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Posted: 22 January 2009 07:49 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 61 ]  
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Well Airy Spirit, Christians have spent the last seven years demolishing the history and artifacts of the Cradle if Civilization. And they didn’t use a scalpel. They used at least two trillion (with a “T”) dollars-worth of bombs, planes, tanks, bullets and missles.

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Posted: 22 January 2009 08:17 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 62 ]  
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telner - 22 January 2009 12:49 PM

Well Airy Spirit, Christians have spent the last seven years demolishing the history and artifacts of the Cradle if Civilization. And they didn’t use a scalpel. They used at least two trillion (with a “T”) dollars-worth of bombs, planes, tanks, bullets and missles.

That’s not the same thing, though, to be honest.  Without getting into a larger discussion of the Iraq War, there’s no parallel between it and a jihad or fatwa.

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Posted: 22 January 2009 08:48 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 63 ]  
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telner - 22 January 2009 12:49 PM

Well Airy Spirit, Christians have spent the last seven years demolishing the history and artifacts of the Cradle if Civilization. And they didn’t use a scalpel. They used at least two trillion (with a “T”) dollars-worth of bombs, planes, tanks, bullets and missles.

And indifference:

The Archaeological Institute of America, a Boston-based group with 9,000 members in the U.S. and Canada, had contacted government agencies as far as back as January about the danger of looting of Iraqs cultural sites. Institute President Jane Waldbaum said she was outraged first by the unchecked looting, and then by Rumsfeld’s response. “Donald Rumsfeld in his speech basically shrugged and said, ‘Boys will be boys. What’s a little looting?’” she said. “Freedom is messy, but freedom doesn’t mean you have the freedom to commit crimes. This loss is almost immeasurable.”

In the past few days, the U.S. Central Command in Qatar has tried softening Rumsfeld’s off-the-cuff remarks. “I don’t think anyone anticipated the riches of Iraq would be looted by the Iraqi people,” Brig. Gen. Vincent Brooks said Tuesday. In fact, however, the Pentagon, the State Department and the White House had been warned repeatedly, for months.

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Posted: 22 January 2009 09:12 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 64 ]  
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teuchter - 22 January 2009 01:48 PM
telner - 22 January 2009 12:49 PM

Well Airy Spirit, Christians have spent the last seven years demolishing the history and artifacts of the Cradle if Civilization. And they didn’t use a scalpel. They used at least two trillion (with a “T”) dollars-worth of bombs, planes, tanks, bullets and missles.

And indifference:

The Archaeological Institute of America, a Boston-based group with 9,000 members in the U.S. and Canada, had contacted government agencies as far as back as January about the danger of looting of Iraqs cultural sites. Institute President Jane Waldbaum said she was outraged first by the unchecked looting, and then by Rumsfeld’s response. “Donald Rumsfeld in his speech basically shrugged and said, ‘Boys will be boys. What’s a little looting?’” she said. “Freedom is messy, but freedom doesn’t mean you have the freedom to commit crimes. This loss is almost immeasurable.”

In the past few days, the U.S. Central Command in Qatar has tried softening Rumsfeld’s off-the-cuff remarks. “I don’t think anyone anticipated the riches of Iraq would be looted by the Iraqi people,” Brig. Gen. Vincent Brooks said Tuesday. In fact, however, the Pentagon, the State Department and the White House had been warned repeatedly, for months.

Rumsfeld bears a great deal of responsibility for what went wrong in Iraq.  The decision to allow the “looting”—which was really a complete breakdown in civil order and a complete abdication of our responsibility to the citizens of the state we had just toppled—to rage unchecked was a serious blow to our prestige and whatever goodwill ordinary Iraqis might have felt towards us.  We needed to show that, as the new sheriff in town, we could be trusted.  We failed, and much of the chaos, destruction, and loss of life which followed resulted from that criminal miscalculation.

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Posted: 23 January 2009 01:23 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 65 ]  
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bigredfutbol - 21 January 2009 11:08 AM
Dee - 21 January 2009 06:53 AM

Airy Spirit is right. He coulden’t be more right .

