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Posted: 17 April 2006 12:14 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 31 ]  
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I admitted I was wrong and erased my statement. Can I do more?

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Posted: 17 April 2006 12:17 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 32 ]  
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[quote author=“FaixaPreta”][quote author=“frankr”]This guy is kidding? Please tell me you are kidding. “You want to find a mate” I think your trouble is not your atheism but your language. Chimps and penguins have mates (and sometimes australians) but people rarely use that word when searching for romance. I want to mate with you and together we can breed and have offspring thus ensuring the survival of our species. Your namesake spent a lifetime seducing young women for fun. I am sure he never used mate as a verb or a noun in his conquests. It was a courageous post but next time use the Private message function. Save yourself the embarassment.

First, I am not embarassed nor should I be for asking another person, specifically a woman who opposes religion, or at least it seems she does, why I seem to find only religious-leaning women which reject someone like myself who questions religious dogma, and since I refuse to believe in that crap, this makes it impossible to find true friends of the opposite sex.

You are very naive fella. I am not seeking a mate here. I am seeking others’ viewpoints on Harris’ book. Apparently, I have run into a religious neanderthal, who only knows how to insult someone, when it isn’t necessary. My question to Mia actually frames a problem which many atheist or agnostic men here can relate to. I did not say “my atheism” was the problem. The problem is a lack of intelligent women like Mia; the problem is women who cannot marry a man who doesn’t believe as they do, even after they have already fallen in love with him. I know from experience because this has happened to me twice. I could accept them for their beliefs but they couldn’t reciprocate towards me, since they felt compelled to force me to believe their way. They were closed-minded. Perhaps she could enlighten all of us as to why this situation exists? Women seem especially susceptible to religion…

Just checking.

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Posted: 17 April 2006 12:42 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 33 ]  
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Sartre
I was going to leave this one alone. I felt I was over the top in my response. I am glad now that I did respond. I thought your email was much more harmless than this. I am glad you straightened me out. I thought you were trying to get a date but you were actually seeking a woman’s opinion. (The are you as attractive as your posts line threw me off) Well I really am sorry for this is a much better question. I want to see the atheists answer this one. If your name is lawrence summers you need not answer. Why is that women are foolish and naive in greater numbers than men when it comes to religion? Why are more women than men susceptible to the patriachal oppressive religion? This religious neanderthal would like to know. Great question Sartre I am sorry for the earlier remarks.

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Posted: 17 April 2006 12:57 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 34 ]  
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[quote author=“Sartre2.0”]

First, I am not embarassed nor should I be for asking another person, specifically a woman who opposes religion, or at least it seems she does, why I seem to find only religious-leaning women which reject someone like myself who questions religious dogma, and since I refuse to believe in that crap, this makes it impossible to find true friends of the opposite sex.

You are very naive fella. I am not seeking a mate here. I am seeking others’ viewpoints on Harris’ book. Apparently, I have run into a religious neanderthal, who only knows how to insult someone, when it isn’t necessary. My question to Mia actually frames a problem which many atheist or agnostic men here can relate to. I did not say “my atheism” was the problem. The problem is a lack of intelligent women like Mia; the problem is women who cannot marry a man who doesn’t believe as they do, even after they have already fallen in love with him. I know from experience because this has happened to me twice. I could accept them for their beliefs but they couldn’t reciprocate towards me, since they felt compelled to force me to believe their way. They were closed-minded. Perhaps she could enlighten all of us as to why this situation exists? Women seem especially susceptible to religion…

I hear ya brother.  I’ve run into that exact problem in the dating world myself.  Just ask yourself if you really want someone whose mind is closed off to that extent to be the mother of your children.  I certainly don’t.

It looks like Frank made a few assumptions that turned out to be wrong in interpreting what you wrote.  No doubt, a habit he picked up by exhaustive reading of a 2000 year old tome and interpreting it as an accurate take on reality.

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Posted: 17 April 2006 01:24 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 35 ]  
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[quote author=“FaixaPreta”]
It looks like Frank made a few assumptions that turned out to be wrong in interpreting what you wrote.  No doubt, a habit he picked up by exhaustive reading of a 2000 year old tome and interpreting it as an accurate take on reality.

[quote author=“Sartre2.0”]My feeling is that if a man is unattached and looking for a like-minded woman such as might post here, say for example, like you, how likely is it that this guy would ever find her? Your postings are very mature and persuasive. Are you as attractive as your postings appear to the naked eye?

You’re right I was making some bold far out assumptions. Must be all my Bible reading that has messed up my reasoning skills

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Posted: 17 April 2006 01:29 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 36 ]  
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[quote author=“frankr”][quote author=“FaixaPreta”]
It looks like Frank made a few assumptions that turned out to be wrong in interpreting what you wrote.  No doubt, a habit he picked up by exhaustive reading of a 2000 year old tome and interpreting it as an accurate take on reality.

