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The Cult of Evolutionists
Posted: 07 December 2007 12:23 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 151 ]  
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Unbeliever - 06 December 2007 01:33 PM

If you honestly think that evolution is a lie, and that it is not supported by evidence, you have not looked into the evidence.

Hee hee….excellent point you’ve made! By jove!

Unbeliever - 06 December 2007 01:33 PM

The theory of evolution is perhaps one of the most robust theories of modern science. Its perhaps even more strong than the theory of gravity, or the big bang theory. The germ theory of disease and the quantum theory are perhaps the only scientific theories that are backed up by even more data.

You’ve now dampered my enthusiasm. Shirley, you can’t serious? More robust than gravity? You just said it was not supported by evidence, now you are saying…..what one would believe is that, science is a sham?

Unbeliever - 06 December 2007 01:33 PM

There are many things we do not know and understand about the evolution of life on this planet. We know how life evolved….. .

Evolved? That is not a term that I can quantify when it comes to ‘In the beginning….’

Unbeliever - 06 December 2007 01:33 PM

but there are many questions left within the gaps…

Like, how a child instinctively knows the difference between good and evil? Lets see evolution try THAT one on for size. Evolution is about evoluing physical matter, but we are talking conscience, spiritual, etc., not physical. BINGO….evolution, debunked (and those are two words that should be mutually INCLUSIVE)

Unbeliever - 06 December 2007 01:33 PM

I dont understand how you can possibly argue that having a book, which have never changed is a good thing. Any text that claims to explain how things work, but which is not subject to revision is a bad one.

Wellllll, we are not talking about a book really, we’re talking about God’s holy, unchanging word. Try reading it, you’ll find food for your soul, redemption for your transgressions, a pardon for everything you were guilty of, mercy, compassion, blessing, my oh my, your cup would runneth over. But ya gotta read, wink

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Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light. Matt 11:28-29

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Posted: 07 December 2007 03:07 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 152 ]  
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TheChampion - 07 December 2007 05:23 AM
Unbeliever - 06 December 2007 01:33 PM

but there are many questions left within the gaps…

Like, how a child instinctively knows the difference between good and evil? Lets see evolution try THAT one on for size.

Evolution doesn’t need to explain that, because it isn’t true. We need to teach our children what is good and evil. They don’t know it instinctively. Leave children on their own, fail to teach them, and they become little monsters that grow up to be criminals. Thats one of the reasons we have a growing crime rate in America, a progressivist education system that is based in part on the idea that there is no absolute right and wrong (ethical relativism), and a criminal justice system that is working more and more on the belief that crime is not the fault of the criminal, but has external, social causes.

Read Robert Bidinotto’s Devil’s Advocates

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“The three great rights are so bound together as to be essentially one right. To give a man his life, but deny him his liberty, is to take from him all that makes his life worth living. To give him his liberty, but take from him the property which is the fruit and badge of his liberty, is to still leave him a slave.”

- George Sutherland, Associate Justice of the United States Supreme Court, 1921.

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Posted: 07 December 2007 07:52 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 153 ]  
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SaulDeOhio - 07 December 2007 08:07 AM
TheChampion - 07 December 2007 05:23 AM
Unbeliever - 06 December 2007 01:33 PM

but there are many questions left within the gaps…

Like, how a child instinctively knows the difference between good and evil? Lets see evolution try THAT one on for size.

Evolution doesn’t need to explain that, because it isn’t true. We need to teach our children what is good and evil. They don’t know it instinctively. Leave children on their own, fail to teach them, and they become little monsters that grow up to be criminals. Thats one of the reasons we have a growing crime rate in America, a progressivist education system that is based in part on the idea that there is no absolute right and wrong (ethical relativism), and a criminal justice system that is working more and more on the belief that crime is not the fault of the criminal, but has external, social causes.

