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Posted: 02 May 2009 07:35 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]  
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Jesus sounds very ‘human’ to me.

If he is divine it does not play well for his godly father.

Ghandi was a better human being.

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Posted: 03 May 2009 07:26 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]  
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unknown zone - 01 May 2009 10:43 PM

According to Gospel stories? Why not quote from Santa experiences according to 3-year-old children, Josh? Or any other of the many thousands of stories that describe ideal behavior with some slight inkling of verisimilitude?

Whether the Gospels are historical accounts or fairy tales is irrelevant here. My positive evaluation of Jesus was in an attempt to make the point that Christianity is not the problem here; the problem is that not enough Christians seem to be truly seeking to emulate Jesus (who, according to the stories, is a great guy, and nothing like them).

If it’ll make you feel any better, I’ll also point out that according to Brianna, my 4-year-old niece, Santa Claus supposedly taught us to be good for goodness sake. Santa was a very loving, kind, generous, non-judgmental guy who set a great example for all children. Also, he never owned any slaves, he never uttered a single word against homosexuality or gay marriage…in fact, he was silent on a lot of things that Christian children’s parents today are so “up in arms” about (abortion, stem cells, evolution, etc.). So he really doesn’t sound like a bad guy to me. In fact, I would like to see a lot more children grow up to become more like Santa, and less like their nutty parents.

Do you really think that Gospel tales record every Goddamn word that came forth from the Western world’s (most likely fictitious) hero, Jesus Christ?

Do you really think that the history books or “The Origin of Species” record every Goddamn word that came forth from Mr. Darwin? Of course not. But I’ll venture a guess that you think highly of him, just as I do (correct me if I’m wrong about your opinion of Darwin). I’ll also speculate that if my post had claimed that Charles Darwin (or whoever your particular “hero” might be) was a great guy, you would not even be asking me the above question. (again, if I’m wrong about you, let me know).

Jesus H. Christ, you’re still either a buffoon pretending to understand, or you’re just a babbling idiot. I suspect you have some potential, Josh. But your intellect remains for now no more than potential.

Unknown H. Zone! Did your diagnosis of my intellect arrive from every homunculus-damn word that ever came forth from my mouth? The words from my hundreds of posts on this forum are but a fraction of everything that I have said in my 31 years on this earth. Are you sure that I haven’t said some other things in the past that would indicate that I am NOT a buffoon or a babbling idiot? According to your logic, unless you have been following me around for my entire life, listening to EVERY word I’ve ever said (or are at least in possession of a complete biography of Josh’s life).....then your sardonic evaluation of my intellect is worth about as much as I paid for it.

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Posted: 03 May 2009 07:40 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]  
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Beam - 02 May 2009 09:15 AM

According to the propaganda accounts called the Gospels, Jesus was a short tempered bigot who initially refused to heal the child of a Syro-Phoenician woman because she was not one of the children of Israel. Not only does Jesus refuse to help her, he calls the mother and her daughter, dogs.

First of all, Scotty, it’s not too late to jump on the Redskins bandwagon before they win the next Super Bowl. Hail to the Redskins. With that out of the way, let’s discuss your post. The above quote seems to indicate that you did not read past Mark 7:27. Read the next three verses after that, and you’ll see that this does not appear to be bigotry on the part of Jesus, but rather a test of the faith and attitude of the woman. She passed the test, and he healed her child. Don’t ya just love a story with a happy ending?

He thought that mental illness was demon possession.

You’re right. I fully agree that we have no empirical evidence to suggest that what Jesus perceived as “demon possession” was anything more than mental illness. With this in mind, let’s examine your next point:

He killed pigs without compensating the owner.

Well, according to the story, Jesus did not kill these pigs. The demons killed the pigs. However, since there is no reason to believe in demons, let’s re-examine the story. Since there are no demons, what do we have here? We have a guy speaking to a mentally ill guy…..and then suddenly, in the distance, about 2,000 pigs start stampeding down the mountain into the sea, and drown in the sea. If we don’t believe in demon possession, then we cannot hold Jesus responsible for a bunch a pigs committing suicide. If we DO believe in demon possession, then it was the demons who killed the pigs, not Jesus. No matter how we look at it, Jesus did not kill any pigs that day.

He killed a fig tree because it did not have fruit out of season.

Jesus did not chop the fig tree down, he did not set fire to it…..according to the story, he did not physically DO anything to this tree. He simply cursed it. He spoke to the tree, and it dried up and died on its own. To hold Jesus responsible for the death of this fig tree, IMO, requires a belief that Jesus had magical powers. Beam, I was under the impression that you didn’t believe in magic (except during football season).

