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Treblinka, the fraud, the holocaust denier
Posted: 22 May 2006 12:26 PM   [ Ignore ]  
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There are those who trivialize the nazi extermination of over 6 million Jews.  There are those who deny this event ever happened.  I have now long suspected that a couple of posters here are of this ilk.  Now I have confirmed my suspicions to my satisfaction.  I am not Jewish, but as a humanist, I bristle at the disregard for human rights in whatever format it might be found.

I do have Treblinka's anti-semitic garbage quoted in this post, but first let me expose the fallaciousness of his thinking with some cursory groundwork.  The following are some rather recent events regarding the putrid stench of holocaust denial:

Truth triumphed in a 2000 London courtroom when Deborah Lipstadt, Emory University's internationally distinguished scholar of the Holocaust, exposed a Holocaust denier who deliberately manipulated historical evidence in order to refute that the Holocaust happened, and to advance his anti-Semitic and white supremacist ideology.

Lipstadt originally made reference to this historical misrepresentation in her book, "Denying the Holocaust: The Growing Assault on Truth and Memory" (Free Press, 1993). In response, Holocaust denier David Irving sued Dr. Lipstadt and her British publisher, Penguin Books, for libel in a trial that made headlines around the world. England's libel laws, unlike American laws, place an onerous burden of proof on the defendant-in this case, Dr. Lipstadt.  source:  http://www.hdot.org/ieindex.html

"The real purpose of holocaust revisionism is to make
National Socialism an acceptable political alternative again."

Dishonest techniques employed for holocaust denial found at link:
source:  http://www.nizkor.org/features/techniques-of-denial/

"One of the most notable anti-Semitic propaganda movements to develop over the past two decades has been the organized effort to deny or minimize the established history of Nazi genocide against the Jews."  source: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/denial.html

Holocaust denial may seem, on first sight, to be preposterous. How, you may ask, can anyone deny the most extensively documented period in world history? An equally fascinating question, and far more significant in terms of its implications is WHY would anyone want to deny the Holocaust? What motivations could lie behind such a stance? What is to be gained through denial?

The second question may have several different answers, all of which reveal more about the deniers than about the Holocaust or any of the Holocaust documents.  source: http://www.mtsu.edu/~baustin/denial.htm

Link to the National Socialist White People's Party Agenda as published openly on Usenet in 1995:

—We believe that the Aryan race is our nation, rather than any particular piece of geography or any specific government…

—We believe White Americans have far more interest in common with White Germans, Britons, Australians, or any other Aryan people than with non-Whites who by some accident of history or quirk of government policy happen to hold U.S. Citizenship.

—We believe that the Aryan race is under attack worldwide, and that there exists a very real possibility that White people may vanish from the face of the earth altogether if something is not done to halt, and then to roll back, the advancing tide of liberalism and racial admixture which liberal democracy has brought about.

source: http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/orgs/american/national-socialist-white-peoples-party/nswpp-0895.html

I would like to expose Treblinka, an EOF frequent poster, who burped up the following anti-semitic garbage:

link to his/her EOF anti-semitic post:
http://www.samharris.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=24216#24216

What does a tattoo prove ? It proves people were given tattoos in order to keep track of them.  Would it really make sense to give a person a haircut, shower, and new uniform and shoes along with a tattoo if the only thing you planned to do was gas them ?

Wake up !

auschwitz was a work camp. Ever hear of Buma rubber ?  Well, the Buma rubber plant , at auschwitz, which made rubber for the rman Army is still around.  That is right.

Most folks sent to auschwitz worked if they were in good enough health.  But even if you got sick, like Elie wiesel, who got a foot infection, you were very well cared for at the auschwitz hospital.

Keep in mind, auschwitz had a hospital, 12 kitchens, a chapel, two orchestras, ( male and female ) a broethel, library, post office.
and a swimming pool.  the swimming pool ( not on the tour) was for good behavior and also for those who needed the exercise for health reasons.  there were also 3 large gas chambers there, and they are still there,( not on the tour ! ) full of blue staining on the inside walls due to the use of Zyklon-B , but the only victims were clothing and lice.  This was done to prevent the spread of lice , which carried the deadly typhus.

Typhus is carried by head lice, so all immates were given a head shaving, and shower before entering the camps.  every single of the 300 concentration camps had gas chambers where lice and clothing were deloused.

They were killed with the bug pesticide Zyklon-B.  If hitler were really out to kill the Jews, which he was not, there are hundreds of agents far more deadly than a bug pesticide.

