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Sam Drops the Ball
Posted: 09 January 2007 01:50 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 136 ]  
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[quote author=“made_maka”][quote author=“aaeoni”]

 

You should have quoted this part:

If you continue to abusively stress your body through pagan practices to go beyond its God given natural functioning, so you can satisfy your lustful appetite for sexual, physical, and psychological ecstasy, you will temporarily reap the unnatural Ungodly reward of the Kundalini/Shekhinah experience.  However, be lovingly advised, in the end you will answer to the God who created all and your next spirit baptism will be in the fire of Hell!

Sic.  Anyone who wants to read the whole hilarious thing go here .

And this is the very colorful and decorative home page of Shalach Ministries, which is apparently our little aeon friend’s spiritual home.

 

Made-Maka,

This is the second time I posted this article if you follow the thread you will see that.  As stated in the original post I was too tired to cut and paste the Christian comments out of the article.  I didn’t want to offend any of you sensitive atheists or have you feel I was proselytizing.  I do have my manners and respect as I wish some more posters on this forum would have as well.  As I also stated earlier in the thread, try to read the information presented without bias. (Meaning: don’t automatically assume the information is false because it came from someone who is Christian and by your stereotypical viewpoint insane for being so.) The information in regard to the dangers as well as religious background of yoga can be easily verified through numerous sources. Here is a link from Wikipedia, which supports the information within the piece I posted:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoga

Below is information I cut and pasted from Wikipedia on the “Known Side affects of Kundalini Yoga practice: Here is the link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kundalini

[

edit] Known side effects
Kundalini’s benefits do not occur without problems.[20][21][11] The following side effects have been noted by numerous teachers. These problems can persists for moments, hours, days, months, years or decades. They can also reoccur. All students with an active kundalini, experience at least a few, if not many, of these side effects. Generally these problems begin to occur after a few months (less likely) or years (more likely) after starting a contemplative practice, but in some cases they begin very soon after starting meditation or yoga.[20]

Summary of Known Problems: Death, pseudo death, psychosis, pseudo psychosis, confusion, anxiety, panic attacks, depression, sadness, suicidal thoughts, urges to self-mutilate, homicidal urges, arrhythmia (irregular heart beat), exacerbation of prior or current mental illness, insomnia, inability to hold a job, inability to talk, inability to drive, sexual pains, temporary blindness, and headaches.[11][20][22][23][21][24]

According to Transpersonal theory, and eastern spiritual traditions, these problems are thought to arise as karma - deep physical, psychological and emotional material - is brought to the surface of the mind as a result of yoga and meditative practice.[11] Consultation with a meditation teacher who is not trained in kundalini techniques or with a psychiatrist, medical doctor or therapist who is unknowledgeable about this process often leads to confusion and misunderstanding. Using Western medicine to treat or suppress the kundalini symptoms is not recommended, and might in some cases, have undesirable side effects.[20][23] Grof noted that suppressing kundalini’s side effects with psychiatric medicine could lead to death.[20] However, Lukoff et.al note that there may be times when medication can play a role in recovery, and integration of spiritual experiences.


Maybe if it is coming from a source other than A Christian you may consider the information. 

  I genuinely urge all of those seeking to embark on a Journey into this form of enlightenment to please do the research on the “known” dangers.  I understand you have respect for Sam Harris for coming out and attacking religion publicly but his future path does not reflect your belief in his beliefs.

Mia, When I said I rather you call me insane than bullshyte me with fake kindness I was actually complimenting your honest approach in regards to your feelings and or opinions about me.  Instead of pretending, to be someone you are not as I say Sam Harris is doing you show your true colors.  Regardless of what those colors may be they are true to your person.  Moreover, I was trying to say I respect your honesty even if I disagree with your opinion.

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Posted: 09 January 2007 03:36 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 137 ]  
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[quote author=“aaeoni”]

  I genuinely urge all of those seeking to embark on a Journey into this form of enlightenment to please do the research on the “known” dangers.  I understand you have respect for Sam Harris for coming out and attacking religion publicly but his future path does not reflect your belief in his beliefs.