He had a hissy fit at the temple and vandalized the property of legitimate business people.

Well, according to the Gospels, Jesus claimed to be the son of God. Consistent with this claim, he obviously saw these moneychangers as “defiling his father’s house”. And since he referred to them as “thieves” (saying that they had turned his father’s house into a den of thieves), apparently Jesus did not share your opinion of the legitimacy of these business people. Now, whether or not Jesus was justified in making the mess that he made with their stuff, would be an interesting debate for you to engage in with an expert apologist.

Gentle Jesus, meek and mild-my ass.

You have formed your opinion of Jesus from the Gospel stories, have you not? So have I. However, I find it rather interesting that Unknown Zone has not yet showed up to write you off as a buffoon or a babbling idiot. After all, the Gospel tales couldn’t have recorded every single thing that Jesus ever did, or every single word that he ever said. So how can you form such a poorly informed opinion of him, and not reap the ridicule of Mr. Zone? Hmmmm…..perhaps it’s because he has the same poorly informed opinion as you, and only criticizes MY intellect because my opinion disagrees with his? Just a guess on my part…..

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Posted: 03 May 2009 09:29 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]  
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Josh - 03 May 2009 11:40 PM

You have formed your opinion of Jesus from the Gospel stories, have you not? So have I.

I find that a person’s opinion of Jesus is worth about as much as his opinion of Gandalf. Those who profess to be continuing ardent admirers of either character tend to be babbling torrents of superficial sentimentality. The world that Gandalf inhabits gets a slight nod in terms of overall beneficence, largely because Gandalf smokes a pipe, and Jesus doesn’t, though both are studious types, and are typically depicted as wearing beards. Gandalf rides a horse named Shadowfax, and Jesus rides an ass. I think Josh likes to fantasize about Jesus riding his ass. Josh probably has a bumper sticker on his truck that says “Real Men Love Jesus”.

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Posted: 04 May 2009 06:43 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]  
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Josh - 03 May 2009 11:26 PM

Unknown H. Zone! Did your diagnosis of my intellect arrive from every homunculus-damn word that ever came forth from my mouth? The words from my hundreds of posts on this forum are but a fraction of everything that I have said in my 31 years on this earth. Are you sure that I haven’t said some other things in the past that would indicate that I am NOT a buffoon or a babbling idiot? According to your logic, unless you have been following me around for my entire life, listening to EVERY word I’ve ever said (or are at least in possession of a complete biography of Josh’s life).....then your sardonic evaluation of my intellect is worth about as much as I paid for it.

At least you seem to have an inquiring mind, Josh, so I’ll explain something about my comments to you the other day.

The world is filled with people who make claims about things. Almost every one of us (yes, I live in the world, too) is full of shit because, rather than basing our claims on information-gathering principles that tend to operate with some reliability, we ignore such principles for the most part, and just make our claims due to how happy we feel after saying or writing them. For most of humanity’s history, frankness about claims people make has been rare, but now I’m entering into the same territory I accused you of entering—I’m guessing.

Before the invention of writing, which was quickly followed by the invention of the online discussion forum, people needed to physically meet with each other in order to bullshit one another. On one narrow level, this caused a problem, because when people meet eye-to-eye, they tend to react to each others’ bullshit with polite silence, or they politely change the subject, or, perhaps even more commonly, they politely encourage each other to come up with even more bullshit. One solution to this problem (at least I see it as a problem) is to utilize the online forum when discussing topics that surpass others in importance. I haven’t discussed religion with my brother-in-law, for example, since the previous century, mainly because I don’t want to speak with him about it politely. I’d rather attempt to advance my views online, where politeness is not obligatory, or even commonplace. Impolite conversations about the topic of religion, in my opinion, have the potential to accomplish much more than polite ones. Since I’ve never met you face to face, Josh, nothing within my nervous system instructed me the other day to pretend to you that you made any sense whatsoever.

If I ever meet you eye-to-eye, I will no doubt apologize profusely, since you make perfect sense in the above paragraph.

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Posted: 04 May 2009 07:49 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]  
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My point, Josh, was this. Even in the unlikely event that the Gospels were written about a real man; that man was not perfect. If you had a child, would you test her faith by calling her a dog? Why would you give a crap whether or not she had faith? Would you vandalize property without first discussing your concerns with the owners? These are exactly the kinds of behaviors that many Christians feel justified in emulating today.

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Real honesty is accepting the theories that best explain the actual data even if those explanations contradict our cherished beliefs.-Scotty

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Posted: 04 May 2009 07:57 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]  
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Jeebus was pissed off at the tax collectors in the temple so he knocked over the tables.