Read Robert Bidinotto’s Devil’s Advocates

Oh no no no, you are quite incorrect. You logic is very displeasing, indeed. Children indeed instinctively know good and evil and a whole lot of other stuff. BUT…you guys said that we were animals. If true, then should not children, if left on their on (as you state), should not children mimic animals? OOOOOH hoooo! (got ya) But, contriare, a child knows when he/she is naked and would instinctively feel ashamed if out in public naked (think Adman and Eve….hee hee, now we’re getting somewhere!), unlike all “animals” on the planet, human beings have a ‘conscience bearing witness to the glory of God’, with God’s laws ‘written on their heart’ so they are without excuse on the day of judgement. For it is appointed unto all men to die, but after that, the judgement.

Hence, the work continues - to ‘redirect’ the scientific efforts of man into a template pleasing to the Almighty, of which man and only benefit (know what I mean).

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Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light. Matt 11:28-29

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Posted: 07 December 2007 08:24 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 154 ]  
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You’ve now dampered my enthusiasm. Shirley, you can’t serious? More robust than gravity? You just said it was not supported by evidence, now you are saying…..what one would believe is that, science is a sham?

Yes you know, the theory of gravity is called that because its a scientific theory, just like its called the theory of evolution or the theory of relativity. Evolution is just as supported by data as the theory of gravity. Generally people arguing against evolution are misinterpreting the meaning of the word theory. And I did not say that evolution or gravity was unsupported by evidence, I have really tried but I dont see how you read that out of my statement.
Both gravity and evolution are scientific theories, my comparison was to indicate that at this point, it is about as likely that evolution is wrong as for gravity to be wrong. THAT is how supported the theory is, and hopefully that would make you pause before calling it a lie without looking into it.

Evolved? That is not a term that I can quantify when it comes to ‘In the beginning….’

Absolutely right, the absolute beginning of life can not be explained trough evolution, so guess what? It does not have anything to do with the theory of evolution. The beginning of life requires another scientific theory. Now this is something you really need to understand. Unlike religion, science is not a one answer to everything, one scientific theory is not meant to explain EVERYTHING, evolution explains the way life has made it from the first simple organisms to todays advanced life forms. The beginning of life is something completely different. There are many interesting ideas on this topic, we do not have a scientific theory yet but we will get there.

Like, how a child instinctively knows the difference between good and evil? Lets see evolution try THAT one on for size. Evolution is about evoluing physical matter, but we are talking conscience, spiritual, etc., not physical. BINGO….evolution, debunked (and those are two words that should be mutually INCLUSIVE)

You cannot possibly be living in such a black and white world. Let me see if I got this right, you believe that if evolution can not explain conscience, it all has to be thrown out? Now, this is really irrelevant in response to this particular question though because while we are not quite there yet when we can explain conscience in detail, conscience and mental processes which seem very immaterial are obviously products of the physical brain. Evolution does very much in a way give insights into these matters because we can see the difference in mental capacity between us and other animals and we can track the evolution of our brain and our mental capacity.
Even so though, its not for evolution to explain why and how it works per say, evolution can answer how the brain evolved to the point where conscience is possible. Neuroscience takes over from there to explain how it actually works.

Wellllll, we are not talking about a book really, we’re talking about God’s holy, unchanging word. Try reading it, you’ll find food for your soul, redemption for your transgressions, a pardon for everything you were guilty of, mercy, compassion, blessing, my oh my, your cup would runneth over. But ya gotta read, wink

Yees we are very much talking about a book, we are talking about a book that CLAIMS to be containing the word of god. So its a book, we can not verify if it is the word of god or not, there are countless books that makes the same claims. By what standard are you concluding that it actually is the word of god and not just a book?

And news flash, I have read it. Yes, every single page. I’ve read the Qu’ran too for that matter. Page by page, I know what is said in this holy book of yours, and other holy texts.
Its amazing to me how often I get this reply, in every debate I am in I am told to go read the book, and the religious person just assumes that if I just read it, I will change my mind. Is it really so hard to see that someone might read it, and conclude that its not likely to be true? Especially with the countless books making the same claim?

