Sam Harris

I prefer to start with KJ and refer to NRSV when occasionally befuddled by archaisms.

For extra fun beyond the Apocrypha, pick up a translation of the Nag Hammadi library.

Giova - 09 January 2009 06:45 AM

GAD - 09 January 2009 06:06 AM

Which just happens to correspond with Hellenistic period. Coincidence, I think not.  BTW your well versed, most people don’t know that there was no heaven, hell or devil in the OT.

And Cyrus the Great and his Zoroastrian influence. It’s a pity it’s not well known, much like how Judaism was originally a polytheistic religion until it morphed into a specter of monotheism due to purely political reasons. This knowledge though is perhaps becoming more widespread.

There are striking parallels to be sure, but then the OT is a mix of many myths, it’s cosmology for instance parallels the Enuma Elish.

In any case I haven’t seen much in the way of scholarly work around Zoroastrianism and Judaism.

This was about the best I found on line.
 
http://www.sullivan-county.com/z/zor5.htm

And this from wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoroastrianism

If you have any links or book recommendations on the subject please pass them along.

I suggest you journey to your local library and start using databases of scholarly journals like JSTOR and Project Muse.

There are countless articles, but here’s a part of a review of book analyzing the influences Zoroastrianism had on Judaism:

Hardly less absorbing than the central chapters on Iran and Anatolia is ch. 11 - on Zoroastrian contributions to Judaism, Christianity, and Roman Egypt. Jewish communities were close neighbours of the Iranians in Achaemenid times and later, not only in Iran, Babylonia, and Palestine, but also at Sardis, and indeed Hypaipa (391), besides no doubt elsewhere. Among doctrines possibly acquired by Judaism from Zoroastrianism may have been beliefs in a Day of Resurrection, and in a hierarchy of angels (405). Even the designation ‘Pharisees’ has been taken as ‘Persianisers’, while the demon Asmodeus in Tobit derives his name from the Avestan Aesma daeva, the ‘Demon of Wrath’.

Author(s): A. D. H. Bivar
Reviewed work(s):
A History of Zoroastrianism. 3: Zoroastrianism under Macedonian and Roman Rule, 1991, by M.
Boyce;F. Grenet;R. Beck
Source: The Journal of Roman Studies, Vol. 82 (1992), pg. 267
Published by: Society for the Promotion of Roman Studies

I found this article by inputting the words ‘Christianity,’ ‘Zoroastrianism,’ and ‘afterlife.’ There are countless others like it.

However, the view that Christian views (don’t know about Jewish) on the afterlife were influenced by Zoroastrianism may represent an outdated claim from the 19th century school of religion, Religionsgeschichtliche Schule:

He argues against the Religionsgeschichtliche Schule that Jewish and Christian views were not derived from Persian Zoroastrianism. He argues, mainly from the visions of heaven in the Acts of St Perpetua, that Christian views of the resurrection of the body were largely developed in response to the persecutions, ‘since it raised the question what would happen to the martyrs after their violent deaths’. He suggests that parallels to Christian doctrines in Zoroastrianism and mystery religions arose under the influence of Christianity, rather than the other way around.

Author(s): Wolf Liebeschuetz
Reviewed work(s):
The Rise and Fall of the Afterlife. The 1995 Read-Tuckwell Lecture at the University of
Bristol by J. N. Bremmer
Source: The Journal of Roman Studies, Vol. 94 (2004), p. 208

This book may be worth obtaining just to see how the Jewish view developed…

Mizfitz, you don’t really need to read different types of bibles to do battle with your boss. I mean it’s good to know a little bit, but you don’t have to know much.
It would be a little like reading different translations of Lord of the Rings because someone claimed it was an historical document. It wouldn’t matter if you read through the entire Silmarillion, LoTR would still remain fiction. No matter how many errors you would point out to the Tolkians in regards to their trinity of holy books, they would still believe Middle-Earth was a real place.
If I claimed that Frodo was a real hobbit that once saved the world, pointing out the “fact” by quoting text from Return of the King, how would you prove me wrong?
Don’t enter their make believe construct to do battle.

If you still want to prepare for a battle, chose books about argumentation, public speaking and text on how to stay cool in heated debate. Read books dealing with science issues you think might become battle points, evolution for example. Books about humanism issues, like equal rights. Google for statistics comparing secular nations with religious ones. Battle her with reality.

Oh, and let her be the one to start the battle.

Good luck!

Thank You Calm Wind.  That is some very good advice that I will be taking.  I will read the bibles that I just bought, just for shits and giggles, but I don’t think there is any type of “win/lose” situation when arguing with a fundie.  Dad has always threatened me with “Don’t ever start a fight or I’ll kick your ass - don’t ever lose a fight or I’ll kick your ass” LOL.  I am almost 50 and I still think of those words when I am about to get confrontational with someone.  I do need to work on staying cool.  It’s hard to rile me up to anger, but boy oh boy once I am there I do tend to lose it.  Maybe those anger management classes my boss sent me to (to handle my angry customers) will finally pay off.  Hey, it worked well with not killing my 5 sons!  Freaky that I would be using the very ammunition she paid for to do battle against her. 

Excellent battle points, and I will let her start…..or Dad will kick my ass!