[quote author=“Sartre2.0”]My feeling is that if a man is unattached and looking for a like-minded woman such as might post here, say for example, like you, how likely is it that this guy would ever find her? Your postings are very mature and persuasive. Are you as attractive as your postings appear to the naked eye?

You’re right I was making some bold far out assumptions. Must be all my Bible reading that has messed up my reasoning skills


Perfect.  It looks like you’ve now retracted your apology.  Will the real frankr please stand up?

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Posted: 17 April 2006 02:28 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 37 ]  
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You pat your buddy on the back and tell him how stupid I am in my assumptions. You question my whole view on reality. I quote you and him and somehow this amounts to retracting my retraction. I took my original post down because it was harsh and unnecessary. It was mean spirited. I did not take it down because it was untrue.

Why aren’t you answering the other part of the question. Why are women more religious than men? They seem to carry all the burdens of religion and get none of the benefits. Yet walk into a weekday Mass and the vast majority of those worshipping are women? Any atheist men care to opine on this fact.

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Posted: 17 April 2006 02:52 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 38 ]  
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All this romantic drama, and I had to be off doing TurboTax while it was percolating?! Argh!

Sartre2 . . . first off, thank you for your honest post, and for the compliments. You bring up a truth that is literally always on the mind of unattached (and many attached) human beings - “Where is my mate?” Personally, I prefer that word, as opposed to lover, partner, etc. . . ‘mate’ just covers the intent perfectly, and I think it’s got a nice sound to it.


As for finding those of like mind . . . there are real options now! I referred to one in the opening post of this thread, one of the advertisers I saw in the banners over at Internet Infidels. That one is called freethinkermatch.com .  You can search their network and view little thumbprint images, but to click on the details of a person, you do have to at least register, which I did even though I’m strictly a windowshopper at this stage. Always fun to look and dream a little.


An IIBD thread also mentioned that match.com (which is of course huge) can be searched using specific religious criteria. Granted, we all know that a picture and a few words online do not transmit the whole complicated package of a person, their true vibe, but you can see if any of them ring your chimes, and better yet, ring them from somewhere within driving distance wink. Good luck, Sartre2!


Some other non-theist dating resources that came up on google:

http://www.secularity.com/

http://www.atheistpassions.com/

http://www.freethinkerpersonals.com/ (different from freethinkermatch.com)


If I may, one itty bitty caution on first impressions . . .  As I windowshopped, many of the headlines nearly bellowed with Atheist Pride, and I mean in a cocky “Eff you if you don’t like it” sort of way. Yuck, I say. Speaking for myself, shedding religious superstition has been life-altering, but I don’t believe I need to wear a sandwich board announcing it. My point is, you’re already on a flippin’ freethinker dating site, meaning that it’s a given. Details about exactly which flavor  of non-superstition applies to you can be discussed within the body of your profile, so consider using the headline to speak from your heart, express your humor, highlight your hobby, quote a song lyric you relate to, state that you just want to get laid, whatever raspberry. But chest-thumping about atheism is not particularly alluring, the equivalent of making your love for Jesus the subject of your opening chat-up line to a religious woman. At a site like this, she’s already in the market for an atheist, so focus instead on the rest of what you have to offer.


Did anyone see “Hitch” with Will Smith? I just saw it the other night and am suddenly feeling like the date doctor wink. Love it!


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[ Edited: 17 April 2006 04:22 PM by ]
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Posted: 17 April 2006 03:15 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 39 ]  
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[quote author=“Ted Shepherd”]
Mia, the large number of participants at Internet Infidels gives me a problem. It’s hard to find the time and patience to read through hundreds of posts before participating in a thread, but participating without reading exposes me to the risk of repeating what others have said. I started to read the story of the uncoversion of the woman you mentioned, and I had to quit for now after reading part I. I am sorry that she suffered that kind of upbringing, but it isn’t good for my morale to dwell on it.

Understood wink. I confess I haven’t posted yet either . . . but hope that as I read and get caught up a bit, it might feel more comfy to join a conversation. Takes time. I registered here at Sam’s board in November of last year, shortly after it became starkly obvious to me that I couldn’t “get the toothpaste back in the tube” regarding a disbelief in the biblical God. But I lurked silently until March . . . 1) because treb and Champ’s presence made my skin crawl, and 2) because so many of my favorite posters here are so well-read and intellectual. It was just nerve-wracking trying to guess whether I’d be allowed in . . . or dismissed.

One thing I know that a lot of people over at IIDB seem to do, and that’s to find one or two specific areas of the forum that they can relate to—parenting or politics—and only hang out there for awhile.


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Posted: 17 April 2006 03:28 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 40 ]  
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[quote author=“frankr”] Why aren’t you answering the other part of the question. Why are women more religious than men? They seem to carry all the burdens of religion and get none of the benefits. Yet walk into a weekday Mass and the vast majority of those worshipping are women? Any atheist men care to opine on this fact.

frankr wrote: Why are women more religious than men?

