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Treblinka, the fraud, the holocaust denier
Posted: 01 June 2006 05:48 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 31 ]  
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Noggin initially wrote:
In January or February, 1940, 250 Gypsy children from Brno in the Buchenwald concentration camp were used as guinea pigs for testing the Zyklon B gas (see Proester’s report ref.). On September 3, 1941, 600 Soviet POWs were gassed with Zyklon B at Auschwitz camp I; this was the first experiment with the gas at Auschwitz.

After the war, two directors of Testa were tried by a British military court and were executed for their part in supplying the chemical.

Modern Holocaust deniers assert that Zyklon B gas was not used in the gas chambers, as evidenced by the lack of Prussian Blue residue in the chambers themselves. The Institute for Forensic Research in Krakow, however, refuted this claim, finding substantial concentrations of cyanide in the buildings in 1994.[1]

Treblinka wrote:
This is incorrect.
AFTER Germar Rudolf, a Ph.D level chemist inspected the walls of auschwitz in 1992 and found they contained no Zyklon-B he published that information.  A pro holocaust institute in Poland sought to discredit Germar and did their own study.

They found he was right.

I provide documented sources, you provide transparent propaganda.  If one googles “Germar Rudolf” all that comes up is anti semite web pages and links like this:

In addition to Irving’s arrest, Rudolph, 41, was sent from Chicago this month to his native Germany, where he was wanted on a 1995 conviction of inciting racial hatred for disputing the deaths of thousands of Jews held captive at a concentration camp. Rudolph was sentenced to 14 months in prison for publishing a report disputing the deaths of thousands of Jews in the gas chambers at Auschwitz, according to a statement by the Department of Homeland Security. Rudolph, a former chemist, claimed in his report that since he had failed to find traces of Zyklon B on the bricks of gas chambers, mass gassings of Jews could not have occurred at Auschwitz.
source:http://www.forward.com/articles/6931

So then, seeing as how you are quite willing to support your so called holocaust hating “facts” with hard lined neo nazi fascist holocaust deniers… how are you surprised that nobody takes you seriously?  Zudell, Irving, and Rudolph, the three amigos of holocaust revisionism are now serving prison terms after having been extradited.  Their science has been proven fake.  Their facts have been proven construed to fit the biases.  They refuted and came up short.  Rudolph did not do any control group as part of his Zyklon-B study—go figure.

As for your “Ph.D level” crackpot chemist…. surely you are not referring to Leuchter’s report.  Leuchter, the known perjurer in Canadian court http://www.nizkor.com/faqs/leuchter/leuchter-faq-22.html.  Leuchter, the self professed professional when he did not even hold the right degree.  Leuchter, the Revisionist’s shill.

Treblinka wrote:
Once you remove the communist lies that surround Auschwitz which are well proven, there is nothing left over.

They are not well proven.  Your holocaust denier facts have been repeatedly shown to be false.

But let me take it one step further.

The cheerleaders for the hoax, claim 10,000 were gassed and cremated each day at Auschwitz.

Another lie made up out of thin air.

Well, the records of coke ( fuel)  deliveries to Auschwitz for 1942-1944 are safe and sound and well preserved.

They add up to 1032 tons.

Is that a lot ?

Yes, but at most it could only cremate 51,000 bodies.

so, where did the other million bodies go.

Treblinka, do you even read anything that anyone posts contra to your knee jerk spazz postings?

I already established that Auschwitz was a Buna rubber fabrication plant that was later converted to a SYNTHETIC FUEL plant.  So 1032 tons of coke does not a deal breaker make… in fact it becomes quite irrelevant since Auschwitz made fuel onsite.

Treblinka wrote:
If you say they are buried, then all one need to do is buy Germar’s book, and view the declassified photos of Auschwitz.

He has the US ARMY pictures of the camp , which were taken every month in 1942, 1943 1944 and not one picture shows any mass grave, mass burnings, or huge trenches.