An endorsement from Dee—the kiss of death.

Airy Spirit, you’ve been warned.

Dee - 21 January 2009 06:53 AM

I’m astonished that people who participate on this forum know so little about the actual situation concerning the radical Muslims and thier intentions .

Do tell us ignorant hicks more about the horrible situation in the European nation of Muldivia, Dee.

Dee - 21 January 2009 06:53 AM

You don’t even realize that Islamists ( yes I said Islamists ) have already declared war against the West ; that is Europe and the free world.

Wow, you are the ONLY person here who recognizes the dangers from radical Islam.  I am all ears, sweetheart.

Dee - 21 January 2009 06:53 AM

It is obvious from the way you respond to a post like airy spirit’s that you really don’t understand.

I understand perfectly.  I understand that collective punishment for individual crimes is EXACTLY the sort of evil that irrational, “faith-based” belief systems engage in.  I understand that rational, civilized citizens of modern, secular societies abhore the sort of tribal, primitive bloodlust that the likes of you and arildno engage in.

Dee - 21 January 2009 06:53 AM

Do you know what is missing here ? PERSPECTIVE is missing !  Perspective comes when we climb the mountain of knowledge and we are able to look at a scene as a whole- not just as some little ( or even big ) incident , but the WHOLE thing.

HERE’S your perspective, genius—an individual engaged in theft and/or vandalism of a rare book.  It is a crime of theft, of property damage and vandalism, and cultural destruction.  This gentleman, unfortunately, is not the first person to do such a thing, nor is he the last.  Anyone who works in an archive, a research library, or a historical society knows that unfortunately this is one of the hazards of the profession.  Generally, when such events occur, nobody calls for expelling tens of millions of other people from their homes.  Because, generally, most people aren’t knee-jerk hateful idiots like you.

Dee - 21 January 2009 06:53 AM

It is the best lesson ever, because you can fit the peices together and know it for what it really is. The old saying “so close to the forest you can’t see the trees” applies very well here.

Sometimes, Dee, there is no forest.  And sometimes an individual act by an individual is simply that.

Dee - 21 January 2009 06:53 AM

Here we go again - you can’t wait to respond with a knee-jerk reaction that argues whether the post is valid or not . Why don’t you critics check out this Muslim- West situation before you hammer a poster as if he/she JUST HAS to be wrong ? But that would spoil your fun wouldn’t it ?

I’m not having fun—frankly, I get so fucking tired of bigots like you and arildno using atheism as a cover for your idiotic, lowest-common-denominator hatred that I sometimes wonder if being on this message board is even worth it.  Fortunately, most of the other people here are intelligent, insightful, and provocative, and I generally feel I’m not wasting my time.

Dee - 21 January 2009 06:53 AM

Then there’s always someone who starts throwing the past in our faces. When will people wake up ? The person who uses the past as a comparisn is way off the mark, and is using a last-ditch idea to make his case, and he is one big failure because it is NOW that we have to deal with troubles and threats in life. They are the things that matter. So what if Christians committed atrocities in the Middle ages - how is THAT going to have any bearing on what they are doing NOW ? What blatant stupidity . But that always happens. Also there’s always some Muslim apologists who thinks he’s being a hero; a hero with a heart of gold, someone who leaps to the defence of what he/she imagines is an underdog . Hurray, hurray-radicals who behave barbaricly and violate human rights aren’t so bad - they are ...what was it someone said here ? “Delightful people ” !

Nobody said Islamists are “delightful people” you liar.

Dee - 21 January 2009 06:53 AM

Now comes the big scolding :  Dee, you are SO WRONG, you are wrong to put all Muslims down and be so unfair that way . “All Muslims aren’t bad !”  “You are wrong to generalize that way !” ETC.  What you haven’t yet realized is that I DO NOT BLAME ALL MUSLIMS—for Gods sake NO ! Nobody here had to tell me it is not right to accuse all Muslims for things that only SOME of them mean trouble. (So far, that is .) I’ve thought that way all along.

