4 of 4
4
Geithner and Summers need to go
Posted: 14 July 2009 11:42 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 46 ]  
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1639
Joined  2007-12-20

It’s time to check back in and see how my friends Timothy and Larry are doing:

http://www.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/2009062624/gut-check-time-shackling-wall-street


...71% of pollsters want Congress to hold investigations into the “events leading up to the Wall Street financial crisis.”

...The banking system is no doubt pushing hard to neuter the commission.  And here we see another cost of the decision by Treasury Sec Tim Geithner to subsidize the banks rather than reorganize them.  If his plan fails, we’ll be like Japan with the recovery burdened by zombie plans. If the plan works we’ll end up with the banks ‘too big to fail…......”

..If we don’t get comprehensive reforms now we will have created an even greater peril—-banks and hedge funds officially recognized as too big to fail, assuming they can pocket their winnings and and the public will cover their losses. This is a recipe for another crack up a few years from now…..”

 Signature 

“Every war is a war against children.”
Howard Zinn

Profile
 
 
Posted: 28 July 2009 12:00 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 47 ]  
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1485
Joined  2007-12-10
zelzo - 20 May 2009 08:32 PM

TH
I accept that last paragraph. Our main difference is that you see September as the goal line and I think we’ve already waited too long. Like I said, I would like to see where you are in September to see if you still have the same answer or if you will push that goal line back again. Time will tell.

Why do you insist on making things up out of whole cloth?  I never moved any goal posts back LJ/zelzo.  I said from the beginning we won’t be able to even see the effects of the stabilized market until after the fiscal years ended for most companies on June 30th, and that they won’t be making any decisions until late July or August at the earliest because of that.  Likewise, you are misrepresenting my views consistently in this thread.  You’re better than that.  I don’t see September as the goal line.  I see it as a alst line of defense which it seems to me won’t be necessary.

Congress is now working to pass new legislation on curbing the derivatives market and executive compensation. In the meantime, the DOW is rising again in a meaningful way, major corporations are trumpeting their quarterly profits (meaning good news for the prospect of future job creation in the coming 6 months), and new home purchases are starting major upticks.  No, we aren’t there yet.  We still have about a eyar left of heavy stimulus psending to push job creation in the coming 12 months.  But the foundation appears to have largely been laid for a recovery. 

And btw, Krugman has abandoned you.  He recently told Stephanopolis he may have been wrong about the need to nationalize the banks and suggests that some of the administration’s economic policies may have well turned out for the best against his earlier criticisms.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 22 August 2009 02:50 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 48 ]  
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1639
Joined  2007-12-20

tavishhill

Congress is now working to pass new legislation on curbing the derivatives market and executive compensation. In the meantime, the DOW is rising again in a meaningful way, major corporations are trumpeting their quarterly profits (meaning good news for the prospect of future job creation in the coming 6 months), and new home purchases are starting major upticks.  No, we aren’t there yet.  We still have about a eyar left of heavy stimulus psending to push job creation in the coming 12 months.  But the foundation appears to have largely been laid for a recovery.

The economy is improving. I have never argued that it wouldn’t get better. That is not the point. The point is there are no reforms being made on how Wall Street functions.  We won’t see any reforms as long as as Giethner and Summers are in. You have argued all along that we have to stabilize the economy before there can be reform. Now you are making my point that even with the stabilization indicators, there is not serious talk of reform.

And btw, Krugman has abandoned you.  He recently told Stephanopolis he may have been wrong about the need to nationalize the banks and suggests that some of the administration’s economic policies may have well turned out for the best against his earlier criticisms.

Don’t think so. He is still talking about the need for major reform.

The American economy remains in dire straits, with one worker in six unemployed or underemployed. Yet Goldman Sachs just reported record quarterly profits — and it’s preparing to hand out huge bonuses, comparable to what it was paying before the crisis. What does this contrast tell us?

First, it tells us that Goldman is very good at what it does. Unfortunately, what it does is bad for America.

Second, it shows that Wall Street’s bad habits — above all, the system of compensation that helped cause the financial crisis — have not gone away.

Third, it shows that by rescuing the financial system without reforming it, Washington has done nothing to protect us from a new crisis, and, in fact, has made another crisis more likely.

.....

Now the last time there was a comparable expansion of the financial safety net, the creation of federal deposit insurance in the 1930s, it was accompanied by much tighter regulation, to ensure that banks didn’t abuse their privileges. This time, new regulations are still in the drawing-board stage — and the finance lobby is already fighting against even the most basic protections for consumers.

If these lobbying efforts succeed, we’ll have set the stage for an even bigger financial disaster a few years down the road. The next crisis could look something like the savings-and-loan mess of the 1980s, in which deregulated banks gambled with, or in some cases stole, taxpayers’ money — except that it would involve the financial industry as a whole.


http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/17/opinion/17krugman.html

 Signature 

“Every war is a war against children.”
Howard Zinn

Profile
 
 
Posted: 02 September 2009 07:12 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 49 ]  
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1485
Joined  2007-12-10

You are AGAIN trying to desperately conflate two different arguments lindajean.  I don’t need your admittance to validate to me that Krugman has in fact abandaoned your claims.  HE has done that on his own.  There is a signficant difference between pulling the economy back from the precipice of disaster that it was teetering on from fall 2008 through spring 2009 and establishing major reform in the financial industry itself to prevent future disasters or at least help minimize them.  The argument that said that we have to nationalize the banks (which I fully endorsed btw) wasn’t the only way to help pull us back from the edge was simply wrong. 

