2 of 2
2
Question for the Atheistic Faithful
Posted: 30 September 2009 02:49 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]  
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1891
Joined  2007-12-19
TheChampion - 26 September 2009 09:48 PM

Your thinking and rationale appears to be limited to that which can be verified by science. But science does change over time. So what is true today could be untrue tomorrow. So why be so stringent in your belief system.

That’s the point, Champ. We live in a changing universe. Knowledge changes (ie, grows, builds, develops) over time. Your belief is limited, stringent, static. From your perspective, we’d still have slavery founded in ignorance, hate, greed, oppression, exploitation. Same with the homosexual issue. Same with your politics. Conservative means static. The two are interrelated. You are limited in growth because you adhere to ancient belief systems devised by humans in the first place. You’re being forced to play catch-up without even realizing it. Your religion also is changing, but at a snails pace, whether you like it or not. And we’re changing it for you, like it or not. And our numbers are growing also, but not as rapidly as they could because of your adherence and unwillingness to change (ie, grow, build, develop). You ought to get off that rickety old bandwagon and hop on the bullet train. But alas, I know I’m beating my head against a brick wall. That’s the sad frustrating part.

I mean, what is the first thing you would do the moment your boat capsizes 80 miles out? You would cry out to God Almighty.

We have our own earth-based Trinity: Holy Shit!! Aw Fuck!! Thank Goodness!! We get better outcomes because it frees-up one hand from signing the cross to keep on the wheel.

 Signature 

“This is it. You are it.”


- Jos. Campbell

Profile
 
 
Posted: 01 October 2009 05:47 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]  
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  3255
Joined  2004-12-24
Skipshot - 30 September 2009 06:36 PM

C’mon Champ, you’re just rattling our cages.


Or attempting to, anyway, in that quaint, deer-in-the-headlights kind of way that’s so impressive to the most seriously hard core believers (i.e. the most deeply intellectually compromised).

Skipshot - 30 September 2009 06:36 PM

If you haven’t figured out the atheist mind after a couple thousand posts it means you don’t care to.


... or haven’t the intestinal fortitude.

 Signature 

“We say, ‘Love your brother…’ We don’t say it really, but… Well we don’t literally say it. We don’t really, literally mean it. No, we don’t believe it either, but… But that message should be clear.”—David St. Hubbins

Profile
 
 
Posted: 01 October 2009 06:40 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]  
Administrator
Avatar
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  496
Joined  2005-02-22

Wow. The last thing I want to see at this point is The Chump’s intestinal fortitude.

I thought he had passed on through ours long ago.

 Signature 

Delude responsibly.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 01 October 2009 12:11 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]  
Newbie
Avatar
Rank
Total Posts:  7
Joined  2008-09-02

Not sure if this is the right discussion or place for this, but it seems as good as any ...

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125440678661956317.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_MIDDLETopStories

This is an article about a historic find of humanoid fossils, dating back 4.4 million years, or about one million years before “Lucy.”  47 scientists from all over the world have been working on re-assembling this skeleton for 15 years (the original discovery was in Ethiopia in 1994).  The bombshell in the discovery is ...

“[T]he new finds show that what seems most ancient about nonhuman primates today—such as canine fangs, long limbs with hooked fingers meant for swinging through trees and hands designed for knuckle-walking—may actually be the product of more recent development, the researchers said. In that sense, the human hand today actually may be the more primitive appendage, they said.”

The problem with those of religious faith is that all true believers must, as a tenet of their faith, immediately reject this study.  How can we have an intelligent conversation about the meaning of this important discovery if the earth did not exist 4.4 million years ago and evolution is merely a “theory” rejected by creationism?  Indeed, the savvy few will bend the new reality around their religious dogma (i.e., “God made man in his image, and then some unfavored humans devolved into apes!!”) and/or use it to attack the theory of evolution (“See, we did not evolve from apes.”).

