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Brokeback Mountain
Posted: 26 January 2006 05:11 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]  
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Yeh, we know you stand by your version of Jesus, Champ, but please answer my questions regarding Hollywood’s suppossed placing of deviant behavior on a pedastle.  Don’t let your faith be a conversation stopper!

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Posted: 26 January 2006 12:03 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]  
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dfhusky, that is obvious. I mean deviant behavior is lauded and Christian behavior is reviled. Or, they’ll do the Christian thing (good works), only the “Christian” part is left out, conveniently.

dfhusky, lets review. What is immoral behavior? According to the bible, any of the 10 commandments. Break just one and you’re a sinner going to hell (ever broke one?). That is why Christ came, to bring redemption to mankind, because mankind was lost and full of sin. Did Christ make any of us perfect? No, but we’re commanded to make an attempt (run the race…if you may) to strive to live as Christ did. Do we make mistakes? Yes, all the time. But he is faithful to forgive us our transgressions. Do some use his grace as an opportunity to fulfill the desires of the flesh? Yes. But those folks are like the lost little lamb. The Shepard left the flock in order to find the lost little lamb and bring him back into the fold. Is that lamb you?

So yes dfhusky, we are pretty clear on certain immoral behaviors. However, it goes further with the New Testament as Christ basically said if you think it, you’ve done it (in reference to lust). The Apostle Paul instructs us to FLEE fornication (all sexual activity outside of marriage). But what does Hollywood do? It shows the actors running to it, usually with no consequences (i.e., disease, pregnancy, broken hearts, broken marriages, and so forth).

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Posted: 26 January 2006 02:10 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]  
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[quote author=“TheChampion”]Hey SkepticX, whats with the disappearing act every month? You pop up once every quarter to bash the faith-based posters?


I check the forum and post pretty regularly, but I have a pretty good idea why you don’t see my posts more than that—I tend not to bother with topics that have been hijacked. I also have an idea as to why it would appear to some as if I were bashing faith-based thinkers—I tend to comment fairly often on poor reasoning, intellectual irresponsibility and arrogance.

That’s what I expect to find in this topic from now on, more or less, so I’ll probably drop in for a while longer and then abandon it—write it off. We’ll see though. It’s a great movie.

Byron

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Posted: 29 January 2006 10:02 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]  
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Yeah.. whatever…...this forum is way too clicky and dominated by a few regular posters and some not so regular but equally obnoxious. Never heard that one before…that my faith makes it so! LOL

back to the movie…yeah its a great movie
and its causing a fair amount of kerfluffle around the place, specially for the christians who think its about the homosexulisation of society, (even thou’ they haven’t seen it). The movie…well only so much can be said about it really.

Read this, its a great little alternative to the same old crap spouted here by ‘you people’....whoever they are?!

 

quotes part of the interview…...........R. ALBERT MOHLER, JR., PRESIDENT, SOUTHERN BAPTIST THEOLOGICAL SEMINARY: I’ve not seen the movie, Larry, and that’s a matter of decision, not just a matter of chance. Like others, I don’t feel any need to see the movie. I have read the screenplay. I know the short story and, of course, I know what the movie is about because it’s out there so much in the media.

That’s the main issue. I am not a movie critic. I really can’t speak to the cinematography. I can just speak to what the cultural meaning of this film is and why I see it as a great challenge.

KING: Didn’t the short story move you at all?

MOHLER: Well, no, actually…

KING: For example, you’re a reverend, didn’t you have some compassion for what happened to the younger one of the two?

MOHLER: Well, absolutely. You have to feel compassion when anyone feels pain and when anyone goes through that kind of struggle. But, you know, I really am horrified to think about where that story ended.

You know my main concern, Larry, is not with the gospel of heterosexuality, even though I think that’s very important. It’s with the gospel of Jesus Christ and what I find lacking in the movie, the screenplay and in the short story is any resolution that really brings these persons to know why they were created and how God really intends them to live and how they would find their greatest satisfaction in living just as God had intended them for his glory.

