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Misquoting Jesus : The Story Behind Who Changed the Bible
Posted: 06 April 2006 05:17 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 31 ]  
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[quote author=“frankr”]
Mia you, who asked the original question chimed in with a heroic “yeah what he said”...


Quite right… I shouldn’t let others speak for me. I was just trying to save my limited breath for a discussion that made some sense, since rebutting a *Catholic Scholar Approved* posting seems incredibly silly. You are in thrall to a myth, frankr, a thoroughly seduced disciple of those who urge you to defend it as if it were real.


Should my confidence in the sacred “deposits” of fairytale writers be increased if a hundred fairytale scholars put their official stamp of approval upon them? Or if the claim is made in ancient leather-bound tomes that each tale was surely composed through divine mental intercourse with the King of the Fairies? Would it help if the Fairy Priests donned colorful robes and waved incense under my nose, or dunked me in the Fairy Pond of Baptism? If I clap my hands, will this reassure the King and Prince that I believe? Oh! Then I must clap, lest I damage their fairy feelings and perhaps invite the wrath of the King!


You have shuttered the part of you that can discern these tales from reality, or recognize the scholars as being even further divorced from reality than you are. Surely there was a time long ago when you recognized reason, logic and evidence as being the sanest tools that a grown-up person can keep in their survival arsenal. But indoctrinization has caused you to fling those tools out into some distant ancient orbit, beyond the brilliant light of present time. The fact that you rely on the words of these scholars to back you up is to make clear that your faith cannot stand free of those desperately erected and absurdly wordy fortifications.


Frankr… we cannot compare the embrace of reality with the embrace of a ghost story, much less Ghost Scholars. Living outside of bondage to fairytales requires no bucking up or fancy language, although scientists do it for the sake of anchoring people to what’s real. Funny thing: were you aware that it was actually the simple failure to wash one’s hands in a hospital that caused the unchecked spread of disease, and that is was not God’s will or Satan’s influence after all? These are the things grown-up humans learn to recognize as evidence presents itself. Tall tales and invisible gods need not be put on pedastals in the Real World.


You seem to have long ago abandoned the path of sincere inquiry and have aborted the process of learning, presumably due to the effects of advanced religious programming? I get no sense of the free explorer in you, only the image of a “slave-who-likes-to-pretend-he’s-free”, the sort of guy who looks fairly normal, but who might break into an ardent rain dance at any given moment, assuming The Master wills it so. Did the Master send you here to the board? I think you must believe that, since there are no accidents in the Master Plan. You’re here to take the stage as God’s lone shepherd in a vast sea of sinning sheep, intent on single-handedly leading us back to his dungeon of servitude.


And btw… what is with this business of chalking up your lust for an argument… to your Irish heritage? Very amusing, since that smacks of a biological/evolutionary trait, not a God-given one. But since it’s probably the most reality-based thing you’ve said, I guess I applaud it. On the other hand, if I were your Church superior, I might suggest that wantonly aiming your God-given energies in such fruitless directions is a waste. He would surely urge you to renounce your addiction to this typed-out form of theistic masturbation and instead spend an extra hour down at the soup kitchen, or running a few errands for your elderly neighbors. Perhaps you might sit at the bedside of a sick Christian down at the local hospital. And I say “he” would advise this, because the Bible instructs you to suffer no instruction from a mere woman. I apologize profusely for having the gall to speak as though I have any wisdom whatsoever to impart upon a man. Timothy expressly forbids this (verify this with your scholars), so I trust that you will beg God’s forgiveness tonight for having even entertained my post. Blame it on your addiction.


Your craving for an argumentative environment is a bit of a worrisome puzzle, but since the human brain is still being explored in the Real World (sadly without your participation), maybe it can be explained as one of those cases of testosterone poisoning we hear about. Or maybe it’s that frantic binge people tend to indulge in when clinging to the last fraying threads of their faith. I suppose it’s at least useful that you exorcise your argument demons in here, and not on your wife, so on her behalf I thank you.


Have you ever considered, frankr, that the men who composed the Bible stories might well have been the Jimmy Swaggarts, Jim Bakkers and Jim Jonses of their day? Joseph Smiths, Pat Robertsons or David Koreshes, perhaps? Or here’s a scary thought… what if one of them was a treblinka?

 

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[ Edited: 07 April 2006 08:28 AM by ]
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Posted: 06 April 2006 06:18 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 32 ]  
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“Yeah what she said”!

Great job Mia!

