Sam Harris

mormovies - 17 September 2012 07:07 PM

I disagree with your implying that there’s any messiah complex here.  Toombaru tells it like it is, and he/she always seems to provide some great insight.

>> Yeah, sure.  Trying to be scientific while talking in poetic,  mystical, massively long-winded parables. Okay, I wonder if you said that with a straight face.  We already have one Deepak.  And this isn’t an insult to anybody here, but nobody here on any board, anywhere for that matter ‘tells it like it is.’  That’s the job of messiahs.  Can’t we just be humble and exchange ideas?  Nobody here has THE answer.

Of course no one has the answer.
The question: “Do I have free will or not?” is no different than asking: “What color was Cinderells’s hair?” or Exactly how how high did Jack’s beanstalk grow?”
None of the above have an existential reality and to ask questions about them is akin to lunacy.

Of course no one has the answer.
The question: “Do I have free will or not?” is no different than asking: “What color was Cinderells’s hair?” or Exactly how how high did Jack’s beanstalk grow?”
None of the above have an existential reality and to ask questions about them is akin to lunacy.

>> This is where we absolutely disagree.  We need to discuss this and it’s not lunacy in the least!  Some of the greatest scientists are studying this.  To say it’s lunacy IS akin to saying you know the answer.  We can gain better understanding of ‘free will’ and how the brain functions but it will take time and we may never know everything about it.

mormovies - 17 September 2012 08:02 PM

Of course no one has the answer.
The question: “Do I have free will or not?” is no different than asking: “What color was Cinderells’s hair?” or Exactly how how high did Jack’s beanstalk grow?”
None of the above have an existential reality and to ask questions about them is akin to lunacy.

>> This is where we absolutely disagree.  We need to discuss this and it’s not lunacy in the least!  Some of the greatest scientists are studying this.  To say it’s lunacy IS akin to saying you know the answer.  We can gain better understanding of ‘free will’ and how the brain functions but it will take time and we may never know everything about it.

Of course you disagree.
That is what your brain is programmed to do.
This is a question the the greatest thinkers can never answer.
It’s a simple question.
Don’t you think that someone, somewhere would have it pinned down by now?
I am not saying that I know the answer.
I am saying that the question is meaningless.
There is no I and therefore the question of it having, or not having, free will is moot.
The human brain is far too complex for the human brain to understand.
Get back to me in ten years and let me know how close the scientists are to understanding this.

Since you are a self-deluded god and not programmed like us mere mortals, I’ll leave you to yourself so can wallow in your own second-rate poetry.

mormovies - 17 September 2012 09:30 PM

Since you are a self-deluded god and not programmed like us mere mortals, I’ll leave you to yourself so can wallow in your own second-rate poetry.

You forgot.
There is no self here to leave me with.
:-0

Then you’ll be ultra-lonely here.  Have a nice eternity!

mormovies - 17 September 2012 10:10 PM

Then you’ll be ultra-lonely here.  Have a nice eternity!

Only selfs get lonely.

toombaru - 13 September 2012 01:59 PM

Those who claim that they can’t make up their mind concerning the nature of free will are merely using the exercise as an intravenous drip to keep the illusion alive for a while longer.

You do realize that if there is no freewill then you are lashing out against people that are only doing what the universe already programmed them to do?  And your lashing out is programmed also?  Are you actually accusing someone of using a discussion as some kind of exercise?  There is no one out there to accuse.  And your platform is on level grounds with theirs.

bittramp - 17 September 2012 10:48 PM

toombaru - 13 September 2012 01:59 PM

Those who claim that they can’t make up their mind concerning the nature of free will are merely using the exercise as an intravenous drip to keep the illusion alive for a while longer.

You do realize that if there is no freewill then you are lashing out against people that are only doing what the universe already programmed them to do?  And your lashing out is programmed also?  Are you actually accusing someone of using a discussion as some kind of exercise?  There is no one out there to accuse.  And your platform is on level grounds with theirs.

Of course.
Its a consensus delusion.
Sam doesn’t believe in free will.
Why do you suppose he wrote the book?
Every organism’s brain is reacting to its own moment to moment perceptual input.
You see it is lashing out.
Here it is seen as awareness playing in its own thought stream.

Total nonsense, wannabe zenmaster!  You are nothing but a programmed non-entity traveling the cyber cosmos!

mormovies - 18 September 2012 09:08 AM

Total nonsense. You are nothing but a programmed non-entity traveling the cyber cosmos!

Beautifully said.
Thummin down the Synaptic Inner State

toombaru - 17 September 2012 11:29 PM

Of course.
Its a consensus delusion.
Sam doesn’t believe in free will.
Why do you suppose he wrote the book?
Every organism’s brain is reacting to its own moment to moment perceptual input.
You see it is lashing out.
Here it is seen as awareness playing in its own thought stream.

Awareness at play?  When clouds float by do you call it water molecules at play?

What I am saying is that claiming someone’s indecisiveness is actually something feigned for the purpose of denying an uncomfortable truth certainly sounds condescending.  And certainly not very playful.

bittramp - 18 September 2012 12:42 PM

toombaru - 17 September 2012 11:29 PM

Of course.
Its a consensus delusion.
Sam doesn’t believe in free will.
Why do you suppose he wrote the book?
Every organism’s brain is reacting to its own moment to moment perceptual input.
You see it is lashing out.
Here it is seen as awareness playing in its own thought stream.

Awareness at play?  When clouds float by do you call it water molecules at play?

What I am saying is that claiming someone’s indecisiveness is actually something feigned for the purpose of denying an uncomfortable truth certainly sounds condescending.  And certainly not very playful.

I am not claiming anyone is indecisive.
Being decisive would imply that free will exists.
Here this discourse is experienced as play.
Since the self is seen as illusory, it must be awareness playing.
For no particular reason it might add.

clfst17 - 17 September 2012 06:21 PM

I disagree with your implying that there’s any messiah complex here.  Toombaru tells it like it is, and he/she always seems to provide some great insight.

I know, man.  It’s like, he just, like, he just…  tells it like it IS, man!  I mean, once; I was all…. you know… and then he was all, like…  Wasssup!.... and then, you know, I just, like, I just totally, like….

you know?