KING: Does it disturb you that apparently there’s no record of Christ having had a heterosexual relationship?

MOHLER: No, as a matter of fact, Christ was single, celibate and yet he had a lot to say about sex. He normalized marriage and said that marriage is absolutely normative and, you know, even with a woman caught in adultery he said “Go and sin no more.”

And there’s no doubt that the Christian gospel, the gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John and the entirety of the New Testament present a comprehensive celebration of marital sex as one of God’s greatest gifts but also as a gift that has to be kept within the boundaries that God has given us and that is heterosexual marriage.

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Posted: 16 February 2006 10:34 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]  
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I would think that homosexuality might be one of the things Christians and Evolutionists could agree upon. Put simply, homesexuals are an aberation in creation. They can’t procreate therefore they have no bloodlines or descendants. Apparently it must be a screw-up in their genes.

I know that Atheists and Secularist don’t agree with us on this point because I guess from their point of view “If it feels good do it” is the overriding theme.

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Posted: 17 February 2006 01:18 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]  
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Actually it’s a natural population control mechanism that we see in all sorts of critters when, believe it or not, the population gets too dense.

Besides the fact it has precisely no bearing on anyone else and therefore shouldn’t even register as any kind of issue to anyone but homosexuals themselves. All this weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth, and the alleged victims can’t even produce the slightest evidence of any actual offense. How incredibly fragile such people are! The whole reaction is utterly ludicrous, on par with investing massive amounts of money and holding huge, passionate protests over the fact that people can wear “inappropriately” colored shoe laces . . . even in public! Oh, how can our society possibly bear such poor shoe lace color choices!?

And they’re taken seriously to the point that they actually managed to get the equivalent of what colors of shoe laces are allowed in public onto ballots all over the country, and they won by landslides in every casethat’s both amazing and depressing. How did this utterly revolting nonsense manage to develop in a country allegedly founded upon freedom and the sovereignty of the individual!?

This twisted, narcissistic anti-gay neurosis couldn’t be much more contrary to the most fundamental traditional American values—freedom and the sovereignty of the individual.

Byron

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“We say, ‘Love your brother…’ We don’t say it really, but… Well we don’t literally say it. We don’t really, literally mean it. No, we don’t believe it either, but… But that message should be clear.”—David St. Hubbins

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Posted: 17 February 2006 02:28 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]  
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SkepticX,

Actually it’s a natural population control mechanism that we see in all sorts of critters when, believe it or not, the population gets too dense.

While I share most of your sentiment, this statement may need comment. I think your reasoning falls apart a bit when we notice that even sparsely populated areas have their share of homosexuals. I suspect, but have not researched it, that all societies since antiquity have had about the same proportion of true homosexuals that we have, as opposed to homosexual behavior among straight people that would vary depending on situation and cultural acceptance. It was interesting to see stories of “fancy boys” in small tribes of American Indians, told by early explorers. 

Since homosexuality is noted in all populations of humans, it is reasonable to postulate a genetic mechanism, which may very well be coupled to variations in maternal hormone levels in utero which are critical for “normal” brain and sexual development. In a sense, if something can go wrong it will, with a certain regularity. Whether homosexuality has any evolutionary benefit for the species as a whole, I can’t personally postulate a reasonable answer. I would note though, that many women find gay men attractive…could this be a plus? But by definition since it is a natural occurance, it has not necessarily been selected against, except to keep rates somewhere around, what, six to ten percent.

At any rate, discriminating against people for who they are, I think is against any trend of modern enlightenment. Just another example of the moral failure of dogmatic religious beliefs.

Later, Rod

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Posted: 17 February 2006 03:25 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]  
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[quote author=“Rod”][quote author=“Byron”]Actually it’s a natural population control mechanism that we see in all sorts of critters when, believe it or not, the population gets too dense.

