Sam Harris

I’m glad you didn’t take offense at my comment. I might have made my point with a story:

Pierre’s friends find him sitting beside the Seine, moaning and moaning. They ask him what’s wrong. He says “See that wonderful bridge over the river? I, Pierre, designed that bridge but do people call me Pierre the Bridge Builder? See that great skyscraper over there? I designed that building, but do people call me Pierre the Great Architect? NO! But s—- one lousy c—-!”

The story isn’t exactly apropos since Pierre was no hypocrite. Anyway, even though my crystal ball is cloudy, I agree with you on this: Rev. Ted is not likely to escape either his homosexual component or his guilt about it, however much he struggles to suppress it. If he starts hollering “I’m cured! I’m cured! Righteously straight forever more, praise the Lord!” I’d say to him “Oh, b.s. You might think you have your yearnings under control, but they are still there and you may enjoy them again.”

[quote author=“Skipshot”]Some apology. . .  He apologized for his “sins” while at the same time tacitly continuing to condemn homosexuality.  He gave his church free reign to continue persecuting gays by calling his actions “sinful”.  I would much prefer a confession of his homosexual acts while at the same time apologizing to homosexuals for his hypocritical persecution of them.

Exactly right! You might add a call to end persecution of homosexuals by his church. They will extend “grace” to Rev. Ted but not to the people they persecute. Even though Rev. Ted is guilty not only of the false horror of homosexuality but the true horror of IMMENSE hypocrisy.

It’s interesting to read through this thread. You see the Champ and FrankR focused on the terrible homosexuality where the rest of us are more fascinated by the incredible deceit.

Kinda interesting to see how a bunch of atheists sort our their morals. Very carefully.

[quote author=“TheChampion”]My heart was truly broken for this man’s family. But one good thing about Christianity is that he can someday get restored. We’re not like hollywood, we don’t eat our own children. We’ll pray for this guy, counsel him, and someday he can be restored as a man of God. Maybe not a leader of a church, but he can be a leader in the church, perhaps a deacon or something. Maybe the pastor of a church somewhere.

maybe the Catholics will take him.

I just have to get this off of my chest.  I don’t care if Ted Haggard is gay, snorted meth, and lied about it.  But here I am, 58 years olds and a lifelong atheist and I have never had a massage (by a man or a woman), snorted meth, or lied to my wife about an illicit affair.  In fact, it turns out that, based on my actual behavior, I am a better Xian than Ted Haggard.  If that doesn’t put hypocrisy in perspective, I don’t know what does.

Or, maybe I’m just jealous.

[quote author=“Salt Creek”]As we aviators like to say, any landing you can walk away from is a successful one! 

I’ve heard: A good landing is one you can walk away from.  A great landing is one where you can use the plane again.

eucaryote wrote,

    ” Exactly right! You might add a call to end persecution of homosexuals by his church “

Haggard almost made homosexuality seem as bad as murder or aggravated assault, “yes, i commited that evil act and I’m terribly sorry (the devil really is out there and look what he made me do!)”  Another incident where the religious person takes merely a mitigated responsibility for his own actions.  Clearly he enjoyed the gay sexual encounters (going back more than thirty times is not like simply “making a mistake).”  Add to that the fact that the majority of his sheeple have already forgiven him for his “transgressions” and his deceit, and there is hardly any need to take full responsibility.  When they all believe in an “agent of evil” lurking in the shadows and tricking them to commit some heinous crime (hypocrisy and infidelity), what sense of responsibility for their actions is left?  If that’s some kind of substantial moral code, it’s a darn weak and impotent one.

It’s no wonder that religious people make the best soldiers, the best mafia, the best murderers, the best criminals . . . because they can kill people all afternoon and then go home and tuck their children into bed, sing them a sweet lullaby, and kiss them goodnight, then go to their beds and sleep soundly. (BTW I’m sure Haggard came home and carried on like a loving parent the whole way through - and he’s doing the same tonight!)

Bob