Now, Congress has done some great things to help curb the derivatives market, exec pay caps, and other meaningful legislations to help correct some of the major problems that lead to this near total collapse.  These are the types of things you asserted would never happen and yet ehre we are, watching them happen as the markets have stabilized, just as I told you they would. 

That said, it’s true that we aren’t done yet as we still need a complete and total reinstatement of Glass-Steagall with a 21st century facelift, among many, many other things.  THAT is the reform Krugman, yourself, and I ALL agree needs to happen.  But your claims from a couple months ago that the route the administration was taking to stabilize the markets etc was somehow worthless and insignificant is outright nonsense.

My prediction is a year from now, the markets will be better than ever, the stimulus spending will be in high gear and creating massive amounts of jobs, a renewed energy sector focused on clean energy will start jumping into the mix creating employment opportunities across the country, and we will start seeing more and more of the bailed out coporations paying us back our billions of dollars and then some (just as we have seen recently).  Now, I’ve no idea how far Congress will take financial reform down the roads we would like to see, but I am much more confident they can make that happen with a strong stock market compared to one on life support as you were arguing for before.  You can call me optimistic, but you said the same thing back earlier this year about the likelihood of the markets stabilizing by the end of the FY.  We will see.


Btw-pointing out that Congress is already working through some of the major financial reforms we all agree is necessary for the future of our economy is hardly me ‘making your point for you’.  It’s actually the exact opposite.  These are VERY serious and important and worthwhile items Congress is working with right now.  I can’t see how some of those things which you’d have hailed as a divine ordinance destined to save our land from sorrow and despair 6 months ago are now somehow worhtless and only prove to you that Congress isn’t working on reform legislation.  You are using conservative ‘logic’.  You’re supposed to be above that. 

Furthermore, Geithner and Summers are NOT the ppl in charge of what legal rights corporations have.  CONGRESS is in charge of that.  If reforms don’t go through, it isn’t because Summers and Geithner have magically talked Obama into vetoing legislation that includes such reforms.  It will be because Congressional democrats are increasingly bought and paid for by corporate lobbyists and/or are political cowards.  The impact those ppl have is a whole other animal that needs to be totally abolished imho.  But that might be best left for another thread.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 05 September 2009 01:13 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 50 ]  
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1639
Joined  2007-12-20

Tavish

You are AGAIN trying to desperately conflate two different arguments lindajean.  I don’t need your admittance to validate to me that Krugman has in fact abandaoned your claims.  HE has done that on his own.

He has done that “on his own” with no quotes directly from him—-just you making a statement that this is the reality.

There is a signficant difference between pulling the economy back from the precipice of disaster that it was teetering on from fall 2008 through spring 2009 and establishing major reform in the financial industry itself to prevent future disasters or at least help minimize them.  The argument that said that we have to nationalize the banks (which I fully endorsed btw) wasn’t the only way to help pull us back from the edge was simply wrong.

Nationalizing the banks is not the only way to pull us back from a precipice.  It is the only way to pull us back and to keep the fat cats from finagling which is what they continue to do.

Now, Congress has done some great things to help curb the derivatives market, exec pay caps, and other meaningful legislations to help correct some of the major problems that lead to this near total collapse.  These are the types of things you asserted would never happen and yet ehre we are, watching them happen as the markets have stabilized, just as I told you they would.

Great things! Please do tell what those great things are and how they are “reforming” wall street.

That said, it’s true that we aren’t done yet as we still need a complete and total reinstatement of Glass-Steagall with a 21st century facelift, among many, many other things.  THAT is the reform Krugman, yourself, and I ALL agree needs to happen.  But your claims from a couple months ago that the route the administration was taking to stabilize the markets etc was somehow worthless and insignificant is outright nonsense.

The claim was those “routes” were doing nothing to reform a corrupt and indolent system.

Now, I’ve no idea how far Congress will take financial reform down the roads we would like to see, but I am much more confident they can make that happen with a strong stock market compared to one on life support as you were arguing for before.


They have the ability to do what ever they want.  That is not the point.  The point is they have done little to nothing yet and there is absolutely no indication they will bring true reform .  They can’t even reform the health care system as they struggle now in complacency and “compromise.”  How in god’s name will they reform wall street ?

You can call me optimistic, but you said the same thing back earlier this year about the likelihood of the markets stabilizing by the end of the FY.  We will see.

Again, the markets stablizing is no indication that there will be reform.  They are two separate actions.

Btw-pointing out that Congress is already working through some of the major financial reforms we all agree is necessary for the future of our economy is hardly me ‘making your point for you’.  It’s actually the exact opposite.  These are VERY serious and important and worthwhile items Congress is working with right now.  I can’t see how some of those things which you’d have hailed as a divine ordinance destined to save our land from sorrow and despair 6 months ago are now somehow worhtless and only prove to you that Congress isn’t working on reform legislation.  You are using conservative ‘logic’.  You’re supposed to be above that.