You talk about compassion, mercy and lots of other fine words. It just proves to me that I am probably the only one of us actually reading the bible in a metaphorical sense. You are reading it, and you are only registering the things that sound good, and it enforces your conception of the greatness of the book. I read passages of forgiveness and compassion. I also read passages about moral infancy, about cruelty and horror and vengeance and jealousy.

Finally, I am not guilty of anything. As a Christian you must live with the idea that every person is guilty of something from their birth, without actually doing anything. This is a truly immoral philosophy that I frankly cannot understand why you would put yourself trough. Then you seek to get rid of this guild trough Jesus, when all you need to do is to build your self esteem and realize that you are not guilty of anything that you have not done yourself.

Trust me, you are not guilty when you are born, you are innocent. Believe in yourself, and your ability to always strive to be a better human being. That is all you need.

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Posted: 07 December 2007 08:26 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 155 ]  
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TheChampion - 07 December 2007 12:52 PM
SaulDeOhio - 07 December 2007 08:07 AM

We need to teach our children what is good and evil. They don’t know it instinctively. Leave children on their own, fail to teach them, and they become little monsters that grow up to be criminals. Thats one of the reasons we have a growing crime rate in America, a progressivist education system that is based in part on the idea that there is no absolute right and wrong (ethical relativism), and a criminal justice system that is working more and more on the belief that crime is not the fault of the criminal, but has external, social causes.

Read Robert Bidinotto’s Devil’s Advocates

Oh no no no, you are quite incorrect. You logic is very displeasing, indeed. Children indeed instinctively know good and evil and a whole lot of other stuff. BUT…you guys said that we were animals. If true, then should not children, if left on their on (as you state), should not children mimic animals? OOOOOH hoooo! (got ya) But, contriare, a child knows when he/she is naked and would instinctively feel ashamed if out in public naked (think Adman and Eve….hee hee, now we’re getting somewhere!),

No. Very young children are very unashamed of being au natural in public. I’ve seen it at the beach. Toddlers get free of their clothes, they run around in their birthday suits like they have no care in the world. It takes time and carefull teaching to get children to eventually be (needlessly) ashamed of their bodies. You keep making claims of fact that are easy to demonstrate false. Ask anyone who has been a parent.

[ Edited: 07 December 2007 08:38 AM by SaulDeOhio]
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“The three great rights are so bound together as to be essentially one right. To give a man his life, but deny him his liberty, is to take from him all that makes his life worth living. To give him his liberty, but take from him the property which is the fruit and badge of his liberty, is to still leave him a slave.”

- George Sutherland, Associate Justice of the United States Supreme Court, 1921.

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Posted: 07 December 2007 01:20 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 156 ]  
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TheChampion - 07 December 2007 12:52 PM

But, contriare, a child knows when he/she is naked and would instinctively feel ashamed if out in public naked.

Now that’s just plain stupid.

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Posted: 08 December 2007 03:52 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 157 ]  
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Jefe - 07 December 2007 07:01 PM

You know…I keep getting this inclination to reply directly to champ’s braggadocio, and then never hit post.

I’m harmless actually, and enjoy hearing from you, regardless if it is negative or positive.

Jefe - 07 December 2007 07:01 PM

One thing about the so-described “cult of evolution” even those who are not followers or proponents are experiencing real and practical benefit from developments that improve countless people’s lives every day.

I would beg to differ. Evolution offers nothing to the individual, right? I mean, no comfort, no afterlife, no seeing your relatives again someday, no meaning, nothing. What is the benefit?

Jefe - 07 December 2007 07:01 PM

Sick people suffer less and get better faster due to improved medical knowledge and techniques that are directly attributable to the theory of evolution and its practical application.

Well no, Christians pray to get well, but readily accept the latest medical advances for healing purposes. I do not see what connection there is for medical R&D;in regard to evoluton. Sounds mutually exclusive.

Jefe - 07 December 2007 07:01 PM

Previously hungry people in many parts of the world eat more and eat better now due improved agriculture and strains of sustenance crops that are directly attributable to the theory of evolution and its practical application.

