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Internet Infidels!
Posted: 04 June 2006 04:23 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 76 ]  
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Veering back in the general direction of the OP . . . I continue to dig the Internet Infidels forums, although it’s a gradual process. No other way to go through all the major threads except  gradually. So many tempting topics, so many Big Brain concepts. Right now I’m crawling around in the Science and Skepticism area. With aspirin kept close at hand, of course wink.

What I like most is the sense of order that’s kept there. Not censoring, by any means, but it’s clear they actually have very active and clueful moderators, and a wide range of well-read and studied contributors that keep the material and the discussions both organized and engrossing. TOO engrossing. In trying to replace all the dead space once occupied by blind faith, it’s tempting to spend huge blocks of time at this. I guess it’s only natural to want to take long looks around after the lights get turned on again, though. The darkness of faith was not conducive to acquiring real knowledge.

If anyone is willing, please divulge your posting name over at IIDB so I can know you when I see you there. With all their recent server overload issues, I ended up registering twice; the first one wasn’t accepting my password this week. But then it righted itself, so now there are two mias :?. Can’t seem to delete the dupe.

I’ve held off on entering convos so far because of so many lucid thinkers who do it way better. It makes me wonder what the ratio of posters to lurkers is over there. Anyway, I’m happy just munching my popcorn and reading along, until I feel overwhelmed with compulsion to dive in wink.


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Posted: 04 June 2006 04:36 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 77 ]  
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. . . One thing I haven’t figured out over there is how to narrow down the New Posts, like we can on this forum. You know, so that it lists only the threads that have been active since your previous visit? Anybody know if they have that feature?


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Posted: 04 June 2006 06:11 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 78 ]  
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Mia, does this mean you don’t love us anymore? I hope not. We may be small but we know what we’re doing here.

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Philosophy may in no way interfere with the actual use of language; it can in the end only describe it. For it cannot give it any foundations either. It leaves everything as it is.
Ludwig Wittgenstein

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Posted: 04 June 2006 11:39 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 79 ]  
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Now who couldn’t love the brain-nourishment found at this forum 8).


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Posted: 08 June 2006 03:12 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 80 ]  
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[quote author=“Mia”]-
If anyone is willing, please divulge your posting name over at IIDB so I can know you when I see you there. With all their recent server overload issues, I ended up registering twice; the first one wasn’t accepting my password this week. But then it righted itself, so now there are two mias :?. Can’t seem to delete the dupe.

I’ve held off on entering convos so far because of so many lucid thinkers who do it way better. It makes me wonder what the ratio of posters to lurkers is over there. Anyway, I’m happy just munching my popcorn and reading along, until I feel overwhelmed with compulsion to dive in wink.


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Mia

I can’t see the point of you lurking.  You should post more.  You are eloquent and any POV on any topic is welcomed over there as long as one does not make hateful comments or post huge volume of cut/past material from other websites.  I think your POV would be welcomed.

I post there as Noggin.

Recently, I have been on an EOF bender so I don’t think I have actually posted there for a couple of months.  Truth be told, there are a few times when one of my topics here provides a completely different set of reactions over there so from time to time I will post the same thread there as I do here just to compare notes from the two different forums.

I don’t do that too often as it gets confusing.

BUT.  Lurking only gets your intellect so far.  I enjoy getting raked over the coals if I make an innocently ignorant comment.  I never try to be ignorant purposefully.  But if there is something in my grey matter that needs an adjustment, how else am I going to identify it???  I can’t spot my own ignorance or intolerance or idiocy or insensitivity.  Just the other day here on EOF I posted about the holocaust and somebody pointed out that I was making it an entirely jewish tragedy when in reality many ethnicities were represented.  He was spot on.  I have now willfully tried to adjust my thinking and sensitivity when I post my thoughts on the topic.

Ain’t it great?

Have at it at IIDB.  I look forward to seeing your thoughts over there.

