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Big Bang
Posted: 05 May 2006 01:32 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 31 ]  
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Mia,

Hey, it’s what I do.

Later.  god

PS - You should check your mail every once in a while too.

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Posted: 05 May 2006 01:41 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 32 ]  
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[quote author=“god”]
Mia,

Hey, it’s what I do.

Later.  god

PS - You should check your mail every once in a while too.

Oopsie. Will do. I’m bad about that, please forgive me.

*genuflects*


Wait . . . do I even need to genuflect? It was just a knee-jerk reaction, you know how it goes, so please clear this up.


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Posted: 05 May 2006 02:08 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 33 ]  
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[quote author=“calmooney”]Frank, the reason I addressed you as a spammer is that I started off a new thread to recommend a book on the big bang and hey presto a couple of posts later you’re asking people to name scientists persecuted by the catholic church besdes Galileo.

I’m not saying that such a debate has no place on this forum, clearly it does, however, I don’t think it’s asking too much for you to just add a note saying that you’d like to have a discussion about the catholic church’s historical treatment of scientists on another more appropriate thread, such as “Science”.

To be honest, I struggle to form a firm opinion of you Frank, you’re clearly more open to reasoned debate than Champ and are fair enough to apologise when you’ve overstepped the mark, which isn’t easy on a forum that can be as confrontational as this one, however, then you come up with utter shite such as calling me an intellectual coward for merely asking you to stay on topic. :x WTF?

I don’t want to stifle debate, silence people with varying views (such as your good self) or have you ignore what I say, if I didn’t want to kick ideas and arguments around I’d simply stop posting here, but even though our religious and political views may be poles apart is it asking too much to at least try and be polite to one another? :x

I apologize again calmooney. I need sleep. I am a bit tired. It seemed to me that you were unfairly pointing to me for the spam. i wiil get sleep. i was overly harsh. For the record I do try to stay with the thread topic. I am not like Treblinka or god who are spammers in the true sense. They add nothing to the debate.

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Posted: 05 May 2006 03:00 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 34 ]  
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frankr,

i think the god character was on target when god said that the big bang thing is part of a never ending process of big bangs, cyclical, kinda like an ebb and flow of cosmic tides.  i find that fascinating, and entirely relevant to the discussion, as opposed to talk about the catholic church and cowards (good to put them in the same thread, though).

what do others think?  why should there only be one big bang?  what was there before the big bang?  the other side of another big bang of course.  think of it like a cosmic oscillation.  endless, timeless, going on for what would seem, to us humans, as an eternity.

i think we need to think beyond what we see today with our limited scope of time and space, into something that would make more sense… that there, universally, is no beginning or end.  how about that?

i tend to agree with you about treblinka.  what a duck.  rolleyes

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Posted: 05 May 2006 04:40 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 35 ]  
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This is a topic that CanZen addressed several times in ways that I’d never heard before. He actually makes sense out of mysteries such as infinity. He’s not a glutton for punishment however, and has obviously moved on to bigger and better things. Take a peek at some of his truly moving essay entries on this forum over the past 18 months or so.

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Philosophy may in no way interfere with the actual use of language; it can in the end only describe it. For it cannot give it any foundations either. It leaves everything as it is.
Ludwig Wittgenstein

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Posted: 05 May 2006 05:04 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 36 ]  
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Yeah, I think I agree with god on that one, There as got to have been more than one big bang. Hell, they could be going on all over the place as we speak, but it’s just too far to see.
Anyway since God is with us on this post, I wanted to ask IT when IT first became aware of IT’S own existence?

What was the subject of Caloomney’s post again????

Oh yeah, the BIG BANG. I wonder if the universe looks the same on the other side of the point of origin of the Big Bang.