There are certainly side effects of kundalini exercises that have to be watched for, although not generally so serious as you have made it sound.  The basic fact is that kundalini energy can release various repressed experiences, fixations, fascinations, and so on as well as energize unhealthy aspects of the psyche that have not been processed and dealt with.  So can various other forms of meditation and even intense Christian prayer.  In other words, if a person in going into any sort of self-realization process using powerful psychic techniques then had best do so under the instruction of an expert, and be well stabilized in their personal life.  People who worry about such things might be better off submitting to a dogmatic belief system.

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Posted: 09 January 2007 03:44 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 138 ]  
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Summary of Known Problems: Death, pseudo death, psychosis, pseudo psychosis, confusion, anxiety, panic attacks, depression, sadness, suicidal thoughts, urges to self-mutilate, homicidal urges, arrhythmia (irregular heart beat), exacerbation of prior or current mental illness, insomnia, inability to hold a job, inability to talk, inability to drive, sexual pains, temporary blindness, and headaches.

Hey, man . . . got any more?

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Posted: 10 January 2007 05:07 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 139 ]  
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[quote author=“aaeoni”](Meaning: don’t automatically assume the information is false because it came from someone who is Christian and by your stereotypical viewpoint insane for being so.) The information in regard to the dangers as well as religious background of yoga can be easily verified through numerous sources.

I love it when Christians scrutinize other religions or political/philosophical movements they consider competing with them. Given two thousand years of history assuming that such information coming from Christian is false is the only sensible thing to do.

I know from a first hand experience the working of the Catholic Church propaganda when it comes to discrediting the Eastern religions in particular. Depending on the target audience the level of sophistication delivered in such propaganda varies. I had a chance to review parochial pamphlets distributed in the Polish Catholic Church aimed at discrediting Sai Baba and reiki. What can I say. Outrages lies, outrages lies and more outrages lies. The pamphlet “warns” the faithful about the dangers of even trying one session of reiki or falling for the message of Sai Baba (I don’t know what the two have in common but the Church probably put them together to attack the entire Eastern thinking stuff at once). Here is the main thought of the pamphlet. Both Sai Baba and reiki represent Satan and have only one purpose in mind: to capture and destroy your soul. “Reiki initially helps but after a while the benefits go away and the only way to bring them back is to go deeper into depending on them. In the end you go insane and die horrible death.”

My first reaction to the pamphlet was to say “Wow, isn’t it amazing that Satan and Jesus work exactly the same way? How then one can distinguish between the two?”.

Talking about the dangers of religion why don’t we get on the Christian case for a change? Let’s discuss the dangers of celibacy, the dangers of fasting, the dangers of losing one’s mind through fervent prayers… and the list goes on and on. In this country we had a few spectacles of what Christians can do when getting too excited about Jesus and Satan. Kill your own children because “God told me to do it”. Kill a “posessed” through exorcism. Sexually abuse children to relieve the pentup sexual frustration.

Aaeoni, I think that believers of religion responsible for killing thousand of “witches” and committing multitude of crimes through religion induced insanity have no credibility when pointing to the dangers of other religions.

Yoga in particular has been recognized as one of the best methods to maintain healthy mind in a healthy body. Yoga and Buddhism seduce many Western minds with their philosophy of love, empathy and compassion. No wonder the Christian establishment sees them as a powerful threat to its authority and power.

Thomas Orr

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Posted: 11 January 2007 05:41 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 140 ]  
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[ :o

[ Edited: 15 January 2007 02:55 PM by ]
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Posted: 11 January 2007 05:42 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 141 ]  
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I love it when Christians scrutinize other religions or political/philosophical movements they consider competing with them. Given two thousand years of history assuming that such information coming from Christian is false is the only sensible thing to do.