Profile
 
 
Posted: 06 October 2009 03:42 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]  
Member
Avatar
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  951
Joined  2007-06-23
Jefe - 30 September 2009 11:18 AM

In a personally life-threatening incident when I thought I’d bought the farm…

Been in a few of these myself, amazing how it focuses the mind on issues related purely to survival. In such situations, prayer would be a useless distraction as opposed to taking steps that maximize the possibility of survival.

Champ, seriously - if you found yourself stuck 150 feet up on a 200 foot rock wall during a free climb with shaking limbs. Would you really take time to pray or would you be focused purely upon trying to find that next hand/foothold or maybe evaluating secondary options like wondering if you pushed off hard enough you could land on the tree 75 feet below you and get away with a few broken bones?

At what point in this scenario is prayer not a waste of resources?

 Signature 

He who is not a misanthrope at forty can never have loved mankind  -Chamfort

Profile
 
 
Posted: 07 October 2009 05:37 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]  
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1183
Joined  2007-08-07
mpbrockman - 06 October 2009 07:42 PM

Champ, seriously

Oxymoron.

 Signature 

Faith-free since 1985

Profile
 
 
Posted: 08 October 2009 07:27 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]  
Member
Avatar
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  777
Joined  2007-09-16

1. Secure the radio.
2.  Secure the life raft and life preservers.
3.  Begin assessing the feasibility of righting the boat.
4.  Thank God

*I’ve found that in life threatening or even adrenaline pumping situations, that requires instant decision making and reactionary response, I do not pray to God.  It is almost always after the fact that I pray and thank God for his mercies. 

Do you guys really think Champion is a Christian?...cause I’m banking on him just being a troll here to waste your time…

 Signature 

“If you desire to be good, begin by believing that you are wicked.” -Epictetus

Profile
 
 
Posted: 09 October 2009 12:44 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]  
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1585
Joined  2006-10-20
clayforHim648 - 08 October 2009 11:27 PM

Do you guys really think Champion is a Christian?...cause I’m banking on him just being a troll here to waste your time…

He claims to be on your team - you talk to him.

 Signature 

“All extremists should be killed!” - neighbor’s bumper sticker

Profile
 
 
Posted: 09 October 2009 07:02 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]  
Member
Avatar
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  951
Joined  2007-06-23
Keep The Reason - 07 October 2009 09:37 PM
mpbrockman - 06 October 2009 07:42 PM

Champ, seriously

Oxymoron.

Ha! Like Moral Majority, Christian Science or President Bush. Lovely.

 Signature 

He who is not a misanthrope at forty can never have loved mankind  -Chamfort

Profile
 
 
Posted: 29 October 2009 04:32 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]  
Member
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  277
Joined  2008-02-10

Hi Champion.

I don’t care what people believe or don’t believe.  However, the core of religion is theocracy, and theocracy is diametrically opposed to democracy. 

  You see, I believe in freedom, and the right of all individuals to live self-directed lives.  I also believe that religions are quite simply cults which have garnered mainstream acceptance from society.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 29 October 2009 04:40 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]  
Member
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  277
Joined  2008-02-10
TheChampion - 26 September 2009 09:48 PM

Hey guys and gals, question for you. What gives? Why so much hostility toward having “faith” in something, or faith in God, lets say?

Your thinking and rationale appears to be limited to that which can be verified by science. But science does change over time. So what is true today could be untrue tomorrow. So why be so stringent in your belief system. I mean, what is the first thing you would do the moment your boat capsizes 80 miles out? You would cry out to God Almighty. What is the first thing you would do the moment you hear the words, ‘it might be liver cancer, we have to verify, but if it is, two months, maybe four with chemo.’ Well you would cry out to God. When your life is on the life, I’m willing to bet, and I’m not a betting man, that each and every one of you in your own way would have a conversation with the dude you been fighting against all these years.

So I am trying to wrap my mind on how you process your thinking. Must all belief be verified by science? Is faith not allowed? What is your mental process to life?

