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Posted: 03 October 2006 01:50 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]  
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Mr. Unknown Stranger,

You haven’t hurt my feelings, judging by the size of your intellect, that would be impossible.

And I didn’t write that observation on you and your fellow Christian zombies, I merely posted it to get a rise out of you.

Basically, all you have is one book and that’s the basis of your entire existence. You haven’t done any amount of research (obviously) outside of that one book, so your entire discourse on this subject is mute.

If you HAD done any amount of research, you would not be reciting rhetorical babble out of said comic book.

Ignorance is faith, not bliss. So my suggestion to you is either keep your one-sided (and badly placed) views to yourself whilst keeping that blindfold snug and tight or remove it and start thinking for youself.

Reality is waiting…  :D

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“All religions are valid, NONE are literal.” -Joseph Campbell

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Posted: 03 October 2006 02:07 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]  
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3n7r0py, uh, and all other detractors. I am getting annoyed at the constant disagreement with Christianity.

I want you all to zip it, and tow the line. That means, stop disagreeing and join the 89% of the country who believe in Jesus Christ.

Now I know….I know….ZIPppp-Stop that!.......(knew you were thinking it).....I know that your little minds are churning at the moment. But don’t do it. Repeat, do not do it. Just go along with the flow.

Can we….can we….all just get along. I say, YES, we can. Just listen and go along with what us moral majority is saying and its all good. Everything is good. Forget about science, who believes in minkeys anyway…..

did you say minkeys?
yes, I said minkey
what is a minkey???

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Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light. Matt 11:28-29

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Posted: 03 October 2006 02:18 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]  
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For some reason i’ll answer you:

I have read both the OT and the NT, so don’t presume to know what i have read. Please, tell us what reading BESIDES the bible you have read to suggest you have any idea what you are talking about.

I attack and offend things I fear and don’t understand???? You’ve got to be kidding. You are the one who hides behind your bible and your god because your afraid to say the words “I don’t know.” they are extremely liberating, i’d suggest you try it, but I know you won’t. What we (aethists) attack is your blind acceptace of events on a lack of evidence, and how you allow your faith to hurt people.

>Think about this. If Jesus weren’t real and alive, why would so many non-believers be so angry and volitile towards the people who choose to believe? You don’t care if the Muslems believe in Allah, who wants to kill anyone who doesn’t believe (especially athiests), you don’t care if people believe in Buddah, so why attack as you do Jesus? Ever asked yourself this question?

I do care about muslims beleving in allah, just as much as i care about christians beleiving in their god. However, I live in the USA, and while i feel for the oppressed women living in muslim societies (not all are oppressed, but many are), In the USA, it is CHRISTIANS who are enforcing their dogma upon public policy, and it is disgraceful.

Your right, i don’t care about buddhists. First up, learn something about buddhism: Buddah is not a god, nor is he worshipped as one, move along please. Second, Buddhists don’t harm anyone, they don’t have dogma that prevents medical research that causes suffering for human beings. Buddhists don’t care if people are gay, it doesn’t mean anything. Buddhists don’t commit acts of violence. Leave the buddhists alone.

>You must really have a deep seeded fear that if you are wrong about Christ and the day of His return comes, it will be too late for you.

I’ll be brief on this point as im sure you are far to lazy to read the other threads on this subject.  I have NO FEAR whatsoever. And that, as Sam points out, should frighten the heck out of you. If I am wrong, then so are 4 billion other people on this planet. And guess what, they feel the SAME WAY about you. They feel that you should be scared that you do not accept there god, as you will certainly face eternal torment. However, rather than suggest that their might be something wrong here then with faith and religions, you will gladly accept that everyone else is wrong, and doomed to due the eternal backstroke in the lake of fire.

Here are some questions for you then: Please answer them for us:

What denomination of christian are you?

How did you decide that this denomination is the correct one?

Do you believe that all those people who believe differently are destined to hell?

I am sure i know the answers, but lets just give it a try, shall we?

Adam

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Posted: 03 October 2006 02:24 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]  
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I guessing they’re both Dominionists…

Christians can keep their outdated religion if they choose. So long as they don’t take it literally and accept the fact that it is just ONE of many faith-based ideas trying to curb our natural human tendencies to question everything.

