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we need to wake everyone else up from this nightmare!
Posted: 10 February 2006 06:47 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]  
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mindfuli, come out, come out, wherever you are….

Poor guy, he’s probably going nuts in the library….(i.e., A Brilliant Mind). All this poor chap has to do is surrender. Surrender to the King of Kings, Prince of Peace, Alpha/Omega, Lord of Lords, etc., and so forth.

No reason to fight it. Just need to have that childlike faith. Don’t worry, God will melt the coldness of the heart. The hurts and pains of the past. They will melt away, when you make Jesus your guru.

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Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light. Matt 11:28-29

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Posted: 10 February 2006 08:28 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]  
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ok, champion.  some points to consider.

point 1.  i am not a scholar of the bible.  i do not want to be.  i think it’s perfectly reasonable for me to point out a biblical quote that has god instructing the believer to kill the non believer, and consequently to make assumptions based on this.  you can say, “it was warranted because blah blah blah, etc”, or you can say “it is god’s law"etc.  this is not something i want to be associated with, period.  i am actually concerned that you and a billion plus people are somewhat under the spell of such propaganda!

point 2.  you talk about christian logic.  something like, “god said it shall be so, and so shall it be!  god said that it was, and it was!.. so it shall be so what god said!”    ...  I’m not sure if you realize how silly and ignorant this sort of thing sounds to most people (outside of your church buddies).  i don’t want to hear your ‘christian logic’!  it makes no sense, no matter how passionately you spout it!  if i want to hear how hezakiah begat solomon begat jebediah i would spend two worthless hours in church on sunday with the other sleeping sheep of your herd.

point 3.  i know that your religious affiliation is big into converting people.. i guess because there is strength in numbers, even if there is little substance!  however, you will NEVER CONVERT ME!  i know this is one of your goals, but it will not work.  scratch me off your list.  please knock on another door!  ride your bike with your bible.. i guess you don’t need a helmet since god is protecting you..  if you fall off your bike, i’m sure god intended it..  i’m off topic, sorry.

i could list many more points, but it’s not worth my time!  i’m quite sure you will list your points in return… i have to tell you though, we are so completely on different pages of different books, so to speak.  so, no bible babble.  no god said you shall kneel downeth before me nonsense!  don’t quote some archaic passage from the bible and expect me to care!
LOL
talk to ya soon!

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Posted: 11 February 2006 02:37 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]  
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Hi mindfuli, thanks for responding. I thought I had scared you away and that was not my intention. Just good dialog and an occasional crossing of swords on the docket. Of course, your future conversion would be greeted warmly. But certainly not trying to CONVINCE you to do it. Just trying to point out that you (and the rest of us) have broken God’s law, repeatedly. And that the consequences for doing so is eternal death/separation from God forever and ever and ever and ever-ever. It is your choice to face eternity rejecting this truth, or accepting the free gift of salvation.

Points are well taken. Actually though, Point 1…come on. That is like me selecting a part of the story, such as the time your scientific community used a piece of jaw bone to create a billion year old man. Then the bone turned out to be from a pig. I could pinpoint this part of the story of evolution as proof that you guys are incompetent. But taken in context to the evolutionary theory, its just part of the story. Just like saying that particular scripture is telling Christians that they should kill today.

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Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light. Matt 11:28-29

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Posted: 14 March 2006 07:58 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]  
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The Champion:

But SitDogmaSit, once your wonderful life is over, its over….for good (according to you). I find that a sad way to life

.

SitDogmaSit:

But dude, that’s the way it is for you and me and all living things, past, present and future. 2 + 2 = 4. Crying about it not equalling 5 doesn’t make it so. Feeling better if you think 2 + 2 = 5 doesn’t make it so. And if you read Sam Harris’ book, it may make you utterly blissful and purposeful to think that there is a diamond the size of a refrigerator buried in your back yard, but that still does not make it so, especially if the physical evidence is sorely lacking

SitDogmaSit, Great point, I agree. 2=2 does equal 4. Now, Who filled you in to the answer of the question that people have been debating on for millenia? Who or What being told you that there is absolutely no life after death. Are you just using logic or are you guessing?