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Posted: 05 May 2006 08:46 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 37 ]  
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To answer, I must first refer you back to the Bang Oscillaton Theory.  I do not matter.  I have no matter.  I am, have been, and always will be, but it does not matter.  I am but a speck in a vast and endless cosmic continuum.  I am here, and you are here, and we really don’t matter in the universal sense.  What matters is that you are here and you may as well make the best of it while you exist.  I have no awareness, in the sense that you understand in this existence.  I just am.  I was. I will be. That is all.  It doesn’t matter.  It’s really not about me, it’s about you.

Mankind matters to mankind.  I have only made my existence known here to let all know that… I don’t matter.  You do.  Those around you do.  Take care of yourselves, because god has no bearing on your existence, no responsibility for your existence, and no specific relationship to your existence.  I’m just here, and it doesn’t matter, although I hope I’ve made a difference by explaining some of this.  I guess that creates a relationship situation now, but it doesn’t matter.

As to your question about “the other side”... there is no other side,  and nothing is the same anywhere at any particular moment.  It is all unique and there is only one universe.  It encompasses all, with no beginning, and no end.  It is.

So there you have it. 

Later.  god

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Posted: 05 May 2006 09:05 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 38 ]  
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-

I think god just reduced the essentials down to something that could be scribbled into the palm of anyone’s hand. It makes a lot more sense than that concrete block-sized monstrosity that’s been making the rounds for centuries.


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Posted: 06 May 2006 01:43 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 39 ]  
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homunculus

H.S., I didn’t know referring to a church as a club would get under your skin. Thanks for the tipoff. It’s now part of my normal vocabulary

I guess that tells me everything I need to know about your humanity. So, much for tolerance and a cordial exchange in this site. You can think of the Church any way you’d like , I know you think it is ridiculous, most don’t. You all talk about how much Christianity puts the U.S in peril but have you ever thought for one moment how sorry the country would be if everbody treated people the way you all (with a few exceptions) do in here.

Mia

Well I couldn’t disagree with you more regarding calmooney. It is the theist who lacks intellectual bravery

Bravery? Does it take intellectual bravery to argue that 1+1=2? Because that is the only thing you can believe in, black and white, I’m sure that a large part of this group would have scoffed at every theory that came along that has now been proved true. And Christianity will one day be proved true as well and everyone on this board will know. Bravery is trying to help people that don’t think they need to be helped and hate you for it.  John 20:29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

Riiiiiight . That’s why you’re here everyday on a forum that could not possibly serve your godly mission in any way whatsoever

.

If you were once a Christian you would know that is a false statement. Frankr is doing the best he can, the best way he knows and that is to hopefully help open some eyes. Whether or not he is suddessful does not matter, He’s doing what he can. Luke 11:23 “He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me, scatters” Frankr is just trying to help gather. God Bless him

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Posted: 06 May 2006 10:06 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 40 ]  
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I read an excellent book on the topic a few summers ago called   Before the Big Bang by Ernest Sternglass.

He describes a theory of his, which grew out of Lemaitre’s idea of a primeval atom that gave rise to all matter in the universe.  In Sternglass’s theory, he brings back the idea of ether which (I believe) Einstein killed, claims that the universe began as a big sort of standing, circular vortex (think smoke ring) in the ether, which contained all the energy of the present universe in its motion.

He talks about this single vortex, one super-energetic photon, splitting into the first ultra-massive electron/positron pair, which continued to split until they reached some critical mass and began to rapidly expand and produce space ahead of itself (I’m really not describing this well, because I read it a few years ago) - what we call the Big Bang (hence the name: Before the Big Bang).  He goes on to describe the evolution of the universe in terms of this continual splitting and re-splitting of these highly energetic photons, electrons, and positrons.

The trick is that he makes this model that predicts all sorts of observed values (mass of a proton, klepton, neutron, etc, diamter of the universe, level of background radiation, average density of galaxies, ratio of dark matter, intensity of gamma-ray bursts, and more) starting with only four constants:  the speed of light, the gravitational constant, the Planck constant, and the mass of an electron.  It’s pretty damned elegant, and mostly unknown as a theory.

