the issues, can you?

Just one more comment on that hair stuff- okay , bigred ?  Think of it this way : In a way, we, the Sam Harris fans and atheists are rebels. All over this planet any person who spreaks up and says religion is a disgusting and destructive pain in the glass ,and those who wear it like a halo, or exploit it to manipulate the way others think, are all a lot of suckers or sucker’s victoms—-; any protester - gets super-snobbed by society.  It is unfair to have to pretend to see things as the world wants us to see it .  My point is :  that everyone wants to get on the Obama bandwagon and there is nothing but praise, praise for him. I rebel against feeling like an outcast because I say Barack Obama is sucessful because he is black. People want to believe his color has nothing to do with his getting so much support. To say he will land the job because he has the vote of 98 % of the black people all around the world is to be dispised and called a liar. And when he gets in the White House and becomes our King of the land, the same thing will happen : anyone who critcizes him will be called a “racist ” . Wait and see. You can’t tell the truth. Whether it’s religion or politics. I musn’t have said anything about his hair—-yikes—-people will think he’s got an African-American’s hair !!  Stick with me baby, bigred : I’m a martyr .

Dee - 31 October 2008 05:06 AM

bigredfutbol - 30 October 2008 01:27 PM

Dee - 30 October 2008 04:56 AM

Okay Bigredfutbol - why are you stuck on something I said about three months ago ( I think it was )  ?  That I commented on Obama’s hair is no real big deal is it ? Why are you so miffed about it ? You are the one who can’t stop thinking about it .  My words must have hit a nerve . That guy who talks just like a Southern Baptist black evangilist preacher is just a spit away from being our president. He WILL be our president.  By and by the hair subject is bound to be brought up. Get over it .

We wouldn’t want a President who talks like a black guy, now would we, Dee? 

Oddly enough, I’d just updated my sig line before reading your post, given that you’ve been replaced as my favoritist poster here.  I hope you don’t think this coincidence had anything to do with your post; after all, as you noted the “hair subject is bound to be brought up.”  You can’t blame me for being focused on the issues, can you?

Just one more comment on that hair stuff- okay , bigred ?  Think of it this way : In a way, we, the Sam Harris fans and atheists are rebels. All over this planet any person who spreaks up and says religion is a disgusting and destructive pain in the glass ,and those who wear it like a halo, or exploit it to manipulate the way others think, are all a lot of suckers or sucker’s victoms—-; any protester - gets super-snobbed by society.  It is unfair to have to pretend to see things as the world wants us to see it .  My point is :  that everyone wants to get on the Obama bandwagon and there is nothing but praise, praise for him. I rebel against feeling like an outcast because I say Barack Obama is sucessful because he is black. People want to believe his color has nothing to do with his getting so much support. To say he will land the job because he has the vote of 98 % of the black people all around the world is to be dispised and called a liar. And when he gets in the White House and becomes our King of the land, the same thing will happen : anyone who critcizes him will be called a “racist ” . Wait and see. You can’t tell the truth. Whether it’s religion or politics. I musn’t have said anything about his hair—-yikes—-people will think he’s got an African-American’s hair !!  Stick with me baby, bigred : I’m a martyr .

When you find yourself in a hole, stop digging.

bigredfutbol - 31 October 2008 01:24 PM

Dee - 31 October 2008 05:06 AM

bigredfutbol - 30 October 2008 01:27 PM

Dee - 30 October 2008 04:56 AM

Okay Bigredfutbol - why are you stuck on something I said about three months ago ( I think it was )  ?  That I commented on Obama’s hair is no real big deal is it ? Why are you so miffed about it ? You are the one who can’t stop thinking about it .  My words must have hit a nerve . That guy who talks just like a Southern Baptist black evangilist preacher is just a spit away from being our president. He WILL be our president.  By and by the hair subject is bound to be brought up. Get over it .

We wouldn’t want a President who talks like a black guy, now would we, Dee? 

Oddly enough, I’d just updated my sig line before reading your post, given that you’ve been replaced as my favoritist poster here.  I hope you don’t think this coincidence had anything to do with your post; after all, as you noted the “hair subject is bound to be brought up.”  You can’t blame me for being focused on the issues, can you?

Just one more comment on that hair stuff- okay , bigred ?  Think of it this way : In a way, we, the Sam Harris fans and atheists are rebels. All over this planet any person who spreaks up and says religion is a disgusting and destructive pain in the glass ,and those who wear it like a halo, or exploit it to manipulate the way others think, are all a lot of suckers or sucker’s victoms—-; any protester - gets super-snobbed by society.  It is unfair to have to pretend to see things as the world wants us to see it .  My point is :  that everyone wants to get on the Obama bandwagon and there is nothing but praise, praise for him. I rebel against feeling like an outcast because I say Barack Obama is sucessful because he is black. People want to believe his color has nothing to do with his getting so much support. To say he will land the job because he has the vote of 98 % of the black people all around the world is to be dispised and called a liar. And when he gets in the White House and becomes our King of the land, the same thing will happen : anyone who critcizes him will be called a “racist ” . Wait and see. You can’t tell the truth. Whether it’s religion or politics. I musn’t have said anything about his hair—-yikes—-people will think he’s got an African-American’s hair !!  Stick with me baby, bigred : I’m a martyr .

When you find yourself in a hole, stop digging.

Did I say something untrue ?  You know that’s not the case.I think I know what you mean, though- I should grin and bear it. Allow myself to be a pretender . That is dishonest, but that’s what you have to do to get along in this society.  Obama’s sucess and the black vote is a worthy subject.  Shall we meet on the “politics” subject on this forum ?