And yet you agree that every single Muslim should be kicked out of Europe because of one single act of vandalism.  You’re so dumb you can’t even keep your lies straight.

Dee - 21 January 2009 06:53 AM

I am referring to the smaller population of Muslims who are hell-bent on destroying us. Not true about them ?  Okay, don’t take my word for it—just get more interested and check out the facts. Tune in; tune in like I have done for years, and THEN speak up about it .

And, NOW you qualify your statement.  And now you want to pat yourself on the back because you’ve won your own little strawman argument.  Congratulations, Einstein—now, tell me more about the dire situation in Muldivia.

Dee - 21 January 2009 06:53 AM

By the way , I just read an article today by Melanie Phillips (you don’t even know who she is, I’ll bet ) that presents a good case ;ONE case, for what I’m talking about . “Google’ is best ;it seems to work better for this website. : Melanie Phillips “Britain Surrenders” .

Good case for WHAT?  You can barely articulate a sentence, let alone a cohesive strategy for dealing with radical Islamic groups and countering their influence within the larger Muslim community in Britain, here, or anywhere else.  I have no idea what “case” you’re making, and I very much doubt that you do, either.

Dee - 21 January 2009 06:53 AM

You know how termites eat through a building—- nibbling one bite after the other…what seems to be a tiny , harmless critter soon chews up a whole building . So it is happening with the Muslim strategy . Few realize what is happening, and when a destructve force starts to come on you and yours ..I can hear it now : “What happened ?? Why are we being abused ( or pick a another word if suits you better ) WHY do they hate us ?????”

I’ve always found that the best, most rational, people win arguments by comparing a group of human beings to vermin and/or other subhuman creatures.  Oh wait—that’s actually what terrible, evil, vile people do.  My bad. 

Dee - 21 January 2009 06:53 AM

I hate to say this , but ignorance is swarming around this subject like so many gleeful hornets.

You’re the queen of the fucking hive, Dee.


Bigred,none of your comments actually deal with the problems I’ve been talking about, and that is because you first and foremostly are wanting to insult and belittle me. That is more of your objective than to analyse the issues I have in mind. Just what is your problem with me ? You sound like the very people you accuse of being full of hate, and bias. So I forgot how to spell the name of a place I was writing about- is that a great cause for such detestation you seem to have for me ? And you have made up your mind I’m a bigot. I guess that’s the worst thing a human being can be , at least according to the past 2 generations. You don’t realize it but your anxiety over prejudice and all that is almost a disease in our society by now. Must you be so typical ?  That abhorance of the judgeing any person unfairly has taken priority over the courage to stand up to others who have animosity towards us.  You think you are one of few who will not allow any prejudice to darken your door, and you are more afraid of hurting the feelings of the enemy than you are of him hurting others. But you are typical, and not a rare minority at all. That is the way it goes today, and I think that attitude will be the undoing of us all in the West .Your worrying about hurting the feelings of Muslims , for example plays right into thier hands. Even now, as you read this you have little idea of WHY I say the things I do ; you are still not waking up and smelling the coffee.

 


Did you ever consider putting your desire to hurt me ( and that’s what motivates you ) aside and really try to understand what I’m trying to say ? What if you gave me the benifit of the doubt and took some of my suggestions and an interest in what I suggest, check out these claims I make ? Forget about your spite for me and look into the facts. You can learn if you just allow yourself to stop thinking so negatively about what I say, and be determined to educate yourself on the subject(s) I have in mind to discuss.  How long has it been since you actually read a good book on the Muslim problem ? How involved have you been in groups or organizations who confront Islamo-facism, and make an effort to bring these problems into the view of the public ?  Did you check out that article by Melanie Phillips ?  London is being swamped by Islamic aggressive interference and thier intention to impose thier ideas of government, beliefs, and lifestyle on non-Muslim citizens.  As I said THAT is only ONE example,and the same conflicts are happening all over Europe. Brtain worried about “hurting thier feelings ” too . Likewise the Netherlands. I have a feeling they are finally begining to realize thier feelings should be a concern too. But maybe it’s too late .