He could have gassed people with gasoline engines.  But he never sought to kill the Jews, He only sought to resettle them out of Germany.  American also put Japanese into concentration camps. big deal.  It was the Jews who began the war on Germany in 1934, by starting a worldwide boycott of German goods.  hitler responded by trying to get the Jews out of Germany.

The rest is russian supplied wartime propaganda, which is NOW being exposed as a scam, since the internet.  That is why laws are being passed to lock up folks who want to research the holohoax.

what are these folks so afraid of?  the Truth !

the Red Cross already told us just 282,000 folks in total died in concentration camps. Are they lying ?  282,000 = Catholics, protestants, orthodox, pagans and Jews.  the holohoax is just a smokescreen to divert attention from the genocide taking place in Palestine, and also to get money from others. 

Read " Lectures on the Holocaust ", by Germar Rudolf and your eyes will be opened.  Do a search on ebay and you can find it.

Take your misinformation and shove it up your ass.

Noggin

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Posted: 23 May 2006 12:17 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]  
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I gather that you believe the national holocaust museum in Washington DC is a total hoax, then.  Have you been through it?  I have.

The 6 million unaccounted for relatives just disappeared.  I’d like to sit you down in front of the countless people who had parents and grandparents, cousins, brothers, aunts and uncles just vanish.  I’d like to see you explain to these people how their family members just chose to go live somewhere else, Treblinka.  How do you fail to follow that?

These human beings lived, breathed, and then, after boarding trains that led them to the “camps”, were never seen or heard from again.

Don’t you think just one of them would have come back to talk to their kin?  Write a letter perhaps?  Or in today’s day… sent an email?

Their silence is deafening.

Noggin

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Posted: 23 May 2006 04:36 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]  
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[quote author=“Noggin”]
The 6 million unaccounted for relatives just disappeared.  I’d like to sit you down in front of the countless people who had parents and grandparents, cousins, brothers, aunts and uncles just vanish.  I’d like to see you explain to these people how their family members just chose to go live somewhere else, Treblinka.  How do you fail to follow that?

Treblinka wrote:

many millions of people had relatives killed in world war 2.
That is not the issue, although you might want it to be.

How is that not the issue?  Or do you not want it to be the issue?  It is completely the issue.  There are 6 million unaccounted for missing jews who never bothered to phone home, write a letter, or show up at a grandchild’s birthday.  Do you really believe that they all just emmigrated to Russia and disappeared?

Your thinking is fallacious.  Nobody disputes that WWII occurred nor that at least 15 million people died (15m is a conservative estimate, source: http://hnn.us/articles/1381.html).  Or are you saying that… nevermind.  You can’t be saying that.  But you seem to be.  You seem to be saying that because there are missing WWII soldiers (presumed dead, but sill unaccounted for… and that means they too do not contact their kin), that some how negates that 6,000,000 jews died in holocaust circumstance.

I don’t recall a zionistic, racially motivated campaign designed to trivialize these soldiers’ deaths.

Treblinka wrote:
the issue is did hitler have a plan to gas 6,000,00 Jews and did he pull it off.
the answer is no on both counts. There is zero evidence to prove he did.

Hardly.  In your fantasy land it did not happen.  I provided you the links that say otherwise. 

Here is more proof:

Slip-ups occurred in written correspondence regarding the gas chambers themselves, some of which, fortunately, escaped destruction and were found after the war. A memo written to SS man Karl Bischoff on November 27, 1942 describes the gas chamber in Krema II not with the usual mundane name of “Leichenkeller,” but rather as the “Sonderkeller” “special cellar.”

And two months later, on January 29, 1943, Bischoff wrote a memo to Kammler, referring to that same chamber as the “Vergasungskeller.” (See Gutman, Anatomy of the Auschwitz Death Camp, 1994, pp. 223, 227.) “Vergasungskeller” means exactly what it sounds like: “gassing cellar,” an underground gas chamber.

The Nazi’s did it with Zyklon-b, they did it with experimental gassing vans, they hung prisoners to death, shot them in the head point blank execution style, marched them into trenches head high and machine gunned them down.  6,000,000 jews are absent.  They never call, write or show up in their posterity’s lives… ever.  They just vanished.

Treblinka wrote:
Please explain why elie wiesel never talked about gas chambers in his book in 1956. His silence is overpowering. the fact is it means at that point no gas chambers existed.