If you are referring to ‘only the fittest survive’ or something similar, that would be pulling a rabbit out of your hat. You are attaching evolution to a successful application. But I can assure you, the authors of the research did not think evolution when they mapped their plan of action. I INSIST, that you have attached a successful application to evolution, and convieniently left off the many dead ends and agricultural R&D;failures. In effect, you’ve gone circular! (indeed, and no one can win against a circular argument, but the argument speaks volumes about the motives of the owner, wink )

Jefe - 07 December 2007 07:01 PM

Animal Husbandry and related benefits to the day-to-day lives of real people in a number of countries around the world can be directly attributed to the theory of evolution and its practical application.

Hello? Come again? Are you going to attribute the success of the New England Patriots to evolution as well, everything else seems to be?

Jefe - 07 December 2007 07:01 PM

So doubt away champ, but those people who are eating because of agricultural breakthroughs derived from evolutionary theory are still not going hungry, but those people who’s illnesses are alleviated or cured by medicines directly derived from practical application of evolutionary theory are still being made well, and those benefits derived in animal husbandry are still making people’s lives better all over the world - thanks to the practical application of science derived from the theory of evolution.

Jefe, your college professors would be so proud. Their brainwashing technigues actually worked to maximum effect. You are a proud, certified member of the Evolution Cult. No human who puts his ‘faith’ in mans logic would deny you membership.

(but we’ll talk later, you know, some great day when you are laying on your deathbed, knowingly separated from God and full of sorrowful repentance, ya, you’ll be forgiven - just like the thief on the cross was just before his demise, God’s grace is amazingly powerful and its your to grab onto as long as you breathing, but the question I will have for you would be, was it worth it? All those years believing in something that gave you no dignity, no inherent rights?????)

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Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light. Matt 11:28-29

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Posted: 29 December 2007 10:13 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 158 ]  
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Jefe - 10 December 2007 12:22 PM

Thanks for furthering my point by displaying a profound ignorance when it comes to the practical applications of evolutionary biology.

Profound?

‘Practical applications of evolutionary biology’? I believe equating a successful application with evolutionary biology is a false premise. If the application does not work, it is not equated with evolutionary biology. If it does, it is. Don’t make it right.

The cult of evolutionists will try anything to advance their cause.

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Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light. Matt 11:28-29

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Posted: 30 December 2007 05:24 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 159 ]  
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http://www.samharris.org/forum/viewthread/8135/

This may be a good way to start all over Campeón. It is about time to stop looking like TheLooser

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“Life is the COEXISTENCE of opposites values”
Love is Forgiveness
Peace is Tolerance
“In the beginning Man created God according to his own image and understanding. Over the years as Men understanding of morality, violence and tolerance evolves, so evolves our understanding of a Loving God”.

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Posted: 30 December 2007 07:26 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 160 ]  
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Jefe - 07 December 2007 07:01 PM

You know…I keep getting this inclination to reply directly to champ’s braggadocio, and then never hit post.

I know how you feel, I also constantly get the urge to reply to him, not for his sake but for lurkers who might be reading discussions here who could use to see what his arguments are worth.

I never manage to finish an entire reply though because the ignorance and arrogance of his posts are so overwhelming that replying to all of it is like being swept over by a giant tidal wave of liquid stupid.

Its a person who is arrogant enough to think that he personally and by reading a book knows more about the real world than all the scientists that have ever lived and devoted their lives to studying and learning.
He is arrogant enough to think that he knows the mind of the creator of the universe, arrogant enough to “know” that he exists, arrogant enough to “know” our feelings and intentions better than us.

He is ignorant enough to attack their arguments without having ever read them, never understood them.

He is aggressive enough to try to sway us with death cult propaganda, he is ignorant enough to be a person who will not take any kind of evidence into his world view and then he attacks others claiming they believe in things on faith.