How can you consider a religion to be the ONE TRUE religion if the very holy book in which their draw their beliefs has had multiple versions and countless rewrites.

How many Christians are still promoting the idea that the sun revolved around the earth and that epilepsy is demonic possession?

How many Christians own slaves? Their holy book clearly states its okay.

Those who argue about what Sam says, either: 1. Don’t understand it or 2. Haven’t listened.

The arguments posed by Joseph Campbell and Sam Harris are the closest thing to a fool-proof investigation of ideas I’ve ever seen.

Also, I know we’re never going to change eachothers beliefs - but that’s what CONVERSATIONAL INTOLERANCE is all about. The topic of faith/religion is always going to be somewhat heated, but the fact that Christians like yourselves come here to engage in dialogue is what CONVERSATIONAL INTOLERANCE is meant to lead us to.  smile

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Posted: 03 October 2006 03:26 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]  
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Unknown,

It would equally not be clear to people 2000 years from now whether some rock star named the King was paying people visits after his death- that is if they, like you with the Bible, were to take such written accounts at their face value. People now believe they have been visited by the King. They really do. I bet if you counted them they would number more than the 500 people who claimed to have seen Jesus after his death. Of course, you would think their claim silly like everyone else would here, but we all have the benefit of living now and seeing it for what it is.

I don’t think any of us should feel obliged to believe their claim due to its very nature. Take a similar claim and push it back 2000 years from now, it is all the more unbelievable, at least to people who gauge it no differently than any other claim.

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Posted: 03 October 2006 03:33 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]  
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The Champion,

What is the deal with you?

Do you just not understand what is often said?

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Posted: 09 October 2006 09:11 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]  
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[quote author=“unknown”]LETTER TO AN ATHEIST (Part 1 of 2)
Tom Flannery

Tuesday 3 October 2006, by Alain

To promote “Letter to a Christian Nation,” the new book by avowed atheist Sam Harris, Random House has compiled a litany of quotes presented as words of wisdom from the author and posted them on its website — along with some statistics that are clearly meant to alarm us.


But should we be alarmed by them? And are Harris’ sentiments really words of wisdom?

Is it alarming that 83% of Americans believe that Jesus Christ rose from the dead? Well, it is if you believe (as atheists like Harris do) that the Bible must be accepted purely on faith, without the benefit of corroborating evidence or ever being subjected to rigorous scrutiny of any kind. Yet the Bible itself commands us to test everything (I Thess. 5:21).

And then it also says not to (Matt 4:7)

The KJV says “Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God”.  But other translations make it clear that “test” is what it meant, rather than what a speaker of modern English understands by the word “tempt”. 

ASV: Jesus said unto him, Again it is written, Thou shalt not make trial of the Lord thy God.

BBE: Jesus said to him, Again it is in the Writings, You may not put the Lord your God to the test.

WEY: “Again it is written,” replied Jesus, “‘Thou shalt not put the Lord thy God to the proof.’”

WEB: Jesus said to him, “Again, it is written,‘You shall not test the Lord, your God.’”

So apparently, you are not to use your critical thinking skills when investigating the Bible’s claims.


[quote author=“unknown”]The truth is that there’s a great deal of historical evidence which supports Christ’s bodily resurrection from the grave. For instance, we have the first-hand testimonies of the disciples of Christ, who witnessed the events surrounding His death and burial then had personal encounters with the Risen Christ in the days that followed. As the apostle Peter explained: “For we did not follow cunningly devised fables when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of His majesty” (II Pet. 1:16).

In all, more than 500 people saw the Risen Christ over a period of several weeks. As Christian apologist Josh McDowell writes in his book “Evidence That Demands a Verdict,” if you brought all of those 500-plus witnesses into a courtroom and allowed them each just six minutes to give their accounts, you would have an astounding 50 hours of first-hand, eyewitness testimony in support of Christ’s bodily resurrection from the grave.