The thing is, I didn’t take the time to follow all the math he put out to describe his model, so I don’t know if all of the math is good.  Assuming it is, though (reasonable to expect considering he published it), it’s a pretty significant theory.  It actually predicts all of those observed values more accurately than any other theory, with fewer assumptions. 

He also talks a little bit about his relationship with Einstein and the history of quantum mechanics.  He talks about what it’s like to not be a well-paid, well-recognized cosmologist and just to work on it because he’s passionate about it.  The theory the book describes is something he sort of came up with in his time off, working all his life on it.

I gave the book to a thermodynamics prof of mine once and asked him whether the math was all good - he said he loved it and the math looked okay.  Anyway, I recommend the book.

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Posted: 06 May 2006 07:03 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 41 ]  
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Thank you God, for such a quick reply. That is the first I ever got.
A quick reply, that is. I never got a quick reply, before.

I follow you until you say :“I have no awareness”. Then who the fuck is it that fucking scared the pants of me, one day, when I was taking a trip in the garden of god, you know what I mean, wink! All was cool, all was above boards, all was truly divine and good , good for everyone,...and BANG !! and I am like:” What the fuck?”
And there comes this voice:” DON’T GO THERE !!!”  And I am thinking, what the hell is that all about for quite a while and then a whisper…” you are not ready yet”...

A while later, I was again wandering in the garden of god, but this time, I was flying so fast, that I could not stop from going beyond where I had been when the Bang episode happened. And in all that beauty, I found myself capable of adding my own creativity to it. But is suddenly appeared to me that these new worlds I was creating in my mind, were becoming bleaker, where happiness existed, hopelessness now was the rule; and I was getting terrified, and my mind kept going into a vortex of despair and destruction.    And then I remembered the bang and the voice that had warned me. At that instant I was stone cold sober.

That Bang and warning are not from my mind. My mind was so fucking busy having fun, at that time, and it was all good; that is the strange thing, there was no need of warning, unless someone cared.

So God, if you have no awareness, who the hell is it that put the words “Don’t go there….you are not ready” in my mind, and who is it that woke me from my nightmare?

” I do not matter”. I tend to agree with you on that, although, you must admit you must want to shout a warning sometimes, or whisper a bit of love, a bit of comfort, is this not why you are here?
But otherwise, yeah, you must not matter, unless you want to talk.

So you hope you have made a difference. Does that mean you like us, somehow? Now, God, help me here. “God is Love” is that true? I thought I’d get it straight from the horse’s mouth.

Now, about the “other side” I was just refering to the focus of big bang as being at the periphery of the sphere that contains our perception of the universe. It is just a silly question, it doesn’t matter in the end.

Anyway, just thought that I would keep things straight between us.

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Posted: 06 May 2006 07:56 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 42 ]  
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Here’s a few quick answers for you 3-D.

With regard to awareness… it may be hard to accept, but my awareness is more the essence of my existence and just being.  I do not actively participate in mankind’s endeavors, normally.  But having the sense of humor (similar to awareness) that I have, and desiring to drop some hints at this juncture in mankind’s evolution, I have decided to sort of jump in here on Sam’s forum because it seems a worthy place to reinforce some real positive vibes that are happening.  Notice I didn’t say that I was aware of them.  I just know they are there.  And I like you too 3-D.
What was that Bang and little voice?
Have you heard the song, “I Scare Myself” by Dan Hicks… and his Hot Licks?  That voice was none other than a neurological event, in your mind, aware or not, that resulted from the interaction of your pleasures, your memories, your learned responses, and pure biochemical brain stuff going on.  External influences could include temperature, humidity, sound reception, as well as I/O from all senses.  It came from within… not without, although you may have done without.

The god is love question is interesting.
I have seen posts with the signature, “be love” a few times here.  That really is the point.  Love is, and anyone can be love.  I am love, but I am nothing.  Make sense?  Maybe not yet.

