Sam Harris

I really enjoy this fellow’s story.

http://khalas.wordpress.com/

I’ve seen some ex-Muslims write testimonials with something as simple and pointless as leaving Islam because they ‘found Jesus’ or had one bad experience that could have happened in any setting. Him initially being a convert aside, his story has a lot of parallels to my own in terms of his reasons and even in terms of newer interests (skeptical Buddhism for example). I encourage people to check this out.

In short:

A troubled person with a poorly-grounded personality falls prey to fundamentalists and their comforting certainties. Eventually he realizes how far he’s gone and rejects it.

Not a new story. If he hadn’t found that Mass Movement he’d have found another.

telner - 30 November 2008 07:04 AM

In short:

A troubled person with a poorly-grounded personality falls prey to fundamentalists and their comforting certainties. Eventually he realizes how far he’s gone and rejects it.

Not a new story. If he hadn’t found that Mass Movement he’d have found another.

Indeed, not an uncommon story, which is why it’s important. If it was atypical, it would not be worth much. A lot of his observations, however, are dead on, and he provides a reasoned critique rather than simply becoming some born again anti-Muslim hack or any such nonsense.

Abu Sayf Al-Naziri - 24 November 2008 03:46 PM

I really enjoy this fellow’s story.

http://khalas.wordpress.com/

I’ve seen some ex-Muslims write testimonials with something as simple and pointless as leaving Islam because they ‘found Jesus’ or had one bad experience that could have happened in any setting. Him initially being a convert aside, his story has a lot of parallels to my own in terms of his reasons and even in terms of newer interests (skeptical Buddhism for example). I encourage people to check this out.

That was quite interesting Abu. I’m glad he (and you too), made it out of the maze of this xenophobic/xenocentric, martyr-loving, pro-punishment cult-classic religion called islam, intact.

Tragic that he felt so unloved by his parents… one can’t help but wonder if they had been more affectionate and supportive, if he might not have suffered so much, nor longed for or sought validation from religion and an imaginary deity of al-tawheed. (Poor lad, he could have just gone to a U2 concert and witnessed them performing “One” to fulfill that particular need of his.)

I find it odd, however, that he claims to miss doing wudoo (ablution)... at the risk of sounding insensitive, how hard is it to blow one’s nose and clean one’s ears and wash one’s neck, feet etc. without the shouting shahalalala or whatever it was…

I also wonder if he got treatment for his clinical depression.

P.S. what or who is the salafiyoon?

isocratic infidel - 30 November 2008 11:41 PM

Abu Sayf Al-Naziri - 24 November 2008 03:46 PM

I really enjoy this fellow’s story.

http://khalas.wordpress.com/

I’ve seen some ex-Muslims write testimonials with something as simple and pointless as leaving Islam because they ‘found Jesus’ or had one bad experience that could have happened in any setting. Him initially being a convert aside, his story has a lot of parallels to my own in terms of his reasons and even in terms of newer interests (skeptical Buddhism for example). I encourage people to check this out.

That was quite interesting Abu. I’m glad he (and you too), made it out of the maze of this xenophobic/xenocentric, martyr-loving, pro-punishment cult-classic religion called islam, intact.

Tragic that he felt so unloved by his parents… one can’t help but wonder if they had been more affectionate and supportive, if he might not have suffered so much, nor longed for or sought validation from religion and an imaginary deity of al-tawheed. (Poor lad, he could have just gone to a U2 concert and witnessed them performing “One” to fulfill that particular need of his.)

I find it odd, however, that he claims to miss doing wudoo (ablution)... at the risk of sounding insensitive, how hard is it to blow one’s nose and clean one’s ears and wash one’s neck, feet etc. without the shouting shahalalala or whatever it was…

I also wonder if he got treatment for his clinical depression.

P.S. what or who is the salafiyoon?

Rituals we have invested with meaning are difficult to give up. I miss doing saalat (the 5 times daily prayer) sometimes myself even though intellectually I know that it serves no purpose and the being I would be speaking to in Arabic most likely is not there. I’ve also had difficulty not beginning ritual ablution when I wash my hands or shower. So I do know what he means. I have a friend who was raised Russian Orthodox and is a secular humanist now who still uses worry beads. None of us are unaffected by our upbringing.

Salafiyoon, e.g Salafis, are a very back to basics Muslim movement, much like an Islamic version of the Protestant Reformation. It was started by Sheik Bin Taimiah centuries ago. Most people we would call “wahabis” would call themselves “salafis”. It refers to the salaf, that is to say, the first three generations of Muslims, who are seen as the best source of orthodoxy. The fact that the salaf were killing each other before Muhamed’s body was even cold doesn’t seem to matter.

Abu, thank you for responding. I found Abdul’s story highly informative. The techniques and methods used by islam do not vary much from other religions seeking converts, aye? 

So are the Salafis akin to the head imams of the muslim brotherhood in Egypt?

I find it extremely unethical and inhumane that malevolent acts committed by muslims are viewed as acceptable by fellow “moderate” muslims simply because they are fellow muslims. It’s sadly reminiscent of certain white people thinking it’s okay to commit heinous acts on “non whites” just because they’re not “white.” When will this type of tribally primitive thinking go away?

Abu: Rituals we have invested with meaning are difficult to give up. I miss doing saalat (the 5 times daily prayer) sometimes myself even though intellectually I know that it serves no purpose and the being I would be speaking to in Arabic most likely is not there. I’ve also had difficulty not beginning ritual ablution when I wash my hands or shower. So I do know what he means. I have a friend who was raised Russian Orthodox and is a secular humanist now who still uses worry beads. None of us are unaffected by our upbringing.

I truly understand Abu, but rituals such as this can cause tics, or even obsessive compulsive disorder [OCD]. Religions that teach this type of redundant ritualization are using this habit-creating method in order to create a mild form of mental illness in their “members.” I would think you would be relieved not to have to redundantly recite redundant prayers five times a day…. I find it sadly odd, though I am not unsympathetic, that it is something that you miss.

I hesitantly suggest that every time you start to recite such redundancy in your head that you deliberately do something to break the loop of thought circulating in your head.

While it’s true that none of us are unaffected by our upbringing, it is wise, as adults, to break free of any mentally and emotionally unhealthy effects from that upbringing.

Dump the bad baggage as it were.

The idea is to rise above and beyond any of the negative repercussions our upbringings may have on us.

I like you and your silly avatar pigs, Abu.  I hope you shctick around.