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Ending Religion
Posted: 28 March 2006 02:59 PM   [ Ignore ]  
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Ending religion seems impossible to me given the snowball effect of the holy wars upon us. However, as Sam Harris points out, if we don't do something we are doomed.

I know religious people turn an immediate deaf ear on "non-believers" therefore I do not want to call myself a non-believer. I want to be heard by the Christian Right. I think we all need to take care that we are HEARD by religious people.

I am, in my limited spare time, trying to maintain a website that, as a baby step to get the christian right out of politics and out of society's hair in general, attempts to steer christians away from violence and toward the peaceful actions that Jesus taught.  I do not understand how people who call themselves "Christians" (Christ like) don't follow or even seem to know that Christ demands that his followers be peaceful and not in the pursuit of a buck.  So-called christians follow and vote for people who kill in pursuit of a buck. In my view they are therefore not "christian".

I am not as interested in preaching to the choir as I am in getting the congregation to be less violent.  I applaud Sam Harris's work and this website, but please remember that we need to change minds and hearts, and not just criticize religious people for their lack of either.

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Posted: 29 March 2006 01:26 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]  
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Sweet! Very much like the idea. You should do some forum hopping for extra help(i assume thats what your doing here), plenty of religious moderates out their to persaude.

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Posted: 30 March 2006 12:49 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]  
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Thanks! Now all I need is time and it’s running out quick.

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Posted: 30 March 2006 04:46 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]  
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You’re points are well-taken with me.  I know a lot of good people who see nothing wrong with believing in God but they just can’t make sense of the religious b.s.  The devout (fill-in-the-blank)s who condemn them are no role models for them or me.

The first problem is that you are preaching to the choir here, and outside of here you’re preaching to the least important bunch in the whole mix.  That is, Christians who have a mind that’s open enough to listen to reason.  You’re cavorting with the people who have nothing to do with the nearing end of human civilization.  You’re making your case to the spectators. 

Sam Harris calls them moderates and accuses them of being part of the problem.  I see them as more of a non-factor.  They don’t have the gumption to fight for anything that really matters.  Sam’s mistake is in the silly notion that their fighting would matter.

So the other option is to take the wack-jobs head on.  Try your best on some real devout muslims for a while.  Or maybe go cut your teeth on some good down-home Southern Baptists.  Not the mega-church TV, worldly types.  I mean the kind who still button the top button on their white shirts and call black people “colored.” 

See, the people who are making a difference happen to have a good measure of conviction.  It’s ill-placed, but it’s there, and not you, nor me, nor Sam Harris, nor any other genius in this forum is going to change that one single bit.  There is no individual in the entire world, not President Bush and not Bin Laden, who can make a dent in the outcome now. 

So, enjoy the time you have.  It’s precious.  Sit back and watch and make your peace with whatever you believe is watching.  The inmates are running the assylum.

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Posted: 31 March 2006 01:00 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]  
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Believe it or not, maybe it is easy to believe, I was reared as a born-again fundamentalist christian. I had that “born-again look” you describe. Because I got out of it with brain power I assume others can get out of it too.  Unfortunately I can only address “christians” because I understand their religion. I don’t know much about Muslims, but Sam Harris is catching me up fast. It’s scary stuff. So scary that I agree with you: there maybe nothing to do now but “enjoy” the ride to our final days.

And yes I do realize that this site is the choir, but this site helps me to remember that there are plenty of people with brain cells out there.

Thanks for your comments.

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Posted: 02 April 2006 10:00 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]  
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Many movements began with “one voice.” I think its OK to try and not just sit back and wait for Armaggedon.

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Bill Maher’s New Rule About Religious Tests for Office

Sam explains the difference between the belief in Elvis and belief in Jesus

Support the Separation of Church & State!
Freedom From Religion Foundation

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Posted: 03 April 2006 02:28 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]  
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[quote author=“sam_worcester”]Believe it or not, maybe it is easy to believe, I was reared as a born-again fundamentalist christian. I had that “born-again look” you describe. .

with this comment it sounds like you still need to do a little more work on yourself mate…..

Now all I need is time and it’s running out quick.

thats sounding very much like the same old - same old….
time is up…the end it neigh….

DOOM!

tick tick ...there’s that old clock of doom thang…

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Posted: 03 April 2006 08:19 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]  
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snakechic

Sam_worcestor

Quote:
Now all I need is time and it’s running out quick.


thats sounding very much like the same old - same old….
time is up…the end it neigh….

DOOM!

tick tick ...there’s that old clock of doom thang…

I think Sam is saying he is getting up in age mate

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Posted: 04 April 2006 02:06 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]  
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“Throughout history, it has been the inaction of those who could have acted; the indifference of those who should have known better; the silence of the voice of justice when it mattered most; that has made it possible for evil to triumph,” Haile Selassie.