 

Like me or not, Bigred, I know what I am talking about . I know—you think I don’t . Are you SURE I am wrong and /or mistaken ?? If I don’t know what I’m talking about why have I had the confidence to ask you to check out the facts from sources that are realiable, knowledgable, and from premier scholars on the subject?

 

But I’m probably foolish to think you’d do what I suggest, because if it turns out that what I say has value after all you will not be able to feel superior to me , as you do now .  What kind of a person are you anyway ? You get a lot of satisfaction out of calling me names and belittling me .That is so unconstructive. And if you want to get mad at something, forget your petty gripe against me, and save that anger for a Muslim clergy who say a 13 year old girl is to blame when a gang of pious Muslim men rape her . Now THAT is worth of your anger .

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Posted: 23 January 2009 05:35 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 66 ]  
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Piero - 22 January 2009 11:39 AM

SkepticX, surely you can see the difference between your garden-variety criminal and a religiously motivated terrorist. Even members of a Nazi party are different, because they can be fought with the usual legal and political weapons, whereas members of a religious creed could be, but are not.


That’s not the issue. You were arguing that Muslims should all be presumed likely terrorists because we can’t screen them to determine whether they are or not. I pointed out that the same argument could be made for virtually any class of human.

Piero - 22 January 2009 11:39 AM

And you must acknowledge that muslim immigrants are, because of their creed, intrinsically inimical to the values of secular democracies.


I gather you don’t know any Muslim immigrants, and probably no Muslims at all.

No, I must acknowledge no such nonsense.

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Posted: 23 January 2009 06:40 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 67 ]  
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Dee - 23 January 2009 06:23 AM

Bigred,none of your comments actually deal with the problems I’ve been talking about, and that is because you first and foremostly are wanting to insult and belittle me. That is more of your objective than to analyse the issues I have in mind.

The reason I’m unwilling to “deal with the problems [you’ve] been talking about” is because you live in a cartoon world.  It’s impossible for me to deal with “the issues” on your terms because your terms are so base, simplistic, and uninformed.  How many more posts are you going to write where the premise is:  Dee is the only person here who understand the threat of radical Islam, and the rest of you need to wake up. 

Dee - 23 January 2009 06:23 AM

Just what is your problem with me ?

You’re ignorant, and you’re a bigot. 

Dee - 23 January 2009 06:23 AM

You sound like the very people you accuse of being full of hate, and bias.

Oh, really?  When have I made a blanket statement about entire groups of people?

Dee - 23 January 2009 06:23 AM

So I forgot how to spell the name of a place I was writing about- is that a great cause for such detestation you seem to have for me ?

You forgot how to spell the name; you forgot what continent it’s in; and you said that it was being taken over by radical Muslim immigrants when in fact it’s a traditionally Muslim country with very little immigration from anywhere.  In other words, you used the Maldives as “proof” of the dangers of recent Muslim immigration into Europe, when the Maldives is actually a Muslim country, doesn’t have much immmigration at all, and isn’t even close to Europe.  And you don’t have the brains to figure out how clueless that makes you look.

Dee - 23 January 2009 06:23 AM

And you have made up your mind I’m a bigot.

You made that conclusion remarkably difficult to avoid.

Dee - 23 January 2009 06:23 AM

I guess that’s the worst thing a human being can be , at least according to the past 2 generations.

Actually, being a child molester or mass murderer is worse.

Dee - 23 January 2009 06:23 AM

You don’t realize it but your anxiety over prejudice and all that is almost a disease in our society by now. Must you be so typical ?

Oh, this is rich—the problem with our society is that we’re TOO concerned about bigotry, racism, and hatred.  That can’t be what you’re saying, is it?

Dee - 23 January 2009 06:23 AM

That abhorance of the judgeing any person unfairly has taken priority over the courage to stand up to others who have animosity towards us.