I love it when people automatically assume (and we all know what to assume means) that because I am a Christian I am competing with other religions.  I have no power over peoples choices.  You choose not to believe in God that is your right, as is my right to choose what I believe.  It is not my right to condemn you because of it.  Those who say they are Christian and condemn others to hell for not being so are wrong.  I don’t have the keys to the pearly gates and I am not the bouncer at the door to eternity.  For me to assume who is and is not going to heaven is to make an (what the first three letters of the word assume spell) out of myself. 

I know from a first hand experience the working of the Catholic Church propaganda when it comes to discrediting the Eastern religions in particular. Depending on the target audience the level of sophistication delivered in such propaganda varies. I had a chance to review parochial pamphlets distributed in the Polish Catholic Church aimed at discrediting Sai Baba and reiki. What can I say. Outrages lies, outrages lies and more outrages lies. The pamphlet “warns” the faithful about the dangers of even trying one session of reiki or falling for the message of Sai Baba (I don’t know what the two have in common but the Church probably put them together to attack the entire Eastern thinking stuff at once).


I don’t know about either of the two so I wil not comment on what I don’t know

Here is the main thought of the pamphlet. Both Sai Baba and reiki represent Satan and have only one purpose in mind: to capture and destroy your soul. “Reiki initially helps but after a while the benefits go away and the only way to bring them back is to go deeper into depending on them. In the end you go insane and die horrible death.”

My first reaction to the pamphlet was to say “Wow, isn’t it amazing that Satan and Jesus work exactly the same way? How then one can distinguish between the two?”.

Talking about the dangers of religion why don’t we get on the Christian case for a change? Let’s discuss the dangers of celibacy, the dangers of fasting, the dangers of losing one’s mind through fervent prayers… and the list goes on and on. In this country we had a few spectacles of what Christians can do when getting too excited about Jesus and Satan. Kill your own children because “God told me to do it”. Kill a “posessed” through exorcism. Sexually abuse children to relieve the pentup sexual frustration.

I don’t believe in celibacy for priests.  That is completely un-biblical.  It is written (which I don’t have the exact verse so excuse my memory) it is better to refrain from sex and to serve only the Lord but if you are unable to do this, it is better to take a wife/husband than to fall into sin. As to the subject of killing their children in the name of God, I have posted my response to this in another thread.

The Vatican and its doctrine are misleading the Catholic Church and I say this because he can’t save his followers.  All the Vatican wants is power at the expense of their followers.  I went to Catholic School for twelve years and never once did they provide me with a Bible.  Instead, I received as you state little pamphlets.  It is a shame that people think the pope has a direct phone line to God.  He is just as human as we are.  No, I am not Catholic.

Aaeoni, I think that believers of religion responsible for killing thousand of “witches” and committing multitude of crimes through religion induced insanity have no credibility when pointing to the dangers of other religions.

I do not and have never agreed with the criminal acts committed by Christians in the name of God.  It again is completely against the Bible.  To lump every Christian into this group is the same as saying all Psychologists are dangerous because of all the people who suffered from lobotomies or All OBG doctors are rapists because one of them fondled his patient.  I mean really Thomas is “that” logical?

Yoga in particular has been recognized as one of the best methods to maintain healthy mind in a healthy body. Yoga and Buddhism seduce many Western minds with their philosophy of love, empathy and compassion. No wonder the Christian establishment sees them as a powerful threat to its authority and power.

Thomas Orr

It has been recognized for it’s benefits but you haven’t addressed any of the side effects that are dangerously present.  Does this mean you agree that the suffering for many is irrelevant because of the most who benefit?  If so than you are the same as those who believed, it was better to kill the minority of witches to save the majority of believers.  On the other hand, do you think it ethical for Sam Harris and (whoever else) to promote this type of practice without informing his followers of the dangerous side effects including but not limited to death and psychosis, which are experienced by “every student” in varying degrees?  Lobotomies and electric shock were prominent in their day to.

