That still doesn’t change the truth”
Posted: 02 February 2011 09:46 AM   [ Ignore ]  
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Does anyone come across people who will categorically throw out your atheistic position and claim that regardless of what you say, “that still doesn’t change the truth”.  This is often spoken with a puffed-up chest, or written in such a way that the writer seems to have some special knowledge of what the truth is.  Truth about what, exactly?  The implication here is that Christians have some kind of hotline with God that atheists like myself pine for (I don’t) and could never have (don’t want it, thank you very much).

What is this “truth” they always speak of?  Because when I ask, they never tell me - they just tell me to “find Jesus”.

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-John

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Posted: 08 February 2011 12:48 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]  
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NoGoingBack - 02 February 2011 02:46 PM

Does anyone come across people who will categorically throw out your atheistic position and claim that regardless of what you say, “that still doesn’t change the truth”.  This is often spoken with a puffed-up chest, or written in such a way that the writer seems to have some special knowledge of what the truth is.  Truth about what, exactly?  The implication here is that Christians have some kind of hotline with God that atheists like myself pine for (I don’t) and could never have (don’t want it, thank you very much).

What is this “truth” they always speak of?  Because when I ask, they never tell me - they just tell me to “find Jesus”.

Thanks
-John

They presuppose that Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life ( The Gospel of John). So if ya find Jesus you find the truth. The Koine Greek aletheia means reality or trustworthiness, the nature of things rather than statements of facts. So they do believe they have a hotline to God and do not realize their arrogance in doing so. That is why you really have to use their own scripture against them in a discussion since science is “only” factual and can not obtain the truth!!!!

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Posted: 13 February 2011 01:28 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]  
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Hey John,

I hear this often from those Christians willing to discuss, to an extent, their faith.  I get the same response; especially, when they run out of reasons.  Then, they just want to brush off being convinced because they feel, as the Dr. Bill Craig says, ‘the power of the holy spirit’ inside of them.  Dr. Craig usually goes on to say that regardless of the changing “sands” of science and philosophy, “I witness the Holy Spirit in my heart”.  I think this might underpin what we both come across.  The attitude is that when reasons fail, faith is the final backdrop no matter what.  Non-evidence is their basis for believing; this seems to me to be what makes that style of thinking uncooperative to criticism, to speak lightly of it.

Scott D. J.

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Posted: 22 March 2011 07:51 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]  
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Hi John,

Its like Indiana Jones says in Holy Grail… “Archaeology is the search for fact ... not truth. If it’s truth you’re interested in, Dr. Tyree’s philosophy class is right down the hall.”  I think a lot of humans search for truth, and unfortunately they often find it in faith based religion.  Hopefully one day fact and truth will truly be the same.

Mary

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Posted: 25 March 2011 12:06 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]  
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More sophism on their part.  The art of obfuscation has found its zenith in religion/apologetics.  Just try asking Mormons, for example, to substantiate their claims in any way.  Just about guarantee you will be accused of personally attacking them, after being informed that you don’t ‘know the truth’.

I was actually called an idiot in a comments section on a recent MSNBC article for asking (repeatedly) for LDS members to help me understand their claims by providing something substantial.  Scriptural quotes and insults followed.  Go figure.

[ Edited: 25 March 2011 12:10 PM by JeffMoker]
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Posted: 15 April 2011 10:05 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]  
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Scott D. J. - 13 February 2011 06:28 AM

Hey John,

I hear this often from those Christians willing to discuss, to an extent, their faith.  I get the same response; especially, when they run out of reasons.  Then, they just want to brush off being convinced because they feel, as the Dr. Bill Craig says, ‘the power of the holy spirit’ inside of them.  Dr. Craig usually goes on to say that regardless of the changing “sands” of science and philosophy, “I witness the Holy Spirit in my heart”.  I think this might underpin what we both come across.  The attitude is that when reasons fail, faith is the final backdrop no matter what.  Non-evidence is their basis for believing; this seems to me to be what makes that style of thinking uncooperative to criticism, to speak lightly of it.

Scott D. J.

Dr. Craig gives many logically valid arguments for the existence of God. Furthermore, why can’t you know something without being able to prove it? Can you prove you own existence to me? (I would not fall back on Descartes “Cogito Ergo Sum,” because I believe it was refuted by Bertrand Russell) If you could not, it would not follow that you do not have good grounds for accepting your own existence. I contend that you by your experiences you conclude you exist. This is what Dr. Craig is claiming that belief in God can be. It is not based on non-evidence as you suggest, but the evidence of direct experience (in this case of God). As I mentioned, this is how I contend we conclude the most basic beliefs we have are true, such as our own existence.

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“...rid yourselves of all malice and all deceit, hypocrisy, envy, and slander of every kind.” (1 Peter 2:1, NIV)

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