Sam Harris

Mr. Mody…

Cleary you don’t understand evolution OR barbarism. According to you, ANYTHING that has evolved is there for a reason that HELPS and is BENEFICIAL and should not be ALTERED, because that would be BARBARIC. This is very similar thinking to dogmatic religion. Evolution is NOT scripture or liturgy. Nor is it always beneficial, since many distinct forces are evolving simultaneously and sometimes wind up at cross purposes. Finally, evolution is not limited to bodily tissue. Societies, ideas, customs…all evolve in similar ways to our bodies, and for the same reason. An often ephemeral survival value.

Religions, which I find fallacious and damaging, also arose via evolution, and whether the beliefs and customs have survival value today is debatable. I wouldn’t rule it out. Same goes for circumcision. Most women in my cultural group would not have wanted a man who was uncut, nor would they tolerate having a son who’s father insisted he was uncut. Is this a testament to the shallow conformity of most people today? Yes. But does evolution favor such conformity right now? Apparently so.

Barbarism is relative. You have no moral high ground when you attack circumcision, clitoris removal, or maiming of any kind. No more than a praying mantis who eats the head of her mate. What you do have is merely the right to exert your opinion and fight against something you feel is aesthetically displeasing—this concept of cutting something from an unconsenting baby. But you do so at your peril, because there are powerful forces behind these practices. Also, you risk wasting an inordinate amount of time…fueled by the questionable percept that it matters at all, fueled by FAITH that this tiny piece of skin matters one iota.

A much more appealing battle is the one Sam Harris wages. It’s a broad attack against forces that rob us of reality and life. Circucision, in contrast, seems tiny in comparison. Also, one might attack education for “circumcizing” excellence by forcing students into narrow roles and institutions, robbing many of them of their greater potentials.

Circumcised men are less likely to become infected with HIV when exposed to it. I saw it on the BBC 2 months ago.

There was a program on TV in the UK a few days ago that shows a link between circumcision & madness…
Guess that explains a lot seeing as it’s practice is widespread in Israel & the US… :wink:

[quote author=“riomarcos”]Circumcised men are less likely to become infected with HIV when exposed to it. I saw it on the BBC 2 months ago.

and a more recent show on the beeb said exactly the opposite…

or do they “pull out” before the nasty virus attacks the penis.  :wink:

what’s the rate of catholic circumcision I wonder?

They just did a show on this an agree with me.

[quote author=“Anonymous”]Barbarism is relative. You have no moral high ground when you attack circumcision, clitoris removal, or maiming of any kind. No more than a praying mantis who eats the head of her mate. What you do have is merely the right to exert your opinion and fight against something you feel is aesthetically displeasing—this concept of cutting something from an unconsenting baby. But you do so at your peril, because there are powerful forces behind these practices. Also, you risk wasting an inordinate amount of time…fueled by the questionable percept that it matters at all, fueled by FAITH that this tiny piece of skin matters one iota.

You contradict yourself. So, DOES IT matter, or it doesn’t?

As a person who grew up in a culture alien to circumsision I was unpleasantly surprised with the amount of pressure I experienced to get my sons circumsized when I came to the US. I doubt that this pressure was due to any scientific reasons, probably religious reasons in disguise, and I don’t wish religion to exert any pressure on me at all. So, even circumsision is not that benigh after all.

T.O.

[quote author=“snakechic”]what’s the rate of catholic circumcision I wonder?

Pretty low, the ones I’ve met are mostly complete pricks…

Y’know, the foreskin may not be as useful as the lungs or liver, but it’s not like its an apendix, or in the case of fundies, a brain. It does serve a purpose. It works in the same way as the eyelid does to protect the eye. It also produces emolients that carry anti-bactirial properties. If you don’t know what something does, you can find out in just five minutes of online research. Thats what I did.