[ Edited: 11 January 2007 01:31 PM by ]
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Posted: 11 January 2007 06:11 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 142 ]  
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[quote author=“burt”][quote author=“aaeoni”]

  I genuinely urge all of those seeking to embark on a Journey into this form of enlightenment to please do the research on the “known” dangers.  I understand you have respect for Sam Harris for coming out and attacking religion publicly but his future path does not reflect your belief in his beliefs.

There are certainly side effects of kundalini exercises that have to be watched for, although not generally so serious as you have made it sound.


I have not made it sound any different than it is.  The side effects listed on Wikipedia are not my writings.  I guess the possibility of death and psychosis are not serious enough for you.

The basic fact is that kundalini energy can release various repressed experiences, fixations, fascinations, and so on as well as energize unhealthy aspects of the psyche that have not been processed and dealt with.  So can various other forms of meditation and even intense Christian prayer.  In other words, if a person in going into any sort of self-realization process using powerful psychic techniques then had best do so under the instruction of an expert, and be well stabilized in their personal life.

 
By Experts, do you mean the Buddhist monks (or those who have been trained by one)? You act as if they will of course not try to persuade an student to conform to their belief system.  I can see the changes within peoples beliefs on this forum just by reading the recent posts.  Most started out there is no God and all religions of the world are crazy…. then it went to there is no physical proof of God and science is the only rational…. then it went to well spirituality and religion are two different things, you don’t have to believe in God to be spiritual…. Now it’s Introspect and Psychic possibilities and soon everyone will be sitting in a Psychic circle with Sam Harris chanting Oooommm in the name of neuroscience while trying to conjure their inner god and goddess.  Moreover, you call Christians deluded and brainwashed.  Are you kidding me?  Like lambs to the slaughterhouse.  It’s amazing how you say it is I who is following blindly. 

People who worry about such things might be better off submitting to a dogmatic belief system.

 
As if Sam’s beliefs and now those who follow him aren’t dogmatic.  LM@O

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Posted: 11 January 2007 05:10 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 143 ]  
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[quote author=“aaeoni”][quote author=“burt”][quote author=“aaeoni”]

  I genuinely urge all of those seeking to embark on a Journey into this form of enlightenment to please do the research on the “known” dangers.  I understand you have respect for Sam Harris for coming out and attacking religion publicly but his future path does not reflect your belief in his beliefs.

There are certainly side effects of kundalini exercises that have to be watched for, although not generally so serious as you have made it sound.

I have not made it sound any different than it is.  The side effects listed on Wikipedia are not my writings.  I guess the possibility of death and psychosis are not serious enough for you.

You are so melodramatic.  You could die fasting for Lent.  Take anything to an extreme and you are in trouble.  Personally I have known many people who have engaged in a number of spiritual exercises with no problem at all.  On the other hand, there are things to be said, as below:

The basic fact is that kundalini energy can release various repressed experiences, fixations, fascinations, and so on as well as energize unhealthy aspects of the psyche that have not been processed and dealt with.  So can various other forms of meditation and even intense Christian prayer.  In other words, if a person in going into any sort of self-realization process using powerful psychic techniques then had best do so under the instruction of an expert, and be well stabilized in their personal life.

 

All this says is that anybody who is psychically unbalanced ought not to participate in any form of exercise that will become an obcession for them.  That is where the danger comes about.  A body builder faces the same danger—too much effort and not enough self-awareness and they can seriously damage themselves by trying too much too soon.

By Experts, do you mean the Buddhist monks (or those who have been trained by one)? You act as if they will of course not try to persuade an student to conform to their belief system.  I can see the changes within peoples beliefs on this forum just by reading the recent posts.  Most started out there is no God and all religions of the world are crazy…. then it went to there is no physical proof of God and science is the only rational…. then it went to well spirituality and religion are two different things, you don’t have to believe in God to be spiritual…. Now it’s Introspect and Psychic possibilities and soon everyone will be sitting in a Psychic circle with Sam Harris chanting Oooommm in the name of neuroscience while trying to conjure their inner god and goddess.  Moreover, you call Christians deluded and brainwashed.  Are you kidding me?  Like lambs to the slaughterhouse.  It’s amazing how you say it is I who is following blindly.