Is that what it really means?  Off the top of my head… maybe the experience of having his sister and mother gassed and exterminated via cremation was and is so gruesome that he chooses not to talk about it.  He did not mention gas chambers.  That does not mean gas chambers were not employed. 

You trot out holocaust survivor Elie Wiesel as an example.  Why don’t you ask him (he is still alive) why his mother and sister do not call anymore since their stay at Auschwitz?

In 1944, Wiesel and his family were transported to Auschwitz concentration camp in Poland during World War II. There, Elie’s mother and youngest sister, Tzipora, died in the gas chambers.  source:  http://www.neco.org/awards/recipients/e.wiesel.html

Treblinka wrote:
Not one world leader ever mentioned gas chambers after the war, until 1978.

Noggin responds with this quote from Nizkor website:

As for the testimony of the survivors, which the “revisionists” claim is the only evidence, there are indeed numerous testimonies to gassings and other forms of atrocities, from Jewish inmates who survived the camps, and also from other inmates like POWs. Many of the prisoners that testified about the gassing are not Jewish, of course. Look for instance at the testimony of Polish officer Zenon Rozansky about the first homicidal gassing in Auschwitz, in which 850 Russian POWs were gassed to death, in Reitlinger, The Final Solution, p. 154:

“Those who were propped against the door leant with a curious stiffness and then fell right at our feet, striking their faces hard against the concrete floor. Corpses! Corpses standing bolt upright and filling the entire corridor of the bunker, till they were packed so tight that it was impossible for more to fall.”

Which of the “revisionists” will deny this? Which of them was there? Which of them has the authority to tell Rozansky what he did or did not see?

The statement that “no ‘survivor’ claims to have actually witnessed any gassing” is clearly false; this was changed to “few survivors” in later versions, which is close to the truth.
source:  http://www.nizkor.org/features/qar/qar01.html

Treblinka wrote:
The whole story is a invention with roots from 1915.  I wallow not for make believe gas chamber victims.

In your unfathomable opinion, the holocaust “is an invention”.  I have shown you where you are misinformed and subscribing to conspiracy theory.

I have figured you out, I think.  I have determined that you, Treblinka, are a Troll.  I have limited amount of time to spend arguing about up in the night conspiracy theory.  I doubt that I will continue wasting it debating you.

Good luck with your proselyting.

Noggin

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Posted: 25 May 2006 02:09 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]  
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[quote author=“treblinka”]No wood = no holocaust at Treblinka, Chelmno, Sobibor.
 
No gas chamber = no Auschwitz holocaust.


Stop with the rebuilt Auschwitz morgue was a gas chamber BS. 

What moron would fill a lower level room with explosive gas when lit furnances are upstairs.

No quicker way to blow up a building.

Germans far to smart for that .

Your argument is under water.

Did it ever occur to you that their were German soldiers trained to handle Zyklon-B?
Probably not, because you are absolutely delusional.

Did it ever occur to you that the gassing chambers, and the many crematoria buildings were separate structures?
Probably not, because you are absolutely delusional.

Did it ever occur to you that one doesn’t need wood to keep a fire?
All you need is something combustable. There are many, many things besides wood that could’ve been used.

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Posted: 25 May 2006 07:14 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]  
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[quote author=“treblinka”]
What moron would fill a lower level room with explosive gas when lit furnances are upstairs.

No quicker way to blow up a building.

Germans far to smart for that .

Chew on this jagged little pill:

The minimal concentration [of zyklon-b] causing explosion is 56,000 parts per million. A concentration of 300 parts per million kills humans within a few minutes. As a reference, one can look at “The Merck Index” and the “CRC Handbook of Chemistry and Physics,” or consult any manual dealing with toxicity and flammability of chemicals. There would have been no real danger of explosion even if there were a bonfire burning in the gas chamber while the execution was taking place.

