Sam Harris

It’s far worse at private schools. Most private school teachers aren’t even certified, and many have no college degree at all…that’s pathetic. Kids who went to private school in the U.S, and go on to do well, do so because of their own perseverance; not the private school education.

Are you kidding? Catholic school students out perform public school in every category. I believe the statistics are the same for private schools. It is not even close.

I think you need to re-check your facts…

Private school graduates fail miserably in college with regard to science, philosophy, etc because those subjects in high school mixed religious BS in with it.

Maybe it is just your part of the country, but here in the north east, east, and south east private schools are atrocious.

Mulaka
I am including the East. Private schools do not have the resources that the public schools do and they still out perform them. There is a reason parents spend thousands of dollars more each year. I tried to find a website that you would not considered bias. I thought this one gave a clear and concise breakdown:
 

[quote author=“frankr”]Mulaka
I am including the East. Private schools do not have the resources that the public schools do and they still out perform them. There is a reason parents spend thousands of dollars more each year. I tried to find a website that you would not considered bias. I thought this one gave a clear and concise breakdown:
 

That is a 1998 site, and I question its validity. I know for a FACT you can’t teach at a public school without a college degree…so that website is giving false information from the get go…and totally blows its credability.

Private schools don’t require a degree or certification. ALL private schools in my area have teachers who are not only non-certified, but don’t have degrees.

Here is a more reputable site about public schools: source If you’ll notice under the first heading it states this: Public school teachers must have at least a bachelor’s degree, complete an approved teacher education program, and be licensed.

The stats on your site are false. There is a lot of false information out there about public schools to get people into the private schools. Public schools not only operate on less money, but they don’t have the resources that private schools have, and yet they offer a better, secular, education…free.

The ONLY private schools that may offer a better education would be those ultra elite private schools that are preparatory for Harvard and such.

I cannot argue with you Mulaka because the evidence is overwhelming and well documented. If you are unwilling to look at the data than a stalemate is all I can concede. I am not arguing the degrees or certification I am arguing the results. More private schools kids graduate high school, they do better on standardized tests, more go to college, more graduate college. They do it cheaper on average as well. These numbers are not disputed. People might dispute the why this so but they do not dispute the fact that it is so.

Yes, it is. Why won’t you accept it?

If you are unwilling to look at the data than a stalemate is all I can concede.

That’s just it, I look at the data…unbiased data, and it all says the same…private, religious schools on average are not as good as public. Any data to the contrary is not figuring in one very important fact: Private schools can pick and choose who they take…public schools can’t. If you take the same level students in a private school, and put them in a public school, they would do better. Sure, as an overall outlook, being that public schools take all students, it may look as though private schools graduate more, but it is a muddled result. Take a step back and look at the results from a full on approach. Good student to good student, private schools can’t touch public schools…skewed results are great for making a statistic fit the view you want to see.

Think about that.

Sure, as an overall outlook, being that public schools take all students, it may look as though private schools graduate more, but it is a muddled result. Take a step back and look at the results from a full on approach.

Like I said you can argue the reasons why as you do here but you cannot argue that they do not have better results. It may simply be that parents who invest additional dollars in their childrens education mioght be more demanding. The reason why is irrelevant the point is private schools outperform public schools.

Another reference

Okay, Frank, whatever you say…

http://www.felixsalmon.com/000492.html

http://www.projectappleseed.org/public-private.html

I give you the government report defining the difference and you give me a pro-public school group’s interpretation of the data. Why don’t you just call up the teachers union, I am sure they will agree with you as well.

Take away the fact that it is a pro public school web site and take away that their adjustment process is questionable and you still are left with the fact that the Catholic Schools have higher math scores. This is stated clearly in your report, which is what I have said from the beginning.

Smart children in schools filled with convicts might test better than children of similar backgrounds in Catholic schools but parents still will pay extra to keep them away from the convicts. This is why parents send their kids to private schools and private schools do better.

Okay, Frank. 

Like I said you can argue the reasons why as you do here but you cannot argue that they do not have better results. It may simply be that parents who invest additional dollars in their children’s education might be more demanding. The reason why is irrelevant the point is private schools outperform public schools.

Mulaka - He’s got you. As a former Catholic schoolteacher I can tell you that #1. Stats don’t lie and his examples are simply more legit than yours - and #2 frankr might very well be right… -
simple factors like parental involvement, small class size, and teacher accessibility can lead to better results academically. Doesn’t seem so far fetched to me.

And I’m not even Catholic.

—ck

even a good seed needs good soil and enough water and sunlight

[quote author=“frankr”]The reason why is irrelevant the point is private schools outperform public schools.

As a quick aside, I would say that the reason is very relevant when you’re trying to decide how to move forward.

If private schools have better results than public, and if the only (or primary) reason that’s true has nothing to do with the quality of the school itself, because it’s due to other causes, it’s difficult to argue there’s a reason to overhaul the public system.

less government is a good thing