I would certainly expect that ligitimate Buddhist monks would be qualified to direct Buddhist meditation exercises, qualified yoga instructors would be good teachers of yoga, just as a Catholic priest would be the best instructor in Catholic prayer.  Why are you so upset, do you not have any respect for others individuality and feel that you must try to convince everybody that only Christianity is the true way?  If that is the case, I would suggest that it is your faith that is weak.  The true Christians that I know have never attacked other religions or spiritual paths. 

People who worry about such things might be better off submitting to a dogmatic belief system.

 

As if Sam’s beliefs and now those who follow him aren’t dogmatic.  LM@O

In my view, most athiests are just as dogmatic as you appear to be.

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Posted: 11 January 2007 10:17 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 144 ]  
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[quote author=“aaeoni”]...As if Sam’s beliefs and now those who follow him aren’t dogmatic.  LM@O

Does Sam have “followers” who view him as the equivalent of a guru or High Priest of Atheism or as an authority on something?  If so, that is sad.  I certainly would never quote him as some sort of authority on anything.  It is just that his arguments are sound or they are not.  I have merely read his books and think he made a good case for religionists to rethink their dogmatism about any particular myth being historical fact, and he does a good job of pointing out the inherent illogic of monotheistic belief systems.  Plus I think of my self as an agnostic atheist – atheist in practice, agnostic in theory.

So, if there can be such a thing as a “good” atheist vs. a “bad” atheist then do I qualify for the former or would you consign me to the latter?  If the latter, then what penance, in your opinion, must I perform to be accepted into the “good” group?

[quote author=“burt”]...In my view, most athiests are just as dogmatic as you appear to be.

Firstly, it is spelled “atheist”.  Secondly, I can only imagine most atheists are dogmatists, if they indeed are, based simply on the fact that most people seem to rather dogmatic.  Thirdly, even if they are, which is not a good thing, such has no bearing on the truth, would you not agree?  So, fourthly, we all need to be more open ended on abstract questions of ontology and less dogmatic, and focus on the issues, e.g., what is reasonable about assuming the existence of a Zeus-like god, ditto about a deistic god, questions of science regarding the mind/brain question, and so forth.  And fifth, if we must use the word “atheist” then it would REALLY help if everyone would make the effect to spell the word correctly, i.e., I find attacks on the “athiests” disconcerting as I don’t know whether I should be offended or not.  :D

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Posted: 11 January 2007 10:40 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 145 ]  
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[quote author=“JGL57”]. . . if we must use the word “atheist” then it would REALLY help if everyone would make the effect to spell the word correctly, i.e., I find attacks on the “athiests” disconcerting as I don’t know whether I should be offended or not.  :D

I was just lamenting this tonight while posting. I leap on anyone who spells it ‘athiest’—I think we’ve determined there’s a village in Ireland called Athy, which might allow you to call yourself the Athiest (amongst your fellow Athies)—but I am constantly misspelling the Christian label. I type Chrisitian, Christain, Cristian, Chirstian. . . it’s been like this all my life. Same with Christmas. I’ve ruined untold number of Christmas cards writing it out wrong.

Mild dyslexia, maybe? Mental block?. . . Satan :shock:? I can only a guess it was a harbinger of infidel-ity to come. My inner spellchecker was trying to tell me something.

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Posted: 12 January 2007 07:24 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 146 ]  
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[quote author=“Mia”]Mild dyslexia, maybe? Mental block?. . . Satan :shock:? I can only a guess it was a harbinger of infidel-ity to come. My inner spellchecker was trying to tell me something.

I consistently type"englightenment” and “sould” and have to correct myself.  But it doesn’t happen when I write…. Then again, my writing is illegible even to me.

???

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