There is no human logic to why we are here or why the universe exists. We can come up with theories and test those theories but most of us will never know. But I think even most scientists, if you would ask them for an definitive answer to the question of eternity would not give an answer.

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Posted: 14 March 2006 11:38 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]  
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[quote author=“TheChampion”]sigh….(folks, should I even bother?.....)

If I said ‘no’ would it make any difference? 8)

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Posted: 15 March 2006 06:10 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]  
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[quote author=“Humble Servant”]The Champion:

But SitDogmaSit, once your wonderful life is over, its over….for good (according to you). I find that a sad way to life

.

SitDogmaSit:

But dude, that’s the way it is for you and me and all living things, past, present and future. 2 + 2 = 4. Crying about it not equalling 5 doesn’t make it so. Feeling better if you think 2 + 2 = 5 doesn’t make it so. And if you read Sam Harris’ book, it may make you utterly blissful and purposeful to think that there is a diamond the size of a refrigerator buried in your back yard, but that still does not make it so, especially if the physical evidence is sorely lacking

SitDogmaSit, Great point, I agree. 2=2 does equal 4. Now, Who filled you in to the answer of the question that people have been debating on for millenia? Who or What being told you that there is absolutely no life after death. Are you just using logic or are you guessing?

There is no human logic to why we are here or why the universe exists. We can come up with theories and test those theories but most of us will never know. But I think even most scientists, if you would ask them for an definitive answer to the question of eternity would not give an answer.

Who filled me in that there is absolutely no life after death?!?  Are you kidding?  Am I 100% certain?  Yea - I am.  Am I right?  Based on the lack of independent reproducible evidence that life after death exists, I would say the probability that I am right is 99%+, which is effectively 100%.  Without extraordinary evidence for the extraordinary claim of life after death, I would say that claim is false.  Show us all conclusive evidence and then we can talk.

Use Occam’s Razor.  Otherwise you will find yourself being logically suseptible to any claims for which there is no evidence, whether the claim originates from a 2000-year-old book of myths or someone’s twisted imagination.

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Posted: 15 March 2006 04:13 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]  
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SitDogmaSit:

Who filled me in that there is absolutely no life after death?!? Are you kidding? Am I 100% certain? Yea - I am. Am I right? Based on the lack of independent reproducible evidence that life after death exists, I would say the probability that I am right is 99%+, which is effectively 100%. Without extraordinary evidence for the extraordinary claim of life after death, I would say that claim is false. Show us all conclusive evidence and then we can talk.

Use Occam’s Razor. Otherwise you will find yourself being logically suseptible to any claims for which there is no evidence, whether the claim originates from a 2000-year-old book of myths or someone’s twisted imagination

Wow, your pretty sure. We both have the same hard evidence and we are 180 degrees apart. For some reason this comes to mind:

Research lab somewhere, years ago…..

Scientist #1: Could ther possibly be anything smaller than an atom?
Scientist #2: A sub-atomic particle? hmmm…..
Scientist SitDogmaSit: Smaller than an atom? Are you nuts? We can barely see atoms with the most advanced electron microscopes. Remember Occam’s Razor…....

Scientist#1: Ok What else we got?
Scientist#2: Could light be a wave and a particle?
Scientist SitDogmaSit: A particle? Coming out of my flashlight? Remember occam’s Razor guys…....

Your feeling about it, even a strong feeling does not changee whether it is true or not. Right now there are facts in this universe that we haven’t even come up with a question for. God already knows those facts.

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Posted: 16 March 2006 02:20 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]  
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[quote author=“Humble Servant”]SitDogmaSit:

Who filled me in that there is absolutely no life after death?!? Are you kidding? Am I 100% certain? Yea - I am. Am I right? Based on the lack of independent reproducible evidence that life after death exists, I would say the probability that I am right is 99%+, which is effectively 100%. Without extraordinary evidence for the extraordinary claim of life after death, I would say that claim is false. Show us all conclusive evidence and then we can talk.