Yes.  Of course he does.  That is because he completely cherry picked which photos he wanted to include in his so called Holocaust expose.  He conveniently left the damning evidenciary photos out of his book because they blow his whole propoganda shitstool out of the water.

Sorry, you need to produce some forensic evidence if you want to play the holohoax game and convince your audience.

No.  You are the one trying to prove the negative.  The burden of proof lies on you.  Your logic is completely flawed.  You have not documented even one source claim.  You run around shooting in the dark hoping to pick up a few feeble minded strays along the ways.

Treblinka wrote:
The sincere folks do ask a valid question when they say then what happened to the 6,000,000 Jews if they did not die in gas chambers.

It is estimated that 6,000,00 is a bity high for europeoan Jews and 5,000,000 is closer to the real number.

3,000,000 are estimated to have immigrated, mostly illegally,  to America, ( and changed thier names)

Okay.  Then why don’t the supposed 3,000,000 alive and kicking immigrated holocaust victims show their faces here in America?  Why won’t they contact their greiving relatives?  Write a letter?  Send a card?  A fax?  An email?  Show up at a loved ones birthday party?  They never do.  Your 3,000,000 supposed immigrants are silent!  They never write.  That is because they are dead.

Treblinka wrote:
1,000,000 went to places like Palestine, Australia, and other places that accepted Jews.

And these never write or contact loved ones in any way shape or form because….. 

Treblinka wrote:
When archeologoy teams uncover thousands of bones from mass graves and find Zyklon-B inthem , thenI will accept a few thousand were gassed.

Those with Zyklon-B in them were cremated.  The bones you are talking about, those victims that were gassed and buried will not have Zyklon-B because they were gassed with carbon monoxide powered by a diesel fuel generator. You know this.  What a tangled web you weave. Your dishonesty is nauseating.

see Gas Chambers at Treblinka:
During the camps early months of operation, there were 3 gas chambers, each 5x5 m, and 2.6 m high, similar to the first gas chambers of Sobibor. A room, attached to the gas chambers building, contained an petrol-driven engine which introduced the deadly carbon monoxide gas through pipes into the gas chambers. A combined diesel-driven generator supplied the electricity to the entire camp.  source: http://www.deathcamps.org/gas_chambers/gas_chambers_treblinka.html

Treblinka wrote:
Until then, it remains a myth, that is kept in circulation by powerful Zionist forces, who are cashing in bigtime.
and NO that is not my spin, but a quote from a powerful Zionist !

Oh please.  rolleyes  yes, sign me up for your spoonfulls of horseshit. :?:  I mean, come on… you paint yourself as such the goose stepping jack booted moronic thug and you love it.  You revel in it.  Well, have at it.

Noggin

~The attempt to justify an evil deed has perhaps more pernicious consequences than the evil deed itself. The justification of a past crime is the planting and cultivation of future crimes. Indeed, the repetition of a crime is sometimes part of a device of justification; we do it again and again to convince ourselves and others that it is a common thing and not an enormity. (Eric Hoffer, The Passionate State of Mind. New York: Harper & Brothers, 1954.)

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Posted: 11 June 2006 02:14 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 32 ]  
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[quote author=“Noggin”][quote author=“Wotansson”] The core fact is that 13 million died and the detail is that 6 million were Jews, x million Poles etc.

You are absoultely correct and I have been insenstive in that regard.  I will try to fix my approach in this and future discussions.  A human in a gas chamber is a human in a gas chamber regardless of ideology.

Noggin

If you ask the average person how many died in the holocaust, 6 million is the usual answer. The semitification of the holocaust; the promotion of the holocaust as an atrocity against Jews only, is a common distortion fostered by Jews. It is embraced since it supports the false notion that the Jews have suffered more that any people throughout history. Ironic that those who are so offended by denial of the holocaust, are so eager to distort it to promote their own interests.