In fact, the Nazis’ own product literature on Zyklon-B, Nuremberg document NI-9912, points this out:

Danger of explosion: 75 grams of HCN in 1 cubic meter of air. Normal application approx. 8-10 grams per cubic meter, therefore not explosive

Noggin

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Posted: 26 May 2006 06:12 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]  
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Having been to Auschwitz and actually seen the ovens, I can say that they were not there to bake bread or pizza.  I cannot remember but I believe they were coal fired.  This makes sense even without me doing some research.  Poland is coal rich!  It also makes for a very hot fire.  As to your silly water table argument, please.  Many of these camps were huge places that certainly wouldn’t have have a contiguous water table at a given depth over the entire acreage.  Are all the photos and films of the people being shot and dumped into pits only to be covered with lye a Hollywood fabrication?  Is Mein Kampf and its expressed hatred for the Jews as well as many other speeches that Hitler gave where he expressed the same hatred to be simply discounted?  He thought them a plague on society, a vermin.  And yet you would have us believe that he was just trying to have them removed.  When you have what you believe to be a cancer on society, you don’t move it to another part of the body.  You try to exterminate it,  which is what he did.  Unless you think Albert Speer was just making this stuff up?  If he was just trying to relocate them, why did he they need to go to camps in the first place?  Why not just ship them to Eastern Europe and say, “Good luck?”

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Posted: 26 May 2006 10:45 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]  
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It’s quite clear that you’re wrong on this issue.

Stop sticking up for fucking Nazis.

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Posted: 26 May 2006 11:19 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]  
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You can post your disgust with treblinka in a ban treblinka topic under Forum Requests.

nazis are bad people (general world consensus)
treblinka is a nazi (general agreement in this forum)
therefore treblinka is bad people. (obvious conclusion)

bad treblinka… please go away.  no one likes you here.  you’re not wanted, and you certainly haven’t changed anyone’s mind regarding the reality of the holocaust.  you have failed.  pack up your nazi ass and go home… oh… nazi germany doesn’t exist anymore… try palestine… or iran.

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Posted: 27 May 2006 04:41 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]  
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So once again it’s the powerful Jews out to overthrow the world.  Treb, your mind is made up and that is sad.  You need so desperately to have a boogey man for all the troubles in the world and the Jews are a convenient target.  Were there Jewish communists?  Sure.  But wait, there were also Jewish capitalists?  Uh oh, now how do I make them all guilty of trying to harm the pure Aryan race?  So on the one hand, they wanted to make the state control everything and on the other, they wanted to charge us interest and make money so they could get rich!  You, just like Hitler the Benign, are trying to have it both ways.  First you say they couldn’t have burned all the bodies because there were no orders for wood and then when I point out that the cremetoriums were coal fired, you say, well duh!  Then you say Hitler just came up with his plan to relocate the Jews after they “declared war,” (whatever that means) on Germany in ‘34, yet he stated his outright disgust and hatred for the Jews as well as his belief that had 15,000 Jews been gassed during WWI, he believed it would have saved many hundreds of thousands of his fellow Germans.  All the documented evidence that exists in museums, libraries, and various government archives, as well as the recognition of the German government today that the Holocaust was a real event is a very hard burden for you to bear for some reason.  You hide behind seeking “the truth,” as your only motivation, but that is a delusion that no one else here at this forum, or serious world historian would allow themselves to drown in, given all the evidence of a massive genocide perpetrated by the Nazis against the Jews of Europe.  But what else would we expect from one who regularly chucks all froms of reason, rationality, and evidence, so as to make his narrow world view the “one true,” view?  Lastly, if Jesus had been born in early 20th century Germany, Hitler surely would have wanted him exterminated too!  After all, as a Jew, he had “declared war,” on the master race!

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Posted: 27 May 2006 10:04 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]  
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Treblinka claims:

Hitler knew the Jews in Russia, who were communists, were behind the Russian Revolution in 1917-1918.

This assertion of yours is a patently false recounting of history, see:

Causes Of The 1917 Revolution,  Economic inflation causes severe hardship

Prices rose high because all kinds of goods and food became scarce during the war. In general, the price rose by 500700 per cent between 1914 and 1917. The scarcity of food and all kinds of goods were due to the following reasons: (i ) Russia was cut off from outside aid by the blockade of the Central Powers; (ii) the transport system was inadequate; (iii) the devastation of the wheat-growing Ukraine early in the war; (iv) the factories had to manufacture military goods to meet the needs of the unnaturally large army. (Because Russia was industrially backward, she found it necessary to recruit a large army to fight against Germany so that her superiority in numbers could compensate her deficiency in equipment. By 1917 about fifteen million were recruited 37% of the male population of working age. This led to labour shortage and less production in factories.) Because of the exorbitant prices of bread, many Russian people were hungry. Hunger led to waves of strikes of workers who cried out not only economic demands but also political demands: “Down with the Czar”.

The Czar was hated by all his people in 1917. His fall from power was inevitable.