I think your reasoning falls apart a bit when we notice that even sparsely populated areas have their share of homosexuals.


You’re right. I should have said “which we see increase in all sorts of critters . . . ”

But that was more of a quip than anything—just wanted to point out the fact that homosexuality is perfectly natural to address HS’s “aberation” comment (hadn’t seen but one other HS post at the time—now I wouldn’t bother).

Byron

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“We say, ‘Love your brother…’ We don’t say it really, but… Well we don’t literally say it. We don’t really, literally mean it. No, we don’t believe it either, but… But that message should be clear.”—David St. Hubbins

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Posted: 21 February 2006 03:12 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]  
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I’ve not posted in a while, but this caught my eye.  I saw this movie last Friday, and I still haven’t recovered.  While my politics would no doubt be much closer to those of Sceptic X than the Champ, I was surprised by how apolitical the movie felt.  It was not a pro- or anti gay movie, really, at least not to me.  It was about loss, redemption, compromise; the lies we tell to others and to ourselves.  The movie was beautifully acted, gorgeously shot, perfectly scored.  The writers included plenty of ambiguity about the motivations and actions of the characters - was Ennis really “gay,”  or did he just fall in love w/ Jack?  does it matter?  Was Jack really murdered, or was that just how Ennis pictured it?  What happened to Ennis next?  - that I’ll be thinking about this one for a long time.  An incredible movie, a profound accomplishment on the part of all involved.  Champ, think about seeing it.  You won’t turn into a pumpkin, or go to Hell, or run out of the theater to join an all-male review.  I challenge anyone, yourself included, to see this film and not be moved.

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Posted: 21 February 2006 09:34 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]  
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[quote author=“mhatter13”]I’ve not posted in a while, but this caught my eye.  I saw this movie last Friday, and I still haven’t recovered.  While my politics would no doubt be much closer to those of Sceptic X than the Champ, I was surprised by how apolitical the movie felt.  It was not a pro- or anti gay movie, really, at least not to me.  It was about loss, redemption, compromise; the lies we tell to others and to ourselves.  The movie was beautifully acted, gorgeously shot, perfectly scored.  The writers included plenty of ambiguity about the motivations and actions of the characters - was Ennis really “gay,”  or did he just fall in love w/ Jack?  does it matter?  Was Jack really murdered, or was that just how Ennis pictured it?  What happened to Ennis next?  - that I’ll be thinking about this one for a long time.  An incredible movie, a profound accomplishment on the part of all involved.  Champ, think about seeing it.  You won’t turn into a pumpkin, or go to Hell, or run out of the theater to join an all-male review.  I challenge anyone, yourself included, to see this film and not be moved.

Sounds interesting mhatter13, but I can’t get around the hunch that this is all part of a secret agenda by the left to normalize homosexual relations, or at least another attempt to familiarize red state America with the behavior. I don’t like attempts by movies to politically or cuturally sway me. I just want to be entertained for the 300 bucks it cost to get to a movie these days. Well, not 300, but sure seems like it.

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Posted: 25 February 2006 10:45 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]  
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Here’s how it works in civilized areas—

Consenting adults do whatever they want to one another in the privacy of their own space.

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Posted: 26 February 2006 12:06 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]  
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I can’t get around the hunch that this is all part of a secret agenda by the left to normalize homosexual relations

You have this hunch eh? You didn’t read or hear from some conservative pundit that this was the case, YOU HAVE A HUNCH?

You’re a liar.

And I have news for you: Homosexual relations ARE ALREADY normal. They always have been. Every group of people has it’s homosexuals. EVERY group. Even apes and monkeys display homosexual behavior in around 11% of their population. In some naturally observed primate populations, bi-sexuality among females is as high as 50%.

When you’re sitting in church later today, look around and try to guess the 11% of YOUR CONGREGATION who ARE GAY.