I wonder if Christian Conservatives today emulate that behavior by being anti-tax?

Could you imagine? Please, someone say it isn’t so.

raspberry

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‘If ignorance of nature gave birth to gods, knowledge of nature destroys them’

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Posted: 04 May 2009 11:54 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]  
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McCreason - 04 May 2009 11:57 AM

Jeebus was pissed off at the tax collectors in the temple so he knocked over the tables.

(Andrew):  The first tea-bagger!

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Posted: 04 May 2009 01:18 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]  
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I thought Moses tea-bagged Ramses way earlier!

Isn’t that in Exodus somewhere?

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Posted: 09 May 2009 11:45 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]  
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Josh - 03 May 2009 11:26 PM

My positive evaluation of Jesus was in an attempt to make the point that Christianity is not the problem here; the problem is that not enough Christians seem to be truly seeking to emulate Jesus (who, according to the stories, is a great guy, and nothing like them).

According to popular mythology, Jesus condemned most of the people who will ever live to eternal torment.

Yeah. Great guy.

If it’ll make you feel any better, I’ll also point out that according to Brianna, my 4-year-old niece, Santa Claus supposedly taught us to be good for goodness sake.

Poor Brianna. Barely out of diapers and already brainwashed.

Santa was a very loving, kind, generous, non-judgmental guy…

He doesn’t go to jews’ houses because he can’t find them on the map.

... who set a great example for all children.

“If your parents don’t have any money, you get dick, no matter how good you’ve been, you sniveling little shit.”

Great example.

Also, he never owned any slaves…

But advocated slavery.

... he never uttered a single word against homosexuality or gay marriage…in fact, he was silent on a lot of things that Christian children’s parents today are so “up in arms” about (abortion, stem cells, evolution, etc.).

In fact, he wasn’t silent about it.

So he really doesn’t sound like a bad guy to me.

That makes you a babbling idiot.

In fact, I would like to see a lot more children grow up to become more like Santa, and less like their nutty parents.

Nutty parents… like parents who teach their children that Santa is real.

The words from my hundreds of posts on this forum are but a fraction of everything that I have said in my 31 years on this earth. Are you sure that I haven’t said some other things in the past that would indicate that I am NOT a buffoon or a babbling idiot?

The minute you start promoting superstition as fact, you become a babbling idiot, in spite of any intelligence you may exhibit on other topics.

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Posted: 12 May 2009 09:25 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]  
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Jack’s Smirking Revenge - 09 May 2009 03:45 PM

The words from my hundreds of posts on this forum are but a fraction of everything that I have said in my 31 years on this earth. Are you sure that I haven’t said some other things in the past that would indicate that I am NOT a buffoon or a babbling idiot?

The minute you start promoting superstition as fact, you become a babbling idiot, in spite of any intelligence you may exhibit on other topics.

And now it’s time for Josh’s smirking revenge on Jack. Sorry to rain on your condescending parade, Jack…..but I never once promoted superstition as fact. I pointed out that the Santa Claus character made a good role model for kids to emulate. This says nothing about whether he literally exists or not. For the record (to clear up this misunderstanding), I do NOT believe that Santa is alive today, flying around in a sleigh pulled by Rudolph and the gang, leaving presents for all the good Gentile children of the world on Christmas. I do NOT promote this story as factual, and my sister-in-law is responsible for my niece’s “brainwashing”, not me. There you go…..happy now?

The fact that I have to explain this to you…..and the fact that, based on your accusation (completely unsupported by any proof) that I was “promoting superstition as fact”, you would then feel justified in calling me a babbling idiot…..I believe that makes you the very thing that you called me. Smell that? I LOVE the pleasing aroma of delicious hypocrisy in the morning!

[ Edited: 12 May 2009 09:28 AM by Josh]
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Posted: 12 May 2009 10:01 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]  
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According to popular mythology, Jesus condemned most of the people who will ever live to eternal torment.

Yeah. Great guy.

Yeah Jack, that Jesus fellow was a real douche rocket! I mean, a great guy would be someone who is willing to lay down his life (let’s say by crucifixion or something) to SAVE people from this “eternal torment”. But Jesus, according to the story, did nothing of the sort…..right? Now, I never claimed that Jesus was the son of God, who literally died for our sins and rose again. I only opined that he was a great guy. Obviously you don’t think as highly of JC as I do, as indicated by the different angle from which you view this whole “eternal torment” thing. We both read the story, right? I saw a guy who was willing to die to save people from eternal torment. YOU saw a guy who laughs maliciously as he fantasizes about people suffering eternal torment. Your negative opinion of Jesus does not seem to take into account that part of the story about the cross. You know, it IS possible to concede that he was a great guy, WITHOUT having to believe that he was divine (just a thought).

