Sam Harris

really bad idea, some religions also have a strong emphasis on arranged marriages, having children etc. when folk should just stay single and make room for others !

http://www.vhemt.org is a bit extreme, but you get the basic idea, people cause ecological harm, less people is good

That site’s a riot!

What a ridiculous concept - to end the existence of the only intelligent species known to exist!

I love this quote:

[quote author=VHEMT]When every human chooses to stop breeding, Earth’s biosphere will be allowed to return to its former glory, and all remaining creatures will be free to live, die, evolve (if they believe in evolution), and will perhaps pass away, as so many of Mother Nature’s “experiments” have done throughout the eons.

That’s not how it works. Assuming you accept the theory of evolution as true, then all life evolves - if it is not, it doesn’t, regardless of what anyone beleives.

[quote author=“VHEMT”]When every human chooses to stop breeding, Earth’s biosphere will be allowed to return to its former glory, and all remaining creatures will be free to live, die, evolve (if they believe in evolution), and will perhaps pass away, as so many of Mother Nature’s “experiments” have done throughout the eons.

Evolution can even dispense with human beings, all by its lonesome. No need to get your knickers in a knot.  :cry:

[quote author=“Zen Punk”]What a ridiculous concept - to end the existence of the only intelligent species known to exist!

Intelligent? Sez who? Can I get a second opinion? “Whenever the thought occurs to you as to how wonderful your brain is, just remember who’s telling you that.”  8)

VHEMT. Now that’s my kinda place!

AND, I quote:

“When troops were called up for the Gulf Massacre, sperm banks were taking deposits hand over fist.”

Hand over fist. Or some other appendage. I love it.

[quote author=“jetsetjason”]really bad idea, some religions also have a strong emphasis on arranged marriages, having children etc. when folk should just stay single and make room for others !

http://www.vhemt.org is a bit extreme, but you get the basic idea, people cause ecological harm, less people is good

It is people that define the concepts of good and bad. Without a conscious mind to make value judgments, there can be no value judgments. Your idea is based on the fallacy of intrinsic value, the belief that some things can have value in and of themselves, apart from humans that value them. There can be no value without a value-er. Unspoiled nature is of value to some people for esthetic reasons. But then they confuse those esthetic reasons for some metaphysical intrinsic value.

Also, it makes the mistake of thinking of human beings as something separate, apart from nature. Humans ARE a part of nature. What is the moral difference between a beaver dam and a man-made dam? Both destroy other life in favor of their builders and change the ecosystem. Why is one damage and the other not? When the first photosynthetic organisms appeared, they released the first high concentration of free oxygen into the atmosphere. Oxygen was a toxin to all life that existed at the time, and may have resulted in one of the first mass extinctions. Was that environmental damage?

[quote author=“SaulOhio”]Was that environmental damage?

Not to disagree with SaulOhio, but only to amplify: try to wriggle outside the boundaries of language and imagine what an ecosystem is free of your human description of it

you may not succeed, but for pete’s sake, at least try. if you do, you will see that humanity carries the seeds of its own destruction, no differently than any other species that has ever existed.

[quote author=“deldotvee”]
Not to disagree with SaulOhio, but only to amplify: try to wriggle outside the boundaries of language and imagine what an ecosystem is free of your human description of it

Human language is the means by which I come to understand what an ecosystem is. You want me to ride a bike without a bike?

you may not succeed, but for pete’s sake, at least try. if you do, you will see that humanity carries the seeds of its own destruction, no differently than any other species that has ever existed.

There is nothing inherently self-destructive about humanity. Only bad ideas such as those of deep ecology environmentalists, Marxists, and religion.

[quote author=“SaulOhio”]There is nothing inherently self-destructive about humanity. Only bad ideas such as those of deep ecology environmentalists, Marxists, and religion.

I see I was too charitable. Do you want something to believe in? Es ist vollig mir egal.