“When it matter most” is the key. 

“You have heard that it has been said, ‘Thou shalt love thy neighbor and hate thine enemy.’ But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you,” Jesus (Matthew 5: 43-44).

If “Christians” can be taught to follow Christ’s words and seek high moral ground, maybe Muslim’s will shape up when they see that their beliefs make them the scum of the earth. It’s human nature to want to make your religion better than “their” religion.

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Posted: 26 April 2006 10:47 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]  
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Sam,

You said “Ending religion seems impossible to me given the snowball effect of the holy wars upon us.”

The main reason holy wars continue to prevail is because of the lack of education about religion.  Due to the curriculum of our schools and foreign schools, religion is not something that parents and board members want to see being taught in our schools.  So, kids grow up with the same religious influences throughout their lives.  Their parents and normally their parents’ friends seem to think the same way.. Church from when they’re little kids all the way up until they decide to go off to college and no longer are forced or pressured into going to church or mass with their families.  By then, changing a viewpoint is almost impossible.  One way to really start this process of “ending religion” or at least diminishing its influence is to “educate the masses” instead of baptizing them.

It would have been wonderful to learn little known or instructed facts about christianity, islam, judaism, celtic, roman, greek, and ancient middle eastern mythologies along with the early western hemisphere civilizations. especially far eastern religion and mythology as well.  The fact that the foundation of the “main religions” is peace, is what should make people question what’s happening in this world.  Islam means peace, jesus taught peace, judaism (whether it be hassidic or zadokite) taught peace.  What the hell happened to the message.  It’s like all the religious leaders around the world got together and played a crazy round of “telephone!”  Education is always the place to start.  Start EARLY.  Just like with languages, children pick them up the fastest b/c their minds are untainted and those sponge heads soak up everything.

Education!

Oh and by the way, I will be a history professor one day.

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Posted: 26 April 2006 11:47 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]  
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The Institute on Religion and Democracy (IRD) is what needs to be taken down. They are funded by the neocons, they have taken over the Southern Baptist Church and their objective is to take down every moderate christian church in the world. Lately the Church of Christ has been running TV ads to encourage attendance which has been declining. They welcome gays, mixed couples, etc. and the IRD has been hammering them for this policy. Taking down the IRD would be huge.

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Posted: 26 April 2006 11:50 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]  
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I actually have not heard of the IRD before. How long have they been around and what do you mean by “they have taken over the southern baptist church”?

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Posted: 26 April 2006 12:22 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]  
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Hardly anyone has heard of the IRD but they are responsible for most of the major right wing shifts we’ve been seeing in church doctrine over the past 10 years. They started in the early 1980s and were funded by organizations like the American Enterprise Inst., the Ethics and Public Policy Center, Scaife, Bradley, and Olin foundations; all neocon fronts.
During the Regan era they advocated military intervention into Nicaragua, Angola, and Cuba and intervention in Central America and the Caribbean. It challenged the patriotism and the belief systems of Christians who didn’t share its militarism and interventionist spirit. IRD considers the National Council of Churches (NCC) and its counterpart World Council of Churches to be instruments of liberalism and secularism.
Under particular aggressive attack are the Presbyterian, United Methodist, and Episcopal churches—with their combined membership of 14 million. The Right has already succeeded in taking over the largest Protestant denomination in the nation, the Southern Baptist Convention, and is using it effectively to advance its agenda.
IRD is closely allied with antifeminist organizations such as Concerned Women for America. Anti-abortion, anti-gay are of course two of it’s more obvious causes. Public display of Christian symbols, school prayer, and the financing and promoting of neocon politicians from school board members to the supreme court to the president of the united states.
They want to take over NCC churches not only philospically but for the hundreds of millions of dollars in assets they have in real estate and other assets.
There’s more but my fingers are getting tired.

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Posted: 26 April 2006 12:37 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]  
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So, does this seem to be what’s motiviating the protesters of the war and the government, not to mention the people showing up at funerals of dead american military service members and attempting to dishonor them?

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Posted: 26 April 2006 02:00 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]  
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As far as I know the only involvement the IRD has had was to promote and encourage our invasion of Iraq. My guess is that they also have their eye on Iran. I hadn’t heard about the funeral protests. That’s disgraceful.

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Posted: 26 April 2006 02:08 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]  
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These protests have been pretty well documented.  As they protest, they rejoice in the deaths of our service members b/c they view it as a sign of god.  They believe that god is visiting his wrath upon us because of our tolerance of homosexuality and other such crimes against the will of god.

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