BTW, you seem to know a lot about Santa Claus that I don’t. He skips Jews’ houses because he can’t find them on the map? Really? For a guy who doesn’t believe in Santa, you seem to be very familiar (almost too familiar) with what he can and cannot find on a map.

And I don’t know what the original Saint Nick’s opinions were about slavery and homosexuality. However, I was speaking of the guy who drops through chimneys into millions (maybe even billions) of Gentile homes in one night, to leave gifts and wash their cookies down with their milk, before returning to the North Pole to take a 364-day vacation. Santa Claus, according to this story, did not have any opinions about slaves and gays that I personally know of.

[ Edited: 12 May 2009 10:29 AM by Josh]
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Posted: 12 May 2009 10:26 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]  
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Josh - 12 May 2009 02:01 PM

I mean, a great guy would be someone who is willing to lay down his life (let’s say by crucifixion or something) to SAVE people from this “eternal torment”. But Jesus, according to the story, did nothing of the sort…..right?


Did you see The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe movie (‘05)? I hadn’t realized just how anemic and empty was the idea of a god “sacrificing its life” for a few days until I saw it illustrated so clearly in that story (when I read it I was on the kool-aid, and much younger).

According to the mythology, though, Jesus is God in some magical way. So he’s an omnipotent being responsible for creating a universe in which there’s immense suffering, including Hell. He’s also responsible for creating the universe such that it condemns those of his creations, who are by necessity precisely as this omnipotent creator created us, to spend eternity in Hell for “failing” to believe correctly, based upon faith, when there’s no ethical or even reasonable basis for it.

Yeah, I’d say all that outweighs the trying death on for a moment to throw it in your face so you actually feel guilty tor all that I’ve done kind of “sacrifice” that’s supposed to save us from it.

Byron

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Posted: 12 May 2009 10:58 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]  
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SkepticX - 12 May 2009 02:26 PM

Did you see The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe movie (‘05)? I hadn’t realized just how anemic and empty was the idea of a god “sacrificing its life” for a few days until I saw it illustrated so clearly in that story (when I read it I was on the kool-aid, and much younger).

According to the mythology, though, Jesus is God in some magical way. So he’s an omnipotent being responsible for creating a universe in which there’s immense suffering, including Hell. He’s also responsible for creating the universe such that it condemns those of his creations, who are by necessity precisely as this omnipotent creator created us, to spend eternity in Hell for “failing” to believe correctly, based upon faith, when there’s no ethical or even reasonable basis for it.

Yeah, I’d say all that outweighs the trying death on for a moment to throw it in your face so you actually feel guilty tor all that I’ve done kind of “sacrifice” that’s supposed to save us from it.

Byron

To throw it in our faces? So we’ll “feel guilty”? Simmer down now, my friend. Remember, it’s just a story, right? Just like the Narnia books, right?

If I had claimed that Aslan was a great lion (actually, he WAS known as the “Great Lion”), would you have ranted about him “throwing his death in the faces of all of the Narnians”, so that Peter and his younger siblings would “feel guilty for all that he did”?

You don’t believe the Bible story…..so take a deep breath, put the Bible back on the shelf between The Chronicles of Narnia and “The Cat in the Hat”.....and take a walk to cool off.

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Posted: 12 May 2009 11:12 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]  
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Josh - 12 May 2009 02:58 PM

To throw it in our faces? So we’ll “feel guilty”? Simmer down now, my friend. Remember, it’s just a story, right? Just like the Narnia books, right?

If I had claimed that Aslan was a great lion (actually, he WAS known as the “Great Lion”), would you have ranted about him “throwing his death in the faces of all of the Narnians”, so that Peter and his younger siblings would “feel guilty for all that he did”?

You don’t believe the Bible story…..so take a deep breath, put the Bible back on the shelf between The Chronicles of Narnia and “The Cat in the Hat”.....and take a walk to cool off.


It’s simply literary criticism. We’re talking about literary characters, after all, and Aslan is quite obviously a simile of Jesus. I’m guessing you already knew that.

Sadly though, much of Humanity has decided to actually buy into the dark and deeply twisted Jesus thing and it does create a whole lot of actual suffering and nastiness.

In any case you’re apparently projecting the histrionics. You’re not getting that from me. I just dropped some analysis into the mix. It does seem that you may be getting worked up, however.

Byron

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