Is Zeus the best comparison?
Posted: 20 October 2006 07:53 AM   [ Ignore ]  
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When Sam point's out Zeus's existance as equally probable/improbable with Yaweh's - as he often does - and that noone can disprove the existance of Zeus, couldn't it be said that since humans have scaled Mt. Olympus and found it void of all divinity, it is more improbable to beleive in Zeus than it is to beleive in Yaweh? I understand that among the dead gods, Zeus is proabably the most well known, but I think there are better examples to use because sooner or later some smug fundie is gonna fire back with a story about praying from the peak of Mt. Olympus while on vacation in Greece and only finding Jesus there.

I always say stuff like " the existance of god is just as improbable as the existance of fairies or Giant Mermaids patrolling the Meridian trench - noones ever disproven their existance, but there's no reason to think they exist."

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Posted: 20 October 2006 07:45 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]  
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[quote author=“TheSkiba”]When Sam point’s out Zeus’s existance as equally probable/improbable with Yaweh’s - as he often does - and that noone can disprove the existance of Zeus, couldn’t it be said that since humans have scaled Mt. Olympus and found it void of all divinity, it is more improbable to beleive in Zeus than it is to beleive in Yaweh? I understand that among the dead gods, Zeus is proabably the most well known, but I think there are better examples to use because sooner or later some smug fundie is gonna fire back with a story about praying from the peak of Mt. Olympus while on vacation in Greece and only finding Jesus there.

I always say stuff like ” the existance of god is just as improbable as the existance of fairies or Giant Mermaids patrolling the Meridian trench - noones ever disproven their existance, but there’s no reason to think they exist.”

I prefer Poseidon, given the mass amounts of climate change, hurricanes, tsunamis and earthquakes…he may be on to something….anyone prayed to Poseidon of late?

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Get with it. Millions of galaxies of hundreds of millions of stars, and a speck on one in a blink. That’s us, lost in space. The cop, you, me… Who notices?
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Posted: 22 October 2006 01:35 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]  
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Not Poseidon exactly….I much prefer Inanna and the Sumerian Dieties.

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Posted: 24 October 2006 07:56 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]  
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[quote author=“TheSkiba”]I understand that among the dead gods, Zeus is proabably the most well known, but I think there are better examples to use because sooner or later some smug fundie is gonna fire back with a story about praying from the peak of Mt. Olympus while on vacation in Greece and only finding Jesus there.

Zeus dead? Are you guys living on another planet? Mercury, Venus, Mars, Uranus, Saturn, Neptun and Pluto still control our lives through astrology. Jesus doesn’t even have his own planet, or a star.

Thomas Orr

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Posted: 24 October 2006 09:12 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]  
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[quote author=“Thomas Orr”]
Zeus dead? Are you guys living on another planet? Mercury, Venus, Mars, Uranus, Saturn, Neptun and Pluto still control our lives through astrology. Jesus doesn’t even have his own planet, or a star.

Thomas Orr

Thomas, aren’t you aware that Jesus was considered a symbol for the Sun in the astrological allegory of the gospels?  Supposedly, John the Baptist was Aquarius, Pontius Pilate was Sagittarius, but Jesus was the Sun.  So, according to the gnostics, at least, he DID have his own star.

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Posted: 24 October 2006 10:42 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]  
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[quote author=“ModernHeretic”]Thomas, aren’t you aware that Jesus was considered a symbol for the Sun in the astrological allegory of the gospels? Supposedly, John the Baptist was Aquarius, Pontius Pilate was Sagittarius, but Jesus was the Sun. So, according to the gnostics, at least, he DID have his own star.

To my knowledge the only fully fledged astrological allegory in the New Testament is The Revelation or Apocalypse.

As for the Jesus’s zodiac sign it is Pisces. Christians display the sign of fish not knowing that they praise astrology. The proper way to beat them showing them their place in the gods’ pecking order is not with the Darwin fish but with the sign of Aquarius.

Aquarius is ruled by Uranus who is the god (in astrology) of many things; revolution, scientific discovery and ... sexual perversion among them. No wonder Christians are homophobic and hate science and progress.

The great enemy of Jesus is Lucifer who gave rise to Eastern Religions and philosophies some 4,000 years ago. Depiction of Lucifer as enemy of mankind is nothing but vicious propaganda spread by the Liers of the Bible. However, when the Age of Pisces is over Lucifer will be rehabilitated. What would you rather choose? Pisces ruled by Neptune with their tendency to superstition, unsubstantiated beliefs and addictive personalities or progressive Uranus honoring the light spreading Lucifer? Christians hate Sam Harris not only because he praises atheism by also because he rehabilitates Oriental tradition of meditation and introspection.

Thanks for bringing up the subject of gnostics. Whatever we think about those fellas I prefer their company to that of boring Christians. Gnostics were killed by Christians but to the Christians’ utter annoyance they are coming back with Harry Potter, New Age, The Da Vinci Code and Conversations with God - to name but a few.

Thomas Orr

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Posted: 24 October 2006 12:53 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]  
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Well there is a post in the ‘General Disscussion’ section with a link to an interview w/ Sam and another philospher and when Sam brings up the Zeus comparison the guy fires back that Zues is unprovable by cameras placed at the top of Mt. Olympus. The post is titled “new Sam harris interview” or something similar.

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Posted: 25 October 2006 12:06 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]  
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zeus does seem like a rather apt comparison - many greeks believed in him, he’s portrayed as an old guy with a beard like Yahweh, and he fathered a son with a human, he had a violent temper…

i think Sam uses this reference because it works - it’s a name that most are familar with and can immediately graps the concept of being atheist with respect to zeus, yet at the same time understand he was a revered god at one time. 

some of the others are just a little esoteric and might not resoate with the mass audience.

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Posted: 25 October 2006 03:23 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]  
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Damn it…Poseidon is ascendent…he is the GOD and Sam is his messager…

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Get with it. Millions of galaxies of hundreds of millions of stars, and a speck on one in a blink. That’s us, lost in space. The cop, you, me… Who notices?
-Vincent

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Posted: 01 November 2006 11:50 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]  
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One theory is that YHWH was the god of the mountains. He does seem to dwell there a lot.  We have been a top all those mountains and have seen to YHWH’s to date.

Another theory was that god and his angels lived in the sky amongst the clouds. We’ve flown through the clouds and no gods.

With the help of the greeks the christians moved their god into a timeless realm of of existence where He couldn’t be bothered. However, their bible doesnt talk of a timeless god, it speaks of a transendant god in this world they make up the rest of it.

We also know when they made up their texts, and who their god was before he was pressed into service as their god. For example, what happened to YHWH’s consort? where is asherah? you never hear about her anymore but she’s in the bible and archeological sites attest to her having been worshiped widely. And baal. Baal was a brother god in a pantheon of gods of which YHWH sat on a council with. We know the cult of YWHW didnt take over until the late 700s and so on.

Really we know so much about the bible, YWHW and Jesus that there is nothing there that is mysterious and left to chance.

YHWH is just like Zeus.

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Posted: 01 November 2006 12:52 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]  
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I think a comparison between Yahweh and the Zoroastrian god Ahura Mazda makes more sense. Probably Ahura Mazda’s most famous follower, the Persian King Darius I the Great (522 to 486 BCE), published a testimony of this god’s power in his life at Behistun:

http://www.livius.org/be-bm/behistun/behistun03.html

http://www.loguk.com/life/images/faravahar.jpg

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