Stay Well
Wot

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Posted: 11 June 2006 02:39 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 33 ]  
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[quote author=“Wotansson”]If you ask the average person how many died in the holocaust, 6 million is the usual answer. The semitification of the holocaust; the promotion of the holocaust as an atrocity against Jews only, is a common distortion fostered by Jews. It is embraced since it supports the false notion that the Jews have suffered more that any people throughout history. Ironic that those who are so offended by denial of the holocaust, are so eager to distort it to promote their own interests.

I really have a problem with that as well. The are rough estimates that 11 million died ...6 million being Jews, and roughly 5 million being divided among Russians, Gypsies, Ukrainians, homosexuals, mentally retarded etc.

The problem with the Russian numbers is that when they actually tallied those numbers, being that they were communist, they didn’t differentiate between those that were killed because they were Jewish and those that were just killed as casualties of war .

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Posted: 11 June 2006 03:19 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 34 ]  
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[quote author=“Mulaka”][quote author=“Wotansson”]If you ask the average person how many died in the holocaust, 6 million is the usual answer. The semitification of the holocaust; the promotion of the holocaust as an atrocity against Jews only, is a common distortion fostered by Jews. It is embraced since it supports the false notion that the Jews have suffered more that any people throughout history. Ironic that those who are so offended by denial of the holocaust, are so eager to distort it to promote their own interests.

I really have a problem with that as well. The are rough estimates that 11 million died ...6 million being Jews, and roughly 5 million being divided among Russians, Gypsies, Ukrainians, homosexuals, mentally retarded etc.

The problem with the Russian numbers is that when they actually tallied those numbers, being that they were communist, they didn’t differentiate between those that were killed because they were Jewish and those that were just killed as casualties of war .

I don’t get your point or your problem with regard to the topic or my statements. Are you trying to say that no Poles, Czechs, and other slavic people were exterminated and therefore the total is 11 million so 13 million is incorrect? What is your source for the tally? Try and make a point.

Stay Well

Wot

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Posted: 11 June 2006 04:14 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 35 ]  
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[quote author=“Wotansson”]I don’t get your point or your problem with regard to the topic or my statements. Are you trying to say that no Poles, Czechs, and other slavic people were exterminated and therefore the total is 11 million so 13 million is incorrect? What is your source for the tally?

Maybe I wasn’t clear enough. I was agreeing with you, and adding to it. I wasn’t trying to be exact with the numbers…that’s why I said rough estimate; most historians agree that the numbers were 11 million to 13 million…that wasn’t in contention on my part.

I was only offering the fact about Russia’s tallies incidentally.

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Posted: 21 June 2006 08:32 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 36 ]  
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Treb said:

There is documented photo evidence that Belzac which was a tiny , yes tiny, little transit camp was anything close to a death camp. Yet the legend claims 600,000 were gassed buried, dug up and burned on outdoor pyres and the evidence disappeared. It is a bogus story that is refuted by CIA air photo evidecne of 1944.

The CIA didn’t exist in 1944 by the way.  Never mind.  I’m sure that you’ll ignore those statements which don’t agree with your own. 

Just a quick question though?  Who fed that one to you?  Cos with a “fact” like this so easily disproven (see, I don’t have to provide sources either…), I’d be doubting the veracity of his more controversial “research”...

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Posted: 18 October 2006 03:12 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 37 ]  
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Holocaust - useless to argue about.
It was. Check the facts.
It was painful and barbaric.
Most Germans are embarrassed and pained by it.

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Posted: 19 October 2006 11:17 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 38 ]  
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[quote author=“treblinka”]The real purpose of research is to find the truth.

I think the real purpose of the world war 2 revisionism is to find the truth.

I personally would never favor a system other than a Monarchy,
so those who say revisionists favor one form of government are wrong.

The curious and very common denominator in any dialogue with supporters of a false thesis, is they refuse to look at the facts.

The only alternative they have to hold on to, is ad hominem attacks which as a trained debate expert, I know is never allowed in debate forums. It is after all, one of the weakest methods of refuting any argument.

But it is all the promoters of lies can muster. 

well name calling , again, is not anythig a judge would allow in a court of law and trials are not won or lost with name calling.