Noggin

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Posted: 08 June 2006 01:46 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 81 ]  
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Well, I posted a profile, measly though it may be as a starting point, but little by little I’ll get to posting wink. I do like ‘listening’ for while before joining a conversation, maybe because I question the validity of my position until I’ve mulled the existing ones. That also may be a remnant of indoctrination, though—that our own gut reactions cannot possibly be relied upon, and that only a Bibically-centered position has any validity. I was simply not taught to trust my own thoughts. . . isn’t that pitiful :(?

I also feel that others there usually state things with more clarity. I so often think “Yes! That’s what I was thinking!”. . . except that my post would’ve been way more scattered in its points :oops:. As you probably can tell, I come from a basis in emotion, not logic. Sometimes the two happen to align, but more often I’m ‘feeling’ my answer, not reasoning it. I think that makes me the poster child for “irrational” in more cases than I would like.

Not to say I have no confidence in what my gut tells me, or that my confidence isn’t growing; it is. Since reclaiming my life back from God, I see my hesitation as a thoughtful pause. Besides, so often I am wrong, or, if not wrong, at least limited in my perspective. This came up only recently on a thread here, in my moral reaction to a topic relating to sexuality (the strip club thing). This area is in conflict for me—what I consider ethical as opposed to what “reality” would say about sexuality and the way society has boxed that up. I like discussions about it—love them in fact—but fear that in a male-dominated atheist forum, I would be pummeled wink. So I’m just trying to open my mind little by little to the fact that my ‘perspective’ can only ever be my own. Ethics vary and gender perspectives vary. Being that it’s the core of our existence, though—meaning sexuality and our sanity on that subject—I do find it important that atheists look closely at the ramifications of their behavior. It can feel ‘natural’ yet still be harmful and hurtful to others, can it not? Is the harm only the fault of the one who feels harmed, because they’re not realistically facing and accepting what’s supposedly ‘natural’? This is an open question for me.

I’m even reticent to have said that much rolleyes. I think I’m a bit too old-fashioned. I’m deeply sexual, but also deeply monogamous, and have not determined how to BE that and not also expect others to be that, or even why I should. In short, I think I’m still in a box there, but a box that I tend to like a lot. Does that mean I still live in a dream world? This is my ongoing question to myself.


Noggin, you always get me off on a tangent; cut it out wink!


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Posted: 09 June 2006 02:26 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 82 ]  
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[quote author=“Noggin”]
Have at it at IIDB.  I look forward to seeing your thoughts over there.

Noggin

Ya know how folks here at Sam’s place are always asking what we can do to help spread our ideas and end faith?  Let’s get some IIDBers over here by posting this link.  A lot that’s talked about here isn’t consistently talked about over there.

http://www.samharris.org/forum/

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Posted: 09 June 2006 04:18 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 83 ]  
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[quote author=“cocallag”]
A lot that’s talked about here isn’t consistently talked about over there.

And vice versa. I think topics dealing in emotion and relationships, for example, might find a better home over at IIDB. They have a ‘secular lifestyle’ area and a lounge, etc, which makes it easier to dive into topics that aren’t necessarily tied to the fate of the world, or politics, for instance. The focus of Sam’s book is serious stuff, as it should be, so it feels a little frivolous to introduce emotion-based subject-matter here. And yet I wallow in them wink! I just finished posting my first thread there, decided to pick a popular theme for the purposes of shamelessly snagging posters. Hope to see you there :D.


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[ Edited: 09 June 2006 04:21 PM by ]
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Posted: 09 June 2006 04:21 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 84 ]  
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[quote author=“Mia”]-

[quote author=“cocallag”]
A lot that’s talked about here isn’t consistently talked about over there.

And vice versa. I think topics dealing in emotion and relationships, for example, might find a better home over at IIDB. They have a ‘secular lifestyle’ area and a lounge, etc, which makes it easier to dive into topics that aren’t necessarily tied to the fate of the world, or politics, for instance. The focus of Sam’s book is serious stuff, as it should be, so it feels a little frivolous to dive into emotion-based topics here. And yet I wallow in them wink! I just finished posting my first thread over there, decided to pick a popular theme for the purposes of shamelessly snagging posters. Hope to see you there :D.