Sorry, guess you guys can be my “lab rats” so I can understand the athiestic mind, I got a hunch that it purely stems from anger with God, sometimes I see things that make me ask - why? Why God, but I still take him at his Word, the bible, and I also put it down to his soverngty, and his Word says its a fallen world populated by sinful beings that need to be save and he is not willing that any should perish.

Thanks guys, look forward to your responses.

A muslim pilot is in jail in Itlay, because when his plane got into trouble he started praying to Allah, instead of trying to fix the problem. The plane crashed but he survived and was sent to prison for praying instead of save his passengers by devoting his time to fixing the problem.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 17 November 2009 02:34 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]  
Member
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  126
Joined  2008-05-07

Sam Harris dealt with with why atheists have problems with faith in a single paragraph(The End of Faith, pg. 44):

Sam Harris - 27 July 2014 09:22 PM

It is time we recognized that belief is not a private matter; it has never been merely private. In fact, beliefs are scarcely more private than actions are, for every belief is a fount of action in potentia. The belief that it will rain puts an umbrella in the hand of every man or woman who owns one. It should be easy enough to see that belief in the fully efficacy of prayer, for instance, becomes an emphatically public concern the moment it is actually put into practice: the moment a surgeon lays aside his worldly instruments and attempts to suture his patients with prayer, or a pilot tries to land a passenger jet with nothing but repetitions of the word “Hallelujah” applied to the controls, we are swiftly delivered from the provinces of private faith to those of a criminal court.

[ Edited: 17 November 2009 02:38 PM by Argo]
Profile
 
 
Posted: 03 October 2010 08:30 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]  
Newbie
Rank
Total Posts:  1
Joined  2010-10-03

Hi, I think you have a great question that many Theists have and have never gotten a straight forward answer to.  First I would like to address the part which you say our rational thinking is limited to things that can only be verified by science.  This is completely untrue.  Not all things have to backed up by science for us to give credence to it.  When I say us I speak for me and the other atheist that I know, not everyone on this site may agree with me.  For us to say that something is true, factual, or for anyone to make a claim it has to be verified by ample amounts of evidence.  Science can change but it can only change one way.  That one way that it can change, is when scientists make a claim that has evidence to support it but then do ample amounts of research to prove that it is completely true.  During this process new understanding of this subject will arise and the theory or claim can be said to be a little different than what was originally claimed. This does not mean that the claim was completely false.  All that it means is that we as humans now have an even better understanding about a specific subject matter.  Scientists also do not say that something is 100% factual unless it can be proven to be 100% factual, that is why certain things a theories and not said to be fact.  Although, it is a theory because there is very ample amounts of evidence to support it, other wise the scientific community will not even allow it to be called a theory.  No, to the part you where you talk about the boat 80 miles off shore and the other things that you say, they can all be given the same answer.  But first let me use an analogy to that will not only answer these things but also will give another answer to the topic that I was just discussing.  My friend tells me that my girlfriend is cheating on me, do I automatically believe him? The answer is no.  I would first need to see ample evidence that she is in fact cheating on me.  Its not that I don’t trust my friend but I would want evidence to show that she in fact is.  So my point in saying this is Im not just going to assume something Im going to need evidence and this is not evidence that science can answer so I don’t need science in this situation but I can still investigate and find evidence to prove the claim true or false.  Also if it turned out that she was I would be very sad and want God to help because he makes me feel better and loved. Yet no matter how much God will make me fell better or in the case of the boat being capsized, giveing me hope of rescue, this does not mean he is real. This all might make me feel better and safer and any other thing that you might say, but still this does not make him real.  When it comes down to it there is still no evidence for his existence. No, I have no argument or have any anger with God, their is just no evidence for his existence. 
                                                                                                Thanks for reading, I hope this answers your question.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 03 January 2011 07:36 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]  
Newbie
Rank
Total Posts:  8
Joined  2010-10-12

[removed]

[ Edited: 23 August 2012 04:57 AM by TinyTony]
Profile
 
 
   
2 of 2
2
 
RSS 2.0     Atom Feed