So why is there not written testimony by some of these 500+ witnesses?  Why is there nothing recorded in any source outside the Bible?  And as for the “first-hand testimonies of the disciples of Christ”, you really need to bone up on your Biblical scholarship, since none of Christ’s disciples apparently authored any of the Gospels.  This means it’s not first hand evidence.  And what about the darkness which purportedly fell “over all the land” from the sixth hour until the ninth hour (Matt. 27:45; Mark 15:33; Luke 23:44) while Christ was on the cross?  Are we really to believe that such an event could transpire without it being recorded in Egypt, Greece, Syria, Arabia, Persia, and the other nations that would have experienced it (assuming it was merely regional, and “all the land” didn’t mean the whole earth, in which case we should also certainly expect the Chinese to have said something about it as well)?

And then there is a reference to the “many saints” who were resurrected after an earthquake opened their tombs at the moment of Jesus’s death and who later went into the city and appeared unto “many” (Matt. 27:52-53). If this had happened, it would have been witnessed by far more people than the resurrection of Jesus, but strangely no one else besides Matthew (not even Mark or Luke) makes any mention this extraordinary event.  Why not?  The obvious and rational answer is that it’s just another legend that developed along with Christianity.  Something so remarkable simply would not have passed unnoticed by historians of the time, and we have the works of several historians who either lived during this time, or within a generation of it, which survives to the present day. 

[quote author=“unknown”]Not only were their lives dramatically transformed after seeing and touching and eating with the Risen Christ — when they went from hiding in locked rooms in fear for their lives before the Resurrection to openly and boldly proclaiming the gospel throughout Jerusalem and well beyond after it — but many of these witnesses also sealed their testimonies with their own blood by dying willingly as martyrs rather than renouncing the truth that Christ had risen from the dead.

And yet we have absolutely no historical references for this anywhere outside the Bible.  Curious.

[quote author=“unknown”]Combine this with all of the other historical evidence for the Resurrection — the facts surrounding the empty tomb, the inability of the authorities to produce Christ’s corpse after news of His appearances began spreading, the conversion of Saul of Tarsus (enemy and persecutor of the church) to the apostle Paul (writer of two-thirds of the New Testament by inspiration of God) after his own encounter with the Risen Christ, etc. — and you begin to see that it takes more faith not to believe in the Resurrection and to come up with ridiculous hypotheses like “the swoon theory” to try to explain it away than to follow the data where they lead and affirm this supremely-attested historical event.

You are spouting Christian propaganda.  This “supremely-attested historical event” is attested to by no other sources than the books of the New Testament, and even they tell versions of it which cannot be reconciled with one another.  There is no solid extra-Biblical evidence that Jesus ever even existed in the first place, let alone that he was resurrected.

[quote author=“unknown”]Yet Harris relates with palpable dread: “A person who believes that Elvis is still alive is very unlikely to get promoted to a position of great power and responsibility in our society…But people who believe equally irrational things about God and the bible are now running our country. This is genuinely terrifying.”

Nonsense. There is not a scintilla of evidence to suggest that Elvis is alive; in fact, all of the evidence we have confirms that The King has indeed “left the building” (what the Bible calls our earthly tent, or body). So holding to an “Elvis lives” philosophy is incontestably irrational, whereas faith in Christ’s resurrection is rooted in solid historical data. For this reason, it’s deceptive and intellectually dishonest to try to compare the two beliefs.

There is no more solid evidence that Jesus was resurrected than that Elvis was.  A reasonable person will conclude that neither rose from the dead.

[quote author=“unknown”]Another alarming statistic, according to Harris, is that 49% of Americans believe the Bible to be the inspired Word of God.

Actually, this isn’t very surprising at all when you consider the abundance of evidence for the Resurrection, the multitude of specific Bible prophecies that were provably fulfilled hundreds and in some cases even thousands of years after they were recorded, all of the scientific and medical knowledge revealed in the Bible long before being “discovered” by man, and many other infallible proofs for the veracity of Scripture.

So Harris shouldn’t be so chagrined by the fact that a stunning 87% of Americans say they never doubt the existence of God.

There’s simply no reason for them to do so.

There is abundant reason, if they would only shed the indoctrination of evidence-denying theists.