Nicholas II learnt little from the 1905 Revolution. He blindly adhered to autocracy as soon as the Revolution was over. From 1905 to 1914, he had adopted agrarian reforms and factory reforms, but they were too piecemeal in nature and so failed to remove the discontent of the peasants and the workers. When the First World War broke out, their discontent exploded in the form of a revolution. Then Czardom collapsed.
source:http://www.thecorner.org/hist/russia/revo1917.htm

You are playin fast and loose with historicals.  And betting no one here will check up on your wild hair assertions.

Treblinka writes:

the FACT is Auschwitz is built on a swamp, and the water table was between 6 inches and 2 feet.

Yet you cannot deny that there were several chambers, even an underground morgue constructed.  If they were able to effectively build an underground morgue, they must have figured out how to use this technology elsewhere.  Water tables are never monolithic.  In many places your cherry picked assertion of a 2 foot water table might work, and in many places it will not. 

Treblinka writes:
there is clearly no record of any Hitler order to kill one Jew.

There is plenty of cryptic speak of final solution to the jewish problem followed by thousands of machine gun executions that were expensive and tedious to clean up.  Carbon monoxide gassings cannot be denied as they were tested out as a means to find an easier way to exterminate the jews.  This gave way to the “thoughtful” evolution to easier methods of disposal… and ends up at the gas chambers experimented first at death camps like Treblinka, see:

Mobile gassing vans, using the exhaust fumes of diesel engines to kill passengers, were used to kill Jews at Chelmno and Treblinka - as well as other sites, not all of them concentration camps - starting in November 1941.  At least 320,000 Chelmno prisoners, most of them Jews, were killed by this method; a total of 870,000 Jews were murdered at Treblinka using gas vans and diesel-powered gas chambers.

source:http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/denial.html

Treblinka wrote:
There is much documentation that the FINAL SOLUTION for the Jews ’ will be dealt with AFTER the war.’

That is a matter of interpretation skewed by your confirmation bias.  There is plenty of Nuremberg documentation that clearly state otherwise, followed by the dug up corpses in mass graves that had bullets in their heads.  Anyone can watch film footage of Jews being marched into dug trench graves and being mowed down by Nazi machine gun fire.

Treblinka writes:
The stories of gassings of Jews by Zyklon-b was begun by Communists, in 1942 after the Advancing Germans had discovered massive murders at the hands of the retreating Russian communists.

please.  Why am I the only one in this exchange providing source documentation.  I have documented each refutation to your assertions.  Sources please.  You provide no source because there is none except the plants by your fascist hero Zundell.

Treblinka writes:
the Russain Jews, in german concentration camps were the ones who started the rumors of the Germans carrying out massive murders in order to place war atrocities on to the Germans, while the Russians were slaughtering millions.

Uh huh.  What did they do, send out unscreened hand written letters to the outside world right under the SS noses?  Another transparent assertion.

Treblinka writes:
What zionists hoaxsters hide behind, and scream anti semite so loud for, is because there is zero evidence for Germany mass killing of the Jews.

In your fantasy land, sure. 

Treblinka writes:
1.) Is there prussian blue on the morgue walls? answer- no! But there should be, since Zyklon-B gas creates a blue staining.

This is a seemingly convincing argument.  I haven’t found much to refute it by means of documentation.  Then again, by your own admission, the gas chambers were rebuilt after the war.  I assert that the old walls were rebuilt too, thus erasing the trace of Zyklon-b.  That did not take an advanced degree to think through.

Treblinka wrote:
2.) Is there a fuel source for burning 870,000 bodies?

It is well documented and undisputed that Auschwitz II served in part as slave labor forced to make rubber and was later changed to make fuels, see:

The IHR admits:

[Auschwitz] was an internment center and part of a large-scale manufacturing complex. Synthetic fuel was produced there, and its inmates were used as a workforce.
source:http://www.nizkor.com/features/qar/qar06.html

Treblinka writes:
How do you burn 870,000 bodies that are 70% water outdoors in a cold climate where it rains and snows and is often very wet ?
And do it in a place where the water table is 2 feet.

See above.

Treblinka wrote:
3.) Are there bones or piles of bones to examine?  there are no bones or ash or anything to examine at treblinka, sobibor or chelno, the site of about 2,000,000 of the 6,000,000
so called deaths.

The incompletely incinerated bones fell through the grill into the ash pit, were ground with wooden mortars along with the ashes, then poured into pits near the crematorium. Next they were removed from the pits and poured into the Vistula River or nearby ponds. Sometimes they were used to prepare compost; other times they were used directly to fertilize the fields of the camp farms.