Holy fucking shit—it IS what you’re saying!  You honestly think that bigotry is somehow a necessary tool in the war against religious fanaticism!

Dee - 23 January 2009 06:23 AM

You think you are one of few who will not allow any prejudice to darken your door, and you are more afraid of hurting the feelings of the enemy than you are of him hurting others.

Keep punching that strawman, Dee. 

Dee - 23 January 2009 06:23 AM

But you are typical, and not a rare minority at all. That is the way it goes today, and I think that attitude will be the undoing of us all in the West .

Here we go—Dee the lone righteous crusader.  This is ALWAYS fun.

Dee - 23 January 2009 06:23 AM

Your worrying about hurting the feelings of Muslims , for example plays right into thier hands.

And you wonder why I harp on your ignorance and bigotry.  You are fundamentally incapable of conceiving of the struggle against Islamic fundamentalism as anything other than a indiscriminate attack on an aggregate group of human beings rather than their ideology.  And anyone who points out the self-defeating stupidity and questionable morality of your groupthink/collective identity mindset is simply prattling about “hurt feelings”.

Dee - 23 January 2009 06:23 AM

Even now, as you read this you have little idea of WHY I say the things I do ; you are still not waking up and smelling the coffee.

Cue the fucking string section.

Dee - 23 January 2009 06:23 AM

Did you ever consider putting your desire to hurt me ( and that’s what motivates you ) aside and really try to understand what I’m trying to say ?

I’m well aware of what you’re trying to say.

Dee - 23 January 2009 06:23 AM

What if you gave me the benifit of the doubt and took some of my suggestions and an interest in what I suggest, check out these claims I make ?

What claims would those be?  That the Maldives is a secular European country being overwhelmed by Muslim immigrants?  That Barack Obama’s hair is a symbol of his ill intentions?  That collective punishment of millions of European citizens is a rational response to a lone act of cultural vandalism?  Or are you thinking of yet another one of your half-baked, idiotic “ideas”?

Dee - 23 January 2009 06:23 AM

Forget about your spite for me and look into the facts. You can learn if you just allow yourself to stop thinking so negatively about what I say, and be determined to educate yourself on the subject(s) I have in mind to discuss.

I’ve always found that people who go on and on about “the facts” and “the issues” generally don’t have a command of either.

Dee - 23 January 2009 06:23 AM

How long has it been since you actually read a good book on the Muslim problem ?

What’s the Dewey Decimal or Libray of Congress classification for “the Muslim problem”?

Dee - 23 January 2009 06:23 AM

How involved have you been in groups or organizations who confront Islamo-facism, and make an effort to bring these problems into the view of the public ?

Oh, I can’t wait to hear about what groups or organizations YOU belong to.

Dee - 23 January 2009 06:23 AM

Did you check out that article by Melanie Phillips ?

Yes, I was already aware of her and her book.

Dee - 23 January 2009 06:23 AM

London is being swamped by Islamic aggressive interference and thier intention to impose thier ideas of government, beliefs, and lifestyle on non-Muslim citizens.

Ever been to London?  Know anyone who lives there?  That hasn’t been my experience over there at all, and our friends who live there sure don’t seem too worried about incipent Sharia law.

Dee - 23 January 2009 06:23 AM

As I said THAT is only ONE example,and the same conflicts are happening all over Europe.

You realize you’re not the only person here who knows about the rise of Islamic extremism in Europe, right?  You do realize that the rest of us read books and stuff?

Dee - 23 January 2009 06:23 AM

Brtain worried about “hurting thier feelings ” too . Likewise the Netherlands. I have a feeling they are finally begining to realize thier feelings should be a concern too. But maybe it’s too late .

Do me a favor and shut the fuck up about “feelings”.  You’re the only one here who really seems to care how anybody “feels” about these issues.  I know I don’t.

Dee - 23 January 2009 06:23 AM

Like me or not, Bigred, I know what I am talking about .

