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Posted: 05 May 2006 02:07 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]  
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H.S., I didn’t know referring to a church as a club would get under your skin. Thanks for the tipoff. It’s now part of my normal vocabulary.

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Philosophy may in no way interfere with the actual use of language; it can in the end only describe it. For it cannot give it any foundations either. It leaves everything as it is.
Ludwig Wittgenstein

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Posted: 05 May 2006 03:19 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]  
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H.S., I didn’t know referring to a church as a club would get under your skin. Thanks for the tipoff. It’s now part of my normal vocabulary.

It’s not just A club, it’s THE club!  Don’t you know that satan forsaw the establishment of this club, and created all the other popular clubs of the day, with many of the same characteristics, including eating the god-figure, executing him in some manner, and bringing him back from the dead somehow.

The laughable thing about Christianity, to me, is that most of the adherents act as though it was totally unique.  The rituals of Club Christos differ not a whit from those of several earlier religions, and it’s about time they realized that. 

Perhaps the United States was founded upon Mithric principals.  Different club, same bylaws.

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Posted: 05 May 2006 07:10 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]  
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Q (homunculus):

What forces (i.e., political, Holy Spirit, . . . ?) caused the RCC to stop tying up human beings and torching them?

A (frankr):

I would say cultural.

Frank, I admire your honesty. I’ve jokingly alluded to your presence here as an obvious attempt to escape the mental traps you’ve allowed your religion to set up in your reality. Now, for the first time, it would appear that you really do see the folly and unGodliness of the Roman Catholic Church.

Many Christians throughout their history have preached against the ways of the world as being evil or at least extremely unhealthy. But truly knowledgeable people understand things differently. It’s the churches that are evil, and it took human culture to clean them up.

I hope I’m not misinterpreting you, Frank. If I’m not . . . welcome to the side of humanity.

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Philosophy may in no way interfere with the actual use of language; it can in the end only describe it. For it cannot give it any foundations either. It leaves everything as it is.
Ludwig Wittgenstein

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Posted: 05 May 2006 08:17 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]  
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You’re misinterpreting me. The church is part of the culture. I would say a major part. Do you think my acknowledging that the Church was influenced and influnced the times in which it existed is reason to believe that I am going to leave the faith. It is silliness. It would be just as foolish to say what stopped secularists from killing Christians in Reign of Terror.

As to the rest of your post. Are you saying the only godly people are the ones that deny the existence of God. This makes sense.

I hope I’m not misinterpreting you, Frank. If I’m not . . . welcome to the side of humanity.

I’m a firm believer that all of humanity is made in the image of God and redeemed by Christ’s sacrifice on the cross. I try to treat all men that way. When people start talking about “the side of humanity” they usually end up treating the non humanity side inhumanely. I’ll stick with treating all humanity as images of Christ. I’ll take my chances on that bet.

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Posted: 05 May 2006 10:01 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]  
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Your continued belief and bet will not win you anything.  Mankind was not “created” in my image.  This is a misconception that has been handed down for ages and is absolutely wrong.

Treat others in a humane way, because that’s the way all men can live in peace.  Any other way, like how you describe in your reasoning, will fail.

I find the Catholic Church interesting, but not of my teachings. Again, the false prophets have fooled everyone around them.  I think that now I will start referring to all these “prophets” as false PROFITS, because they have made all these things up for their own material gain and positions of power, and nothing more. 

It is truly a sad thing that you and so many others, Catholics, Christians, Muslims, Jews, etc., have taken the bait and are looking forward to the after life.  I repeat, there is none.  What you do here on earth will remain in the memories of others, in history books, and in the physical creations that you leave when you die.  But all you do, is die.  That’s it.  End of story.  Make it a good one.

Trust me, I know these things.

Later.  god

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Posted: 05 May 2006 10:31 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]  
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So now all of the scientists are Christians. Isn’t amazing how things change when it benefits the argument. I guess the atheist scintists and inventors only invent dialasys machines and the like.

Just for the record, and because it’s a pet peeve of mine, scientists don’t invent things, engineers do.

Both from Wikipedia:

Science (from Latin scientia - knowledge) refers to the system of acquiring knowledge – based on empiricism, experimentation, and methodological naturalism. The term science also refers to the organized body of knowledge humans have gained by such research.”

Engineering is the application of scientific and technical knowledge to solve human problems. Engineers use imagination, judgment and reasoning to apply science, technology, mathematics, and practical experience.  The result is the design, production, and operation of useful objects or processes.”