Consider just one very basic example.

870,000 persons, were supposedly gassed, then buried, then dug up, burned on outdoor pyres in a cold rainy snowy town, and then reburied.

the fuel ? well curiously the single eyewitness , upon whom this entire story rests never got around to that part of the story, and was never cross examinied, so it will never be known.

but how could 870,000 bodies be burned outside, when you lose 95%of the heat generated.

In short, you can not do it. All you could do is char a corpse.
Bodies are 70% water, and do not burn unless heat in excess of 1500 degrees is generated. outdoor fires might produce 600 degrees at the most.

Beyond the sheer impossibility, of cremating a corpse outside in cold weather, there is no evidence fuel shipents or deforestation in the area. Thanks to declassified air force photos.

Beyond that, overflights of the camps show no sign of any burnings taking place, the high water table would not allow trenches to be dug.

And there are no records or witness testimony of crematoriums shipped or built at Treblinka.

In other words there is no evidence, but one guy who was there tells a story and the world is to buy it hook line and sinker.


actually, the story gets even more wacky becasue now some
teachers are even making up new versions of the way 870,000
bodies were disposed of.

One such story making the rounds says the remains are in the hills of the near by area. the gently rolling hills are full of bones of dead people. That is a shock ,since there is no testimony form the sole eyewitness to that effect. He says they are all onthe ground of the small 22 acres camp.

Praise to Jesus. Jesus was a semite. Therefore the real anti semites are those who deny and oppose Jesus.

For the record, Catholics are the True Jews, since they are the chosen people who are partakers of the One True Faith outside of which there is no salvation. Even the former Chief Rabbi of Rome, Israel Zolli, figured it out and converted to the Catholic Faith.

There is something seriously wrong with you.  Who is this ‘sole’ witness.  There were hundreds, not just one survivor.  How could so many Jews, those who ESCAPED and still bear the marks of their capture, all tell the EXACT same story.  There is really something wrong with you.  Even the Germans who were brought to trial admitted the evil that was committed.  And Hitler himself, the one you say only wanted to move the Jews out of Germany, was Satan, himself.  He was such a coward he killed himself before they captured him for trial.  Some big fearless leader he was!

It’s sicko’s like you who are scary and cause the horrors of history to repeat themselves because of your refusal to believe what’s in front of your face!

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Posted: 19 October 2006 12:17 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 39 ]  
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Listen Treblinka has been gone for a couple of months. We all know he is crazy. Now don’t go answering his threads that have been long dead and chance his return. Nobody wants that to happen.

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Posted: 18 November 2006 10:58 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 40 ]  
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Listen, as the person on top of me wrote, there is no point in continueing this argument.

However, to all you readers who have read this far - I have been to Poland, and I have been to the remaining death camps, and heard survivors speak in person. Until you do not actually go and see everything in person, there is no point in arguing with you. Don’t give out facts until you have seen them. I have nothing more to add.

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Posted: 16 January 2007 03:49 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 41 ]  
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[quote author=“frankr”]Listen Treblinka has been gone for a couple of months. We all know he is crazy. Now don’t go answering his threads that have been long dead and chance his return. Nobody wants that to happen.

  I completely agree with you.  Unfortunately, Treb is once again promoting his/her psychotic propaganda. 

  The Germans kept extensive records of who was imprisoned in the death camps.  These records support the FACT that Hitler (just writing the name makes me sick) and his methadone addicted robot soldiers exterminated millions of Jews, Poles and pretty much anyone who did not fit his insane description of the perfect race.  Which of course he himself did not fit the description either. 

  For people like Treb, to try to deny this FACT is a shame.  Even if Treb was right, (which we all know He/she is not) the fact remains whether it was 13 million or 130,000 the atrocities committed by Hitler and his regime is not diminished in any way. 