Like it or not, Dee, you have repeatedly undermined this claim.

Dee - 23 January 2009 06:23 AM

I know—you think I don’t . Are you SURE I am wrong and /or mistaken ?? If I don’t know what I’m talking about why have I had the confidence to ask you to check out the facts from sources that are realiable, knowledgable, and from premier scholars on the subject?

Hoo boy, you really are the misunderstood genius, aren’t you?

Dee - 23 January 2009 06:23 AM

But I’m probably foolish to think you’d do what I suggest, because if it turns out that what I say has value after all you will not be able to feel superior to me , as you do now .

Again with the feelings—I don’t HAVE any “feelings” about or towards you, Dee. 

Dee - 23 January 2009 06:23 AM

What kind of a person are you anyway ?

A happily-married father of two who enjoys his job, enjoys his hobbies and interests, and leads a fulfilling, active life. 

Dee - 23 January 2009 06:23 AM

You get a lot of satisfaction out of calling me names and belittling me .

No, not really. 

Dee - 23 January 2009 06:23 AM

That is so unconstructive.

So is spouting ignorant, half-baked rhetoric and wallowing in poorly-justified paranoia and bigotry, but that hasn’t stopped you yet.

Dee - 23 January 2009 06:23 AM

And if you want to get mad at something, forget your petty gripe against me, and save that anger for a Muslim clergy who say a 13 year old girl is to blame when a gang of pious Muslim men rape her . Now THAT is worth of your anger .

Oh gosh, if it hadn’t been for you, I never would have known that such things happen, nor that I should be morally outraged.

Get.  Over.  Yourself.  Your schtick is transparent and tiresome.

[ Edited: 23 January 2009 08:19 AM by bigredfutbol]
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Posted: 23 January 2009 07:46 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 68 ]  
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bigredfutbol - 23 January 2009 11:40 AM
Dee - 23 January 2009 06:23 AM

And if you want to get mad at something, forget your petty gripe against me, and save that anger for a Muslim clergy who say a 13 year old girl is to blame when a gang of pious Muslim men rape her . Now THAT is worth of your anger .


Oh gosh, if it hadn’t been for you, I never would have known that such things happen, nor that I should be morally outraged.

Get.  Over.  Yourself.  Your schtick is transparent and tiresome.


Quite, and consistently appealing to emotion while shifting context doesn’t help her credibility with anyone who thinks like an adult.

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Posted: 25 January 2009 05:58 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 69 ]  
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bigredfutbol, do you know what a fatwa is?
It’s nothing but a legal opinion by a religious scholar and has exactly as much weight as the respect people give him.

The invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan were treated by the former President’s fundamentalist supporters as a Crusade against the Muslims. High ranking officers wearing the Uniform referred to it as such. The Administration spoke of it in terms of a war between their god and Islam’s god.

To a lot of the people who ordered the killing it was a religious war.

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Posted: 26 January 2009 05:51 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 70 ]  
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telner - 25 January 2009 10:58 PM

bigredfutbol, do you know what a fatwa is?
It’s nothing but a legal opinion by a religious scholar and has exactly as much weight as the respect people give him.

The invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan were treated by the former President’s fundamentalist supporters as a Crusade against the Muslims. High ranking officers wearing the Uniform referred to it as such. The Administration spoke of it in terms of a war between their god and Islam’s god.

To a lot of the people who ordered the killing it was a religious war.

Yes, I know all that.  And it was wrong, and unecessary.  Appealing to such sentiments was one of the Bush Administrations many blunders.

Nevertheless, it was still formarly waged by a secular state for defined, political ends.  The distinction matters, even if the similarities are real and troubling.

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Posted: 26 January 2009 09:43 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 71 ]  
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I thought that sanctions from violations of law were applied to individuals,  and not to ideologies or theologies.  I’ve met a lot of people in prison for something they’d done, I’ve never met an ideology or theology walking around in prison.  An individual destroys some valuable artifact of history, or directly causes harm or injury to others, is held accountable for those actions; I did not think their expressed theology is itself on trial and certainly not others who may express some of that same theology.  A number of convicts I’ve met claimed it was not their fault for having assaulted or even killed someone, it was the alcohol.  I’ve never seen any bottles of Jim Beam walking around in prison either.