(emphasis my own in both)

We engineers do all the hard pulling and provide you all with your bombs and water treatment plants, and then doctors and scientists get all the credit.  The result is that we get little kids wanting to grow up to be “scientists” and then get disappointed when they find out it’s all just lab work and end up switching into journalism and law.  ::sigh::

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Posted: 05 May 2006 11:29 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]  
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frankr:

Are you saying the only godly people are the ones that deny the existence of God.

Frank, I’m not sure what you’re referring to. Perhaps my use of the word “ungodly”? Sorry if you’re feeling so squeezed for a response that you would criticize me for using a word whose common meaning is “sinful or wicked.” By the way, although I assume an atheistic stance on all matters that count, I would never say with confidence that some kind of God does not exist.

As for the social forces that needed to prevail upon your Church, apparently you’re openly admitting that your God is either impotent or evil. Perhaps he’s non-existent?

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Philosophy may in no way interfere with the actual use of language; it can in the end only describe it. For it cannot give it any foundations either. It leaves everything as it is.
Ludwig Wittgenstein

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Posted: 05 May 2006 12:15 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]  
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No I am admitting that the church is made up of humans who were given the gift of freedom. A freedom you have also though you freely choose to deny it.

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Posted: 05 May 2006 12:51 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]  
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[quote author=“frankr”]No I am admitting that the church is made up of humans who were given the gift of freedom. A freedom you have also though you freely choose to deny it.

Speaking of the gift of freedom Frank, please feel free in future not to spam any more threads with your pro-catholic stance. This was originally about a book on the big bang.

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Posted: 05 May 2006 01:06 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]  
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Why are you calling me the spammer. I have followed the argument. Why not god? Why not homunculus? Why not mia? None wrote on the big bang. How dare anyone hold a different opinion than you? Here is a deal, I won’t respond to anything you write. I ask you do the same. I do not have time for intellectual cowards.

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Posted: 05 May 2006 01:10 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]  
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[quote author=“frankr”]
I do not have time for intellectual cowards.

Riiiiiight wink. That’s why you’re here everyday on a forum that could not possibly serve your godly mission in any way whatsoever. Very amusing, frank. Can you name any conversions or reversals of deconversion you’ve racked up while being here?


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Posted: 05 May 2006 01:16 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]  
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Mia
As usual you lack a point. How does my conversions have anything to do with calmooney being an intellectual coward?

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Posted: 05 May 2006 01:23 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]  
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Frank, get a grip.  It’s not all about you.  By the way… your score is attrocious.  Mia is right again.

Now back to the thread at hand…

There was more than one Big Bang, and there will be more to come.  It just takes a veerrrrrryyy long time for the cycle to occur, and it is occurring continuously, over and over.  Things seem to turn out different every time, go figure.  This cycle is a real doozy!  As humans, your view of things is quite limited to a miniscule fraction of time.  It is insignificant in the grand scheme of things.  But you should still think about it. 

Later. god

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Posted: 05 May 2006 01:25 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]  
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[quote author=“frankr”]
Mia
As usual you lack a point. How does my conversions have anything to do with calmooney being an intellectual coward?

Well I couldn’t disagree with you more regarding calmooney. It is the theist who lacks intellectual bravery, since he can only consider a given question within the restrictions of his god-of-choice, for fear of offending Him or Her or It. No such limitations exist for calmooney, or for anyone else who has cut themselves free of thought shackles and fantasies.

But what I was specifically indicating was that you show no signs of hesitation in regards to tossing off comments towards those you consider “intellectual cowards”. You just did it again, with me. You’re a glutton for it, frankr, admit it. We already know this, based on your admission that you’re here mainly to argue, just argue. Great goal. I’m sure Big Daddy is so proud.


p.s. god! That was amazingly quick! And I didn’t even pray for you to come to my defense :shock:! Totally impressed . . .


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Posted: 05 May 2006 01:32 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]  
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Frank, the reason I addressed you as a spammer is that I started off a new thread to recommend a book on the big bang and hey presto a couple of posts later you’re asking people to name scientists persecuted by the catholic church besdes Galileo.

I’m not saying that such a debate has no place on this forum, clearly it does, however, I don’t think it’s asking too much for you to just add a note saying that you’d like to have a discussion about the catholic church’s historical treatment of scientists on another more appropriate thread, such as “Science”.

To be honest, I struggle to form a firm opinion of you Frank, you’re clearly more open to reasoned debate than Champ and are fair enough to apologise when you’ve overstepped the mark, which isn’t easy on a forum that can be as confrontational as this one, however, then you come up with utter shite such as calling me an intellectual coward for merely asking you to stay on topic. :x WTF?

I don’t want to stifle debate, silence people with varying views (such as your good self) or have you ignore what I say, if I didn’t want to kick ideas and arguments around I’d simply stop posting here, but even though our religious and political views may be poles apart is it asking too much to at least try and be polite to one another? :x

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