I understand the “other side” question.  It’s not a silly question, and I’m sure you understand my answer relative to no beginning and no end.  It doesn’t matter, maybe because there is no end.

I think we’ve made a lot of progress here. 

Later.  god

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Posted: 15 May 2006 04:59 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 43 ]  
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3-D,

A little practical advice.  Having spent quite a bit of time communing with the gods in a similar fashion (I was a keeper of the keys for a while) I’ve found that a good way to prevent that experience you describe - where all the good drains out of your environment and leaves you either dry or terrified - is to remind yourself of the Buddhist model of the subconscious as a sort of fertile soil which sprouts what you plant it with.

In the garden of the gods these seeds can grow very quickly, so when the dark clouds of one of these storms begins to whip around you realize that it is the manifestion of both the quality of the soil (which you won’t be able to change during the period of your visit), but also of the seeds you are planting during the storm itself.  Resistance is the hardest seed not to sow in such a case, but it is the most potent.  The trick, if you can manage, is to find a way to relax into the terror itself, to stop railing against the clouds but instead accept them as unfortunate and stoop to work and plant something new.  How do you plant new seeds when you so desparately “want” to plant the resistance and fear?  Focus on the small around you.  If you’re a visual person, notice the lazy curve of a curtain.  Spend a moment, perhaps, being impressed but just how damned miserable you actually are and give yourself a pat on the back for producing such a perfectly terrible storm.  If you’re with a friend, tell them you’re okay and force a laugh even if you’re not.  Heck, plant a couple forced laughter seeds and see if that doesn’t grow into a twisting kudzu of helpless laughing fits.  Try planting some Chopin in the CD player and see what that sprouts into.  Plant a moment of startled appreciation of stunning beauty (believe me, it’s everywhere in that garden - and you can see it even when you’re fundamentally miserable).  Plant the image of yourself as more ephemeral than you might have thought before, less bounded by the suffering bag of flesh who’s terrified of the clouds.  Plant a concept of yourself as having more than one point of view - being more a cast than an actor, and just let one play the tragic role - use your new status as guest of the gods to look back and enjoy the show.  Plant the idea that maybe, just maybe, you should stop shying away from whatever it is you think will harm you most and instead look into its center for whatever you can find there.  The beatiful thing is, on those garden paths you’ll find that imagining can make something real - when visiting the gods you gain their powers.  Creating is difficult to gain control of at first, but not impossible.

Hmm, I’m being too verbose.  The rule of thumb to remember is:  don’e waste any time killing the plants you don’t like; they’ll die on their own.  Let me say that again:  don’t waste any time killing the plants you don’t like; they’ll die on their own; instead just pick out the seeds you like and plant them between the thorny vines.  Things grow and die very fast in the garden of the gods.

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Posted: 16 May 2006 04:21 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 44 ]  
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[quote author=“Humble Servant”]homunculus

H.S., I didn’t know referring to a church as a club would get under your skin. Thanks for the tipoff. It’s now part of my normal vocabulary

I guess that tells me everything I need to know about your humanity. So, much for tolerance and a cordial exchange in this site. You can think of the Church any way you’d like , I know you think it is ridiculous, most don’t. You all talk about how much Christianity puts the U.S in peril but have you ever thought for one moment how sorry the country would be if everbody treated people the way you all (with a few exceptions) do in here.

homu is incorrect.  The catholic church is not a club.  It is an association.
The North American Man-Boy Love Association, to be precise.

HS—do you really expect us all here to be tolerant of a bunch of pedophiles?  No way…

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Posted: 18 May 2006 07:32 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 45 ]  
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mudfoot

homu is incorrect. The catholic church is not a club. It is an association.
The North American Man-Boy Love Association, to be precise

.


The church is the people not the priests, but they do have a lot of problems.

HS—do you really expect us all here to be tolerant of a bunch of pedophiles? No way…

No one respects pedophiles. You don’t think that there might be an atheist pedophile or two?

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