4.) the US Army did 500 autopsies and came up empty handed, no gas in any dead body.

sources please.  Try not to use your shill, Zundell.

500 autopsies.  Hmm.  I wonder if those were done on the machine gunned victims, the Typhoid/maleria victims, the death by hanging victims… we should not expect to find gas in these bodies.  I think you are taking data out of context.  And oh, 500 out of millions of corpses.  Not a very convincing percentage. 

**edit later:  Thinking this through last night before I drifted off to sleep, if the gassed victims were cremated (and they were), then of course there would be zero bodies with any trace of Zyklon-B gas in them during an autopsy.  That’s exactly what we would expect.

Noggin

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Posted: 28 May 2006 10:06 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]  
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Good job, Noggin.

You have a lot of patience to put up with this fool.

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Posted: 28 May 2006 03:52 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]  
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Looks like treblinka’s infallible Pope hasn’t gotten the Holocaust denial talking points…....

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20060528/D8HT21CO0.html

[ Edited: 29 May 2006 09:17 AM by ]
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Posted: 29 May 2006 09:14 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]  
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Yes, the leader of the “one true faith/church,” as Treblinka likes to point out even has to ask God why he was silent as millions of innocent people were exterminated like the vermin those in power believed them to be.  My answer as to why he was silent is that he is not there in the first place.  One cannot blame the non-existent.  If God exists, I cannot wait to hear the explanation for this crime against creation.  Lastly, Treb, why do you blame the victims?  You say that the Jews must have been doing something that caused people to hate them and think it was okay to put them in camps with squalid conditions and work them as slave laborers until they were of no further use.  The women and children, the elderly, were all guilty of declaring war on Germany as you state.  That is quite a conspiracy for all those Jews who spoke different languages all over Europe (82 countries did you say?) to have taken part in.  You are guilty of blaming the rape victim for the rape.  She must have done something to deserve it.  What exactly was Anne Frank’s crime again?

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Posted: 30 May 2006 04:36 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]  
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There are those who trivialize the nazi extermination of over 6 million Jews

Every time I see this statement it makes me cringe.  Here is the accepted historical truth:

The Nazis exterrminated over 13 million people including slavs, gypsies, troublesome Christians, political ememies, and Jews.  The quantity of Jews is less than half the total although they represent the largest single group with slavs being second. Identifying the extermination of 6 million Jews gives deference to the Jews but trivializes the death of the majority - the other 7 million.

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Posted: 30 May 2006 05:37 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]  
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I may be older than many of you, and I certainly remember all this from the 50s - I don’t know where this idiot gets his assertion that “no world leader spoke of it till 1978.” My friend’s parents are Polish concentration camp survivors - would you like to discuss it with them? And I knew a man - Irish - who was a medical orderly, and went into Belsen on the day after its liberation. 50 years later he was still waking up screaming.

Whether they were gassed or shot or herded together and starved in conditions which was a ripe ground for typhus and other diseases is immaterial. They were murdered. And whether some Jews were communists or capitalists is immaterial - neither communism nor capitalism are genetic, and most Jews were neither. They were soldiers who had fought for their homeland - Germany - in WW1; they were doctors who helped and cared for their countrymen - Germans; they were teachers, lawyers, small shopkeepers, seamstresses, street cleaners, school-children, babies… Just like you, and just like me.

And their murder was directly ordered by Hitler. The fact that he was too cowardly to write it down (or possibly that those were the first orders destroyed when it became clear that it was all over) makes no difference - nothing happened in his glorious Third Reich without his expressed orders.

The Catholic church also bears a heavy responsibility for what happened. Their eighteen hundred years of lies about the Jews are second only to their lies about some fictional character called “Jesus”. Razenf*qer can shake his head all he likes - he knows damned well why his “god” was silent. Because his “god” says only what he wants him to say.
8)

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Posted: 30 May 2006 05:41 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]  
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[quote author=“Seti”]
The Catholic church also bears a heavy responsibility for what happened. Their eighteen hundred years of lies about the Jews are second only to their lies about some fictional character called “Jesus”. Razenf*qer can shake his head all he likes - he knows damned well why his “god” was silent. Because his “god” says only what he wants him to say.
8)

Treblinka is rabidly Catholic.  And he denies the Holocaust just as vociferously.

Are these two positions connected?  :wink:

The AG

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