Then prove it by giving me examples of actual and real reform.  Calling me a “Conservative” is not the right answer!

Furthermore, Geithner and Summers are NOT the ppl in charge of what legal rights corporations have.  CONGRESS is in charge of that.  If reforms don’t go through, it isn’t because Summers and Geithner have magically talked Obama into vetoing legislation that includes such reforms.  It will be because Congressional democrats are increasingly bought and paid for by corporate lobbyists and/or are political cowards.  The impact those ppl have is a whole other animal that needs to be totally abolished imho.  But that might be best left for another thread.

Of course Congress is in bed with Wall Street.  That is the point of NOT letting Geithner and Summers even in the back door of the Obama Administration.  BHO claimed he was going to change how Washington does business.  Letting those 2 cats in is not even close to change. His first mistake was taking them in, his second mistake is keeping them. There will be no reform while they are around.

 Signature 

“Every war is a war against children.”
Howard Zinn

Profile
 
 
Posted: 05 September 2009 01:25 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 51 ]  
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1639
Joined  2007-12-20

On May 20, 2009 Tavish posted:

You don’t need to wait for my answer, you can have it now.  They need to get the ball rolling with some momentum before September.  If they aren’t making some reasonable progress by then vis a vis shaping and implementing new progressive policies, then they are making a mistake in my honest opinion (assuming the markets don’t collapse again, which I think is a pretty safe bet over the next couple months).  Can the bullshit already.  My answer is there in writing.  And if they don’t make progress by then, then that’ll disappoint me.  End of discussion.

(my emphasis)

So there you have it Tavish.  In your own words.  They have not made any reasonable progressive policies towards wall street reform and here it is the beginning of Sept.
They have hung you out to dry——you are entitled to be disappointed.

 Signature 

“Every war is a war against children.”
Howard Zinn

Profile
 
 
Posted: 12 September 2009 01:18 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 52 ]  
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1639
Joined  2007-12-20

This is why the bank bail out was a scam and this is why Geithner and Summers need to get out of the way so that real reform can take place

.

Based on the reluctance of many banks to take the money in the first place, and the swiftness with which other banks have repaid tarp funds, the main conclusion to be drawn is that relatively few were actually endangered. Rather than targeting the weak for relief—or allowing them to fail, as the government allowed millions of ordinary Americans to fail—Paulson and Treasury pumped hundreds of billions of dollars into the financial system without prior design and without prospective accountability. What was this all about? A case of panic by Treasury and the Federal Reserve? A financial over-reaction of cosmic proportions? A smoke screen to take care of a small number of Wall Street institutions that received 100 cents on the dollar for some of the worst investments they ever made?

More than five months after the bulk of the bailout money had been distributed into bank coffers, Elizabeth Warren plaintively raised the central and as yet unanswered question: “What is the strategy that Treasury is pursuing?” And she basically threw up her hands. As far as she could see, Warren went on, Treasury’s strategy was essentially “Take the money and do what you want with it.”

http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2009/10/bailout200910?printable=true

[ Edited: 12 September 2009 01:20 PM by zelzo]
 Signature 

“Every war is a war against children.”
Howard Zinn

Profile
 
 
Posted: 20 December 2009 02:52 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 53 ]  
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1639
Joined  2007-12-20

Any argument that G and S are an asset to Obama has long been debunked as the public has waited months for any serious financial reform. Much like health care reform, that Obama promised in former days, it is obvious he has no real intention of producing anything close to reform.  The Obama administration is quickly deflating like a balloon that is losing its air as he spends more and more time in bed with corporations.

“That probably won’t happen anytime soon. But at a minimum, Obama should start on the road back to sanity by making a long-overdue move: firing Geithner. Not only are the mop-headed weenie of a Treasury secretary’s fingerprints on virtually all the gross giveaways in the new reform legislation, he’s a living symbol of the Rubinite gangrene crawling up the leg of this administration. Putting Geithner against the wall and replacing him with an actual human being not recently employed by a Wall Street megabank would do a lot to prove that Obama was listening this past Election Day. And while there are some who think Geithner is about to go — “he almost has to,” says one Democratic strategist — at the moment, the president is still letting Wall Street do his talking.”

 

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/31234647/obamas_big_sellout/6

 Signature 

“Every war is a war against children.”
Howard Zinn

Profile
 
 
Posted: 08 January 2010 05:43 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 54 ]  
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1639
Joined  2007-12-20

Yep, he really needs to go.
I wonder when BHO knew about this:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/01/07/geithners-new-york-fed-to_n_414449.html

An arm of the Federal Reserve, then led by now-Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner, told bailed-out insurance giant AIG to withhold key details from the public about overpayments that put billions of extra tax dollars in the coffers of major Wall Street firms, most notably Goldman Sachs.

 Signature 

“Every war is a war against children.”
Howard Zinn

Profile
 
 
   
4 of 4
4
 
RSS 2.0     Atom Feed