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Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful…..Lucius Annaeus Seneca, Roman (3 BC - 65 AD)

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Posted: 07 April 2006 06:21 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 33 ]  
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[quote author=“TheChampion”]
But what would God have Conservative Atheist do?

Chump, as soon as that Mercedes SL 600 shows up in my driveway, we can talk….........BTW, did I mention that I want the sports model with the panoramic moon-roof?

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Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful…..Lucius Annaeus Seneca, Roman (3 BC - 65 AD)

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Posted: 07 April 2006 06:28 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 34 ]  
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Champ, I’d even take the 500, as long as it’s got the convertible hard top and it’s black.

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Philosophy may in no way interfere with the actual use of language; it can in the end only describe it. For it cannot give it any foundations either. It leaves everything as it is.
Ludwig Wittgenstein

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Posted: 08 April 2006 12:05 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 35 ]  
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Darn… I guess frankr either fell asleep trying to wade through my post, or *gasp* he actually heeded a woman’s advice and took a breather from the theistic masturbation thing.

Good for you, frankr, I’m sure you’re a better man for it wink!


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Posted: 08 April 2006 03:30 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 36 ]  
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He’s probably off having a theistic hissy fit over the Judas gospel.

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Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful…..Lucius Annaeus Seneca, Roman (3 BC - 65 AD)

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Posted: 08 April 2006 06:06 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 37 ]  
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Mia, that was a wonderful job, one of the best I’ve seen.

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http://powerlessnolonger.com

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Posted: 08 April 2006 08:03 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 38 ]  
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[quote author=“Mia”]-

Darn… I guess frankr either fell asleep trying to wade through my post, or *gasp* he actually heeded a woman’s advice and took a breather from the theistic masturbation thing.

Good for you, frankr, I’m sure you’re a better man for it wink!


_

I am sorry that I didn’t respond to the post, but if you insist I will. I didn’t reply to your post because it reminded me of Oakland. There’s no there, there. I think that was said by a feminist. What did you want me respond to the mental masturbation quip? “Wow mia that was really clever.” Or the Bible is a myth written by crazies and you fell for it. “Wow Mia that is really insightful” I like the last one youre a male and therefore poisoned by your own testosterone. “You really got that science thing down Mia! You are so smart!” Or all belevers are irrational lecture. “Wow Mia no one has ever said that before. It is all so clear now” You complain that we trolls are here and you complain when we do not respond. Are you exercising your women’s prerogative?

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Posted: 08 April 2006 09:05 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 39 ]  
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Nice post frankr!

Yeah Mia, what’s wrong with you?  Don’t you know the rightful place of women in the eyes of the church?  Haven’t you yet learned to subordinate yourself to men of faith the way that God intended?

Looks like the Catholic Church and frankr are just going to have to teach you a lesson…....maybe another 2000 years of organized and deliberate suppression of women will get the message across to you people.

Get down on your knees and beg for the benevolent forgiveness of the male hierarchy of the Catholic Church…..before it’s too late! 

In the name of the Father, the Son…….oh never mind.

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Posted: 08 April 2006 09:21 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 40 ]  
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C.A.
I think Mia more than capable of defending herself. I think your rush to protect Mia speaks volumes of your opinion of women. I don’t see such defenses when I criticize other posters on this forum but when I criticize Mia you are always the first to respond. Do I detect a little forum crush? “Me strong conservative atheist man must protect weak atheist woman from evil christians.” It is really touching C.A. It really is.

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Posted: 08 April 2006 09:32 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 41 ]  
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frankr, I just enjoy watching her kick your sanctimonious Catholic ass and want to do everything in my power to encourage her to continue doing so. 

This is such great fun!

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Posted: 08 April 2006 09:39 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 42 ]  
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It is spingtime and love is in the air or maybe I should say it is springtime and various chemicals and hormones are affecting brains giving the illusion that love actually exists. You go C.A. the Don Juan of the discussion forum.

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Posted: 08 April 2006 03:12 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 43 ]  
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homunculous and C.A… even though there was a good dose of inexcusable snarkiness in my response to frankr (a weakness I have thus far had only small success in resisting), gentlemanly instincts and words of encouragement regarding that which you find worthy will forever be greatly appreciated by women. Pretty much by everyone, actually wink.


Frankr… thank you for your responses… but can you not see how they reduced you? All I can picture now is a petulent 3rd-grader stamping his foot out on the playground because the other guys are rolling their eyes at your tall tales. I recognize your “it’s all that stupid girl’s fault”  tactic from long ago, the last bastion of a frustrated little boy’s meager defense.