What you and your fundie brethren don’t seem to realize is that, long before there were even humans ON this planet (Oh wait, that’s not something you DON’T realize, it’s something about which you’re in denial), primates were using a system of sex for power. They traded sexual favors for things like babysitting or hunting or grooming.

Try googling “homosexuality in primates” (you are a primate, incidentally).

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Posted: 26 February 2006 03:02 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]  
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Morning monkeyman666, several things.

First off, I certainly do not need a conservative pundit to educate me on something that my eyes already see. I will admit, I was not politically engaged until later in my life. But looking back, it was obvious that 90% of the faith based characters were portrayed as socially flawed while their non believing counterparts were portrayed as having the stronger moral fiber and courage. Actually, in many cases the faith based person screws everything up and the non believer has to clean up the mess. You see this in popular culture time and time again. Heck, even in the news media, for the past 30 years conservatives were viewed with suspicion while liberals were viewed as normal.

But then again, that would be considered normal from the Christian point of view, as the world loves and lauds its own. The world and God are oil and water as far as the Christian is concerned. The Christain is in the world, but not of the world. So why am I complaining? Well, actually, I’m not. But I appear to do so because I too have an agenda (in case you didn’t know, LOL). My agenda is to shine light in the darkness and hopefully be used by the King of Kings to bring enlightenment to the proud arrogant men and women who stand behind a variety of things to keep themselves in the darkness, such as education and science and man’s reasoning.

You say that homosexual relations are considered normal. Well I don’t know if that is necessarily true. Looking back at history homosexuals were often persecuted and abused. Matter of fact this was the case even in the USA up until recent times. I might be wrong, but never in history has the homosexual enjoyed such legitimacy. Never before has the homosexual been able to come out of the closet without having to endure scorn and/or abuse. Mind you, for the homosexual’s sake, I certainly do not advocate the world goes back to its earlier ways. I guess all I am saying is when it comes to the question of normalcy, are we smarter than past generations who did not accept the behavior?

The issue will probably be debated as long as man resides on this earth. But my message to the homosexual is the same as to the heterosexual. As a Christian, the message to the world is that all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. Therefore all men should come to their senses and put their faith in God. And after the conversion occurs, the Lord commands that we act holy and set apart from the world. The Apostle Paul says to flee immorality. The bible doesn’t say its bad to sin. It says sin not because its bad for you. God is saying, hey, this is bad for you, its going to hurt you, therefore I am telling you not to do it. The wages of sin is death and separation from God. But those who receive Christ will receive God’s tender mercies and salvation.

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Posted: 27 February 2006 10:36 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]  
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[quote author=“TheChampion”]You say that homosexual relations are considered normal. Well I don’t know if that is necessarily true.

As a Christian, the message to the world is that all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. Therefore all men should come to their senses and put their faith in God. And after the conversion occurs, the Lord commands that we act holy and set apart from the world. The Apostle Paul says to flee immorality. The bible doesn’t say its bad to sin. It says sin not because its bad for you. God is saying, hey, this is bad for you, its going to hurt you, therefore I am telling you not to do it. The wages of sin is death and separation from God. But those who receive Christ will receive God’s tender mercies and salvation.

Nice sermon but not nearly as entertaining as a real live preacher man in god’s own church..why he’s got a real live congregation to boot…not some pissy little chatroom to preach at!
 

Its commonly refered to as bigotry!....

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Posted: 27 February 2006 11:11 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]  
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[quote author=“Humble Servant”]I would think that homosexuality might be one of the things Christians and Evolutionists could agree upon. Put simply, homesexuals are an aberation in creation. They can’t procreate therefore they have no bloodlines or descendants. Apparently it must be a screw-up in their genes.

I know that Atheists and Secularist don’t agree with us on this point because I guess from their point of view “If it feels good do it” is the overriding theme.

What do you mean “can’t procreate”? I have two gay friends who have kids.

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Philosophy may in no way interfere with the actual use of language; it can in the end only describe it. For it cannot give it any foundations either. It leaves everything as it is.
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