Dennis

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Truth, especially “moral truth,” is that elusive human creation whose exclusive apprehension is claimed by many, who then sanctimoniously condemn anyone else who does not agree with their particular apprehension, while denying that any question can be posed about their own apprehension.  I will try to avoid that tendency.  DEC

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Posted: 26 January 2009 10:09 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 72 ]  
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Dennis Campbell - 26 January 2009 02:43 PM

I’ve never seen any bottles of Jim Beam walking around in prison either.
Dennis

How about Pruno?

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Posted: 26 January 2009 02:08 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 73 ]  
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Dennis Campbell - 26 January 2009 02:43 PM

An individual destroys some valuable artifact of history, or directly causes harm or injury to others, is held accountable for those actions; I did not think their expressed theology is itself on trial and certainly not others who may express some of that same theology.

I saw that episode of Law & Order too. The best part was when they canvassed the Taliban’s neighborhood trying to dig up an eye witness.

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Posted: 26 January 2009 02:35 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 74 ]  
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There is another problem, IMO, when proposing to act against a whole class of people called “Muslim,” based on the acts of a few.  Seem to me by proposing that we’re behaving exactly as do religious fundamentalists of any religion, condemning masses of people based on some system of belief, or lack of it, we attach to that mass.  How is that different from the Mullah who screams that all infidels should be destroyed?

When people get aroused by fear and anger, they tend to become more generalized in their perceptions, and tend to not make discriminations. That’s one implication of the expression that as you get angrier, or more frightened, you get stupider.

I know of no war or cultural conflict in which both sides did not caste the other in simplistic, non-discriminatory terms that justify some retaliatory actions against the opposing group.  You kill Japs, Kikes, Sloops, rag-heads; honkies, and the list goes on, but not people.  People may need to be killed, especially if and as they attack us in an effort to cause harm.  But you cannot put a bullet into an ideology.

One of the conficting cultural differences between much of the western secular cultures and Islamic collectivistic cultures is that we have a tendency to judge individuals on the basis of individual behavior, not only the ideology they may espouse.  Fundamentalist Islamic, or for that matter Christian, cultures tend to be collectivistic, not individualistic, and they do not tend to respect individual rights. 

This thread’s original post reflects that tendency, and in so doing denies being considered “intellectual,” or “rational,” or “reasonable,” but bigoted. 

Dennis

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Truth, especially “moral truth,” is that elusive human creation whose exclusive apprehension is claimed by many, who then sanctimoniously condemn anyone else who does not agree with their particular apprehension, while denying that any question can be posed about their own apprehension.  I will try to avoid that tendency.  DEC

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Posted: 27 January 2009 01:43 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 75 ]  
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Dennis Campbell - 26 January 2009 07:35 PM

When people get aroused by fear and anger, they tend to become more generalized in their perceptions, and tend to not make discriminations. That’s one implication of the expression that as you get angrier, or more frightened, you get stupider.

One of the conficting cultural differences between much of the western secular cultures and Islamic collectivistic cultures is that we have a tendency to judge individuals on the basis of individual behavior, not only the ideology they may espouse.  Fundamentalist Islamic, or for that matter Christian, cultures tend to be collectivistic, not individualistic, and they do not tend to respect individual rights. 

This thread’s original post reflects that tendency, and in so doing denies being considered “intellectual,” or “rational,” or “reasonable,” but bigoted. 

Dennis

Anyone remember the Japanese Internment camps?  The forcible relocation of Japanese-Americans was based more on ancestry than ideology, I suppose, but the principle is still the same.  A whole “class” of people were herded up based on the fear that those of Japanese ancestry might perform acts of espionage or sabotage.  Amazingly,  upheld by the US Supreme Court.

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