Use Occam’s Razor. Otherwise you will find yourself being logically suseptible to any claims for which there is no evidence, whether the claim originates from a 2000-year-old book of myths or someone’s twisted imagination

Wow, your pretty sure. We both have the same hard evidence and we are 180 degrees apart. For some reason this comes to mind:

Research lab somewhere, years ago…..

Scientist #1: Could ther possibly be anything smaller than an atom?
Scientist #2: A sub-atomic particle? hmmm…..
Scientist SitDogmaSit: Smaller than an atom? Are you nuts? We can barely see atoms with the most advanced electron microscopes. Remember Occam’s Razor…....

Scientist#1: Ok What else we got?
Scientist#2: Could light be a wave and a particle?
Scientist SitDogmaSit: A particle? Coming out of my flashlight? Remember occam’s Razor guys…....

Your feeling about it, even a strong feeling does not changee whether it is true or not. Right now there are facts in this universe that we haven’t even come up with a question for. God already knows those facts.

Very poor characterization.  It’s not a feeling - it’s all about the lack of evidence.  And my “feeling” - again, are you kidding?  Ok, I claim that thousands of invisible tiny pink elephants crawl up your bum every night while you sleep and spontaneously change into the poop you see later in the toilet.  They are completely undetectible but are no less real.  You can’t prove me wrong, ever.  Do you think there is any possibility that I am 100% right?  Yes - it is possible.  You have to ask yourself if it’s likely.  Again, you will find yourself logically suseptible to such gibberish.

Same goes for life after death, heaven, hell, and any deity.

You’re going in circles with your argument.  The fact is there were reproducible experiments that suggested that light was acting as a particle and not a wave.  What reproducible experiments have you heard of that might lead one to posit that there is life after death?  Any thing at all?  Even one link?  Remeber, I said “reproducible”.  Probably nothing I’m guessing.  Hence my certainty (at this point) about the nature of the universe in regards to life after death.

You claim certainty about something for which you have no evidence.  Therefore, I can disregard your claim on the same basis - no evidence.

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Posted: 16 March 2006 02:16 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]  
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When you say “tiny pink elephants” that gives a sense of size and mass. We can detect things now that are smaller than an atom and I think we would be able to find those elephants. God is not a gas or solid so no you would not be able to detect Him with a gas sniffer.

As I stated earlier, There may be things in the universe that we have no clue about. Because we don’t know that they are there does not mean they don’t exist. There existence and all the data that goes with them right now would be fact. But to us they would be undiscovered and questionable.

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Posted: 16 March 2006 02:37 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]  
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[quote author=“Humble Servant”]When you say “tiny pink elephants” that gives a sense of size and mass. We can detect things now that are smaller than an atom and I think we would be able to find those elephants. God is not a gas or solid so no you would not be able to detect Him with a gas sniffer.

As I stated earlier, There may be things in the universe that we have no clue about. Because we don’t know that they are there does not mean they don’t exist. There existence and all the data that goes with them right now would be fact. But to us they would be undiscovered and questionable.

No.  Just like the photon, I say the elephants have no mass.  They are by definition undetectable.  Dude, you can’t win the argument about the elephants for the same reason no one can convince you that life after death does not exist - they are logically identical.  But in your mind for some reason you draw a distinction.  And please tell us where you draw the line when it comes to accepting things as true when we haven’t even found any evidence yet?  Please, again, tell us about your evidence for life after death.  You hinted at that earlier so please do tell.  Or was I right?  You have no evidence?  Probably not.  You’re proving my point.

And again, sure, absolutely anything is possible.  And there will be new evidence to review every single day.  No doubt.  But the difference between you and me is that I am suseptible to the new evidence where you are not.  Your beliefs are simply based on the bible - mine are based on the evidence we have uncovered so far.  BIG difference.

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