Let me ask you this: I believe you’ve said—and correct me if I’m mistaken—that the church relies on a hand-in-hand combination of 1) the Biblical writings (at least since publishing the Bible was forced upon the church), and 2) the internal relationship that each person is expected to forge with Jesus/God….. In your case, which would you say most supports which? Did mental communion with Jesus/God come even before you read the Book, or did you read it first, then hear about the need to commune with Jesus, and then  discover His voice in your head/heart?


An extended question would be… what do you think of people who hear Jesus/God instructing them in their heads, yet have never read the Bible, or at best have read only a small fraction? Conversely, what do you think of those people who buy into every word of the Bible, yet have never genuinely forged any internal dialogue with Jesus/God? And what of those who have shared identical exposure to the written and spoken word, feel they personally know Jesus/God, yet see the truth very differently from each other, as treblinka seems to hold to remarkably different truths from yours?..... Are all variables equal in God’s eyes?


Bonus question, which I fear must be left dangling with all the others… Have you ever experienced a nagging fear that all the Biblical inconsistencies might mean the worst, that it’s just a bunch of questionably edited stories of myth complied for purposes of controlling/guiding people? Or that the voices in your head are just your own innate intelligence struggling nobly from day to day to meet your emotional needs in a challenging human existence?

[quote author=“C.A.”]
Get down on your knees and beg for the benevolent forgiveness of the male hierarchy of the Catholic Church…..before it’s too late!

 

Yeah, I’ll take a pass on that wink. Based on what we know now, you’ll agree it would be incredibly ill-advised for women or young boys to get on their knees to any Catholic priest. Unfortunately, I’d probably be safer than the little boy :(.


[quote author=“franr”]
It is spingtime and love is in the air or maybe I should say it is springtime and various chemicals and hormones are affecting brains giving the illusion that love actually exists.

 

I suspect it’s the latter, since it comes around like clockwork.

On the subject of chemicals and hormones… which ones start to percolating in you when your argument cravings come over you and demand satisfaction, frankr? You may not know this, but women also have small quantities of testosterone swishing around inside, doing chemical mischief, which helps me understand my moments of unforgivable snark wink.


In truth, one of the worst communication habits we humans can fall into is passive-aggression, i.e. snarkiness, i.e. the snide remark made with a smile. Even when I’m aware of what it is, I often resort to it. Seems that those who have a divine connection do it too, though.


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Posted: 08 April 2006 03:35 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 44 ]  
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Was I being passive? I’m sorry.

[ Edited: 08 April 2006 04:50 PM by ]
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Posted: 08 April 2006 04:07 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 45 ]  
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[quote author=“Mia”]Frankr… thank you for your responses… but can you not see how they reduced you? All I can picture now is a petulent 3rd-grader stamping his foot out on the playground because the other guys are rolling their eyes at your tall tales. I recognize your “it’s all that stupid girl’s fault” tactic from long ago, the last bastion of a frustrated little boy’s meager defense.

I know this is supposed to be witty banter but what is the stupid girls fault. Is this a reaction to what I said to you or my harassing you knight in Shining Armor, C.A. ? If its the former, I think your giving yourself too much credit. If its the latter, I don’t get it.

[quote author=“Mia”]Let me ask you this: I believe you’ve said—and correct me if I’m mistaken—that the church relies on a hand-in-hand combination of 1) the Biblical writings (at least since publishing the Bible was forced upon the church), and 2) the internal relationship that each person is expected to forge with Jesus/God

You are confusing me with someone else. The voices in my head or lack there of have nothing to do with the existence of God.  Nor does the church rely on my personal relationship with Jesus. The Church was here long before me and will remain long after I am gone. The Church is here for me not I for She.  I rely. As to the teaching authority of the Church it goes hand in hand with Sacred Scripture and Sacred tradition.

I have answered your silly questions (and this is not meant to be snarky) regarding the Bible. Remember I even linked the Vatican web site. Don Juan rebutted eloquently by calling it bullshit and you said yeah I agree. Something like that. I know the answer made little impresssion. I will reiterate Christ and the Church preceded the Bible. The Church picked out the books of the Bible. So when you quote Bible passages to show that Catholicism is false then you are giving weight to words that the Church chose as being inspired by God. Everytime you throw a Bible verse at me you are supporting the authority of the Catholic Church. This irony seems lost on you all.

Here is a nagging fear. Its all true. I’m wrong and I sleep without dreams.

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