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I’ll be there in a sec.  Hope I can find you.

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Posted: 12 June 2006 03:54 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 85 ]  
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I’ve been posting on IIDB for many years now. It’s really a great forum and a good website.

Lately there have been server issues and right now IIDB is down..hence why I am here, hehe.

Anyway over at IIDB we could sure use more people who have read “The End of Faith” and willing to talk about the ideas in it to other nonbelievers…IMO far too many just don’t want to actively criticize religion…heck some atheists even think that they need to hide their atheism and such.

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Posted: 12 June 2006 04:29 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 86 ]  
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[quote author=“debaser71”]IMO far too many just don’t want to actively criticize religion…heck some atheists even think that they need to hide their atheism and such.

And why do you think that is the case?

I submit they don’t want to reveal this important aspect of their personality in order to avoid disputes with close friends or relatives, or even with their spouse. Can you imagine the problems associated with telling your wife that you are, in fact, an atheist and she is an avowed believer in monotheism? Divorce court is a possibility. I’ve found that atheist or agnostic women are few and far between, and how would one find them? With this characteristic of avoidance being very prevalent, it’s no wonder they are not easily found out. That makes it very difficult for a divorced man like myself; seeking an agnostic woman to marry or just fall in love with is a tall task. Friendship would be a given if she could be located and befriended. So many avoid the hassle and stay in the religious closet. It provides a comforting look at the silliness, and sometimes, repugnant nature of religion in society. One is “hiding” just as Mia hides at a related atheist forum, in order to gain insight and feedback upon her views.

As we age, it seems we become more serious about the religious questions, especially death and life after death. Many aging adults feel the pressure to conform and believe. They are afraid and wish to “save their own skin”. The Pascal Wager seems to work for many, and they side with belief, just in case God does exist. They think this gamble will save their soul.

Also, there is a subtle form of discrimination at work and in social life against atheists, but it has been sublimated, just as racial discrimination has become sublimated in order to hide its presence.

[ Edited: 13 June 2006 05:03 AM by ]
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Posted: 12 June 2006 04:50 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 87 ]  
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^ all valid but I subscribe to the notion that my silence implies my consent

So all those reasons no not come out can be reversed into reasons why people ought to come out. The more people that come out the more others will see how normal everyday people can be atheists too, not just the caricature thet have in their mind about atheists.

Also when atheists are out of the closet it serves as an example for others that they too can “opt out” of religion altogether.

I won’t say all atheists should come out because there are very real rammifications of doing so, but IMO if one wants to “help the cause” then at least they need to come out.

It’s easy to belittle, ignore, demonize others especially when one of those others aren’t there at all. Lori Liptman Brown (sp, secular lobbyist in Washington) was on FFRF radio show and she was talking about her mere presence helps…I’m applying the same idea to everyday people and everyday happenings.

But there are many out atheists who also don’t want to go the route of criticizing religion because of the taboo’s Sam Harris talks about. These type of folk is more what I am referring to.

When we speak out it makes it easier for others to come out and speak out themselves.

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Posted: 12 June 2006 05:25 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 88 ]  
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Mark Twain had a backhanded comment on the consent of the silent. Just read a short essay of his called “My First Lie and How I Got Out of It”. Actually, it was amusing in that he didn’t remember his first lie, but remembered the second very well. He was nine days old and whined even when the diaper pin was not sticking him…very devious.

all valid but I subscribe to the notion that my silence implies my consent

One of his thoughts was that we are all liars to some extent and we create “the clammy stillness created and maintained by the lie of silent assertion—-the silent assertion that there wasn’t anything going on in which humane and intelligent people were interested.” How many assertions? “Not so very many, perhaps, but say a billion—-just so as to keep within bounds.”

Got to love him.

Rod

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