Treb, do humanity a favor and accept the Fact that the number of those murdered in such a way is irrelevant to the fact that so many suffered in the most inhumane way.  The tactics used by Hitler are a grotesque fact.  As a Christian your heart should go out to all of those who died and to all those who suffered this despicable crime against humanity.  Whether it be one million, eleven million, 16 million or more is irrelevant, As a Christian and a fellow citizen of humanity, my heart his saddened and would still be so if the number of victims was only 1.

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Posted: 16 January 2007 04:54 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 42 ]  
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what does being a christian have to do with anything, anyway….. geez.  it doesn’t matter what treb is…. he’s just wrong.  as a human, we all know that…. it doesn’t have squat to do with christ!

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Posted: 09 February 2007 04:13 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 43 ]  
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Well, this is my first and probably also my last post at the Sam Harris forum.  I came here full of enthusiasm, looking forward to enlightened conversation about life, the universe and everything, but alas… it seems like most people here are not as rational as they like to believe they are.

I can understand why Treblinka left this forum:  debating with holocaust believers is, most of the time, just a waste of time.  As mentioned so often in the works of Sam Harris and others, people seem to have a saddening ability to partition their thoughts (“A person can be a God-fearing Christian on Sunday and a working scientist come Monday morning, without ever having to account for the partition that seems to have erected itself in his head while he slept. He can, as it were, have his reason and eat it too.”)  Most of the people on this forum, even though they may think of themselves as rational ‘Brights’, were indoctrinated from birth by the ‘holocaust religion’ and stories of the ‘Hilter devil’, and are as incapable of questioning their own beliefs as any other religious person.  Trying to convince fanatic holocaust believers of the irrationality of their beliefs is like trying to convince the Ayatolla that Islam is not the eternal truth.  Like ‘intelligent design’ weirdos, the holocaust believers try to use scientific-sounding arguments, seldom realising just how baseless their arguments and twisted their so-called ‘facts’ truly are.

We can only hope that the light of Science will one day illuminate and conquer the holocaust religion as it will all the other religions.

May Science illuminate you,

Julian

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Posted: 09 February 2007 05:38 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 44 ]  
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Wow.

I don’t know how much evidence it takes. A part of me at one time wanted to believe the holocaust was at least exaggerated. As a military history student, I empathized with the Wehrmacht generals and soldiers who accomplished such feats and overcame great odds. I admired their intelligence, daring, and bravery. I didn’t want to think it was in such an evil cause.

But the paper trail is so complete, the physical evidence is so overwhelming, and the scope of the complicity among the politicians, industrial leaders, military, and population is so vast.

As the point has been made, the exact number of deaths is irrelevant. The use of slave labour, the inhumane conditions, the existence of the ovens, gas trucks, mass graves, etc… its all real. Documented. Photographed. Witnessed.

The worst part., the absolutely horrific fact that came out of WWII; is that every nation took part in the most brutal atrocities.

We in the west are experts at justifying our actions. But there is plenty of guilt to go around. There is no doubt in my mind that the vast majority of humanity is capable of committing the worst atrocity conceivable under the right circumstance.

This shared weakness does two things. It absolves us all of guilt for that fatal flaw, and makes us all responsible to be watchful and prevent those circumstances from arising.

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Posted: 09 February 2007 06:11 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 45 ]  
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Hi Juliann

I hope that wasn’t your last post.  Please, with much seriousness, enlighten me.  I suppose you believe I am hopelessly in the dark believing that millions of humans were gassed and exterminated into oblivion.  You’ve portrayed me as little more than a non thinking sheep who follows the mainstream and I would like to know how you can do that.  Meaning, there must be some other argument Trblinka and myself did not address.  A final nail in the coffin so to speak. 

I’ve done much research on this subject.  I was not there when the holocaust happened so that fact alone required me to do it.  I debated Treblinka on the first few pages as an effort to hone the conclusions I drew from much raw data.

Do you have anything else to add for proof that the holocaust is a hoax?  If I missed something, I would certainly like to know what it was.  You read this thread and still think that the holocaust is a fake?  There is not a hint of doubt in your mind that you might be partial to a well developed conspiracy theory?

Noggin

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