I’m not sure this is a fair question.  The sheer number of God fearers (some 85% of the population according to Sam) in the U.S. makes it highly unlikely not to run into one – at any place and at any time.  I would venture a guess that the percentage of atheists is roughly equal between the sexes (I have absolutely no data to back that up – just a guess based on my own observation.)  While I have encountered the phenomena outlined by Satre2.0, I’ve also crossed paths with a few who share a world view similar to mine or who simply don’t think about the subject at all (I live in L.A. – what would you expect?)

I’ll take your word that women are disproportionately represented at midday in churches in America because I honestly cannot remember the last time I was in a church in America.  I’ve been to many many churches and cathedrals in Europe however – it’s a tourist thing – and it seems that the sexes are about equally represented there (amongst the locals at midday)

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Posted: 17 April 2006 03:41 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 41 ]  
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[quote author=“Sartre2.0”]
Women seem especially susceptible to religion…

It’s hard to be analytical about this, but here are some thoughts.

We’ve all seen how the vast majority of women have deferred to men throughout history, and know that the Bible was uniquely designed to exploit and enforce that tendency. I don’t know what plays the greater role in helping it along, whether it’s nature or nurture, but I do know that the statements made in holy books have long worked wonders in trapping women inside a framework of subservient thought. Most versions of Christianity make it abundantly clear that God has decreed man as head of the household, the decision maker, the dominant one in terms of getting his needs met and having the final say. The book is riddled with stories that need not be restated here, but the way they dishonor and shame women is truly heartbreaking.

I absorbed this dark message all through my upbringing, so I consider it a miracle that I can see clearly now (mostly). For whatever reason, probably based on my example, I just took it  for a lot longer than I ever should have without calling it into question. Even if it was ‘only’ mental bondage to the supernatural, it was still a sad waste of years that could’ve been spent out in the light.


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Posted: 17 April 2006 04:36 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 42 ]  
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Why are women more religious than men?

 

A recent Gallup Poll suggests that American women cherish their faith more and are more active in their congregations than men. The poll of about 1,000 American adults conducted last month found that 69 percent of women think religion is a very important part of their lives while only 53 percent of men feel the same. And 48 percent of women polled said they had attended worship services at least once in the past week, compared with 37 percent of men.

Some of the reasons suggested for this disparity include the tradition that women have usually assumed the role of caregiver for the family, which can mean providing for religious education for children, and the fact that there has always been a strong tradition of women being involved in their churches - more so than for men.

Even with the best of intentions, men can get into a lot of trouble by speculating about the differences between men and women. (See, for example, the story of the former president of Harvard University at
  )

So, for now, I’ll skip the guess-work and go read this instead:
  Are Women More Religious than Men?

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Posted: 17 April 2006 05:01 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 43 ]  
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Ted Shepherd

Even with the best of intentions, men can get into a lot of trouble by speculating about the differences between men and women. (See, for example, the story of the former president of Harvard University at
http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2005/01/17/summers_remarks_on_women_draw_fire/)

I remember when that happened, I believe that he has lost his position now. Why he would postulate such a question is beyond me. For the record, the only differences I can see is the following:

Women are…..
1. Faster
2. Stronger
3. More tolerant
4. Less likely to be offended.
5. More courageous
6. More analytical
7. More even tempered
8. Selfless
9. Less moody

I could go on and on but Sam may not have the storage space.

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Posted: 17 April 2006 05:31 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 44 ]  
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Interesting topic, and politically incorrect as well, at least potentially. I must say I’ve never noticed women being more susceptible to religious claims than men. This is the first I’ve heard of such a thing. My best guess would be that, since I assume we’re discussing American women, and in America Jesus’ is the biggest religion, and Jesus was, for the most part, female-oriented in the sense of nurturing, pro-love anti-violent—it’s at least possible that women naturally align with Jesus more easily than men. At least that’s my wild guess.

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Posted: 17 April 2006 05:49 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 45 ]  
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It can’t be denied that church is a vital social outlet for women who might otherwise have no alternative place to connect with other adults leading similar lives. And since women would seem to be the more social of the genders (or is that a generalization?), having that weekly excuse to gather under like-minded circumstances makes perfect sense for those who aren’t inclined to venture into more complicated options. It’s perceived as ‘safe’, is kid and husband-approved, so I think the environment itself serves as a natural magnet for them. All this without ever needing God, I might add, but God does provide a convenient and non-controversial framework for the whole thing.


One of my friends says he’s absolutely certain that most of the unattached men (he’s not sure about the women) at his church attend not out of strong faith, but for the chance to hang out with men and women in an acceptabled setting that actually encourages people to talk, break bread together, make plans for other social stuff . . . Makes sense. It’s what I think many people miss most once they shed a faith.


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