[ Edited: 09 October 2006 09:45 PM by ]
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I am the very model of a Christian Evangelical
I’ve no need for courtesy when fighting things heretical
I know the bible word for word; you’ll find me pedagogical
I have my faith so I’ve no need for ideas that are logical
Atheists and Pagans fall before my wit satirical
They’ll burn in hell just as they should; their cries will be so lyrical
I’m always right, you’re always wrong, my reasoning’s dogmatical
For I’m the very model of a Christian Evangelical

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Posted: 09 October 2006 09:28 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]  
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A solid, sane response, Billy—bravo! And welcome to the forum.

And thanks a bunch for sticking that song in my head, too rolleyes. Okay, everybody sing, since I hate to sing alone:


What would you think if I sang out of tune,
Would you stand up and walk out on me?
Lend me your ears and I’ll sing you a song
And I’ll try not to sing out of key.

Oh, I get by with a little help from my friends. . .

Ain’t it the truth wink.

 

.

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Welcome to Planet Earth, where Belief masquerades as Knowledge!

This way to the Unasked Questions—->
<—- This way to the Unquestioned Answers

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Posted: 09 October 2006 09:36 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]  
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[quote author=“Mia”]A solid, sane response, Billy—bravo! And welcome to the forum.

And thanks a bunch for sticking that song in my head, too rolleyes. Okay, everybody sing, since I hate to sing alone:


What would you think if I sang out of tune,
Would you stand up and walk out on me?
Lend me your ears and I’ll sing you a song
And I’ll try not to sing out of key.

Oh, I get by with a little help from my friends. . .

I get high with a little help from my friends…


[quote author=“Mia”]Ain’t it the truth wink.

Thanks.  I’ve read several of the posts (including yours) here before joining and posting, and just let me say, greetings from another former Christian who finally shook off years of indoctrination and woke up to reality.

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I am the very model of a Christian Evangelical
I’ve no need for courtesy when fighting things heretical
I know the bible word for word; you’ll find me pedagogical
I have my faith so I’ve no need for ideas that are logical
Atheists and Pagans fall before my wit satirical
They’ll burn in hell just as they should; their cries will be so lyrical
I’m always right, you’re always wrong, my reasoning’s dogmatical
For I’m the very model of a Christian Evangelical

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Posted: 10 October 2006 12:33 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]  
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I am enjoying the coincident that 83% is the exact number of Swedish citizens that don’t believe in the bible.

Welcome to the party Billy.

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“If your original Hebrew disagrees with my original King James—- your original Hebrew is wrong.”—FSTDT

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Posted: 10 October 2006 05:04 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]  
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[quote author=“SeanK”]
Talk about a garden of eden!  8)

I’m eating an apple as I type. Oh, the knowledge. smile

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“If your original Hebrew disagrees with my original King James—- your original Hebrew is wrong.”—FSTDT

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Posted: 13 October 2006 07:57 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]  
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“Because before it’s all said and done, we will reign victorious!”

Nice.  And by your belief, 99% of all humans who have ever lived will be burning forever.  Nice guy, your God.

As my six-year-old daughter once said, “When I talk to God, how come he never answers me?”  Good question.

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Posted: 14 October 2006 11:16 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]  
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[quote author=“TheChampion”]3n7r0py, uh, and all other detractors. I am getting annoyed at the constant disagreement with Christianity.

I want you all to zip it, and tow the line. That means, stop disagreeing and join the 89% of the country who believe in Jesus Christ.

How terrible that you are annoyed. You can imagine how much I care!
Don’t worry about us Champ, just sit back enjoy the kool aid and have a piece of an imaginary living/dead man.

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The ants are my friends, they’re blowing in the wind, the ants are blowing in the wind.

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Posted: 19 October 2006 07:05 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]  
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” I believe the Bible to be inerrant because the Bible says it is inerrant.”

                                                    - Stephen Colbert

LOL  LOL  LOL

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Posted: 19 October 2006 08:40 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]  
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[quote author=“Anonymous”]” I believe the Bible to be inerrant because the Bible says it is inerrant.”

                                                    - Stephen Colbert

LOL  LOL  LOL

What staggering intellect!!  No wonder you have a TV show in prime time.  Transmogrification totally rocks!!!!!!!

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