To put it simply his posts symbolize the core of Christian thinking, its a massive cesspool of hatefulness.
He is a morally bankrupt person who has no other joy in his meaningless existence than to rejoice over how greatly rewarded his pointless existence will be when he dies, and a morally bankrupt person who rubs his hand in hateful glee over either the eternal punishment of those who are not like him or
over their to him perceived imminent submission to his slave master

I’m sorry champ but your perverted fantasy of atheists wallowing in their own regret and throwing away their dignity for the celestial dictator is not likely to happen.
But don’t stop thinking about it, or you would have nothing to jack off too.

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Posted: 30 December 2007 05:34 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 161 ]  
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It’s too bad the chump’s father didn’t jack-off instead of boinking his mother.

(anyone else notice this thread began in 2005 and this dogmabot hasn’t changed a wit.)

Enjoyed the read though!

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Posted: 30 December 2007 11:11 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 162 ]  
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Unbeliever - 30 December 2007 12:26 PM
Jefe - 07 December 2007 07:01 PM

You know…I keep getting this inclination to reply directly to champ’s braggadocio, and then never hit post.

I know how you feel, I also constantly get the urge to reply to him, not for his sake but for lurkers who might be reading discussions here who could use to see what his arguments are worth.

I never manage to finish an entire reply though because the ignorance and arrogance of his posts are so overwhelming that replying to all of it is like being swept over by a giant tidal wave of liquid stupid.

Its a person who is arrogant enough to think that he personally and by reading a book knows more about the real world than all the scientists that have ever lived and devoted their lives to studying and learning.
He is arrogant enough to think that he knows the mind of the creator of the universe, arrogant enough to “know” that he exists, arrogant enough to “know” our feelings and intentions better than us.

He is ignorant enough to attack their arguments without having ever read them, never understood them.

He is aggressive enough to try to sway us with death cult propaganda, he is ignorant enough to be a person who will not take any kind of evidence into his world view and then he attacks others claiming they believe in things on faith.

To put it simply his posts symbolize the core of Christian thinking, its a massive cesspool of hatefulness.
He is a morally bankrupt person who has no other joy in his meaningless existence than to rejoice over how greatly rewarded his pointless existence will be when he dies, and a morally bankrupt person who rubs his hand in hateful glee over either the eternal punishment of those who are not like him or
over their to him perceived imminent submission to his slave master

I’m sorry champ but your perverted fantasy of atheists wallowing in their own regret and throwing away their dignity for the celestial dictator is not likely to happen.
But don’t stop thinking about it, or you would have nothing to jack off too.

Eloquently put, ole boy. I am quite sorry if the message you perceive is arrogance. I am not that way at tall, however, put me on a computer and I can grow bold. You know, I generate content on this forum from the foundational belief that I have found something, something the world is looking for. And that something has a core of love, not hatefulness. And that love and mercy is extended to all human beings at the same time, with the same measure.

So do forgive my discretionary judgement calls on science and other matters. I do not claim to be an expert, rather, I would say that I am a very weak person, in much need of a savior. And these are the very weaknesses upon which I boast about, because when I’m weak, he is strong, so let me be all the weaker and allow him to be my strength. wink

And a very happy new year is extended to all atheists and intellectuals. We’ll have lots of time for more fun in 2008. But the present moment is a time of reflection. grin

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Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light. Matt 11:28-29

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Posted: 31 March 2008 08:08 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 163 ]  
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Jefe - 31 December 2007 12:43 PM
TheChampion - 30 December 2007 03:13 AM
Jefe - 10 December 2007 12:22 PM

Thanks for furthering my point by displaying a profound ignorance when it comes to the practical applications of evolutionary biology.

Profound?

Yes. 

If you persist in denying the useful every-day life saving science in agriculture, animal husbandry, and medicine that are directly attributable to study of evolution, then you are engaging in willful and profound ignorance.

No, we take advantage of every application science can give us. However, we dismiss the unproven theories that science perpetuates on the children of mankind. Simple as that.

The effect of the cult of evolutionists must be curbed by teaching Creationism and putting disclaimers on anything ‘evolution’ that ridicule the flimsy collection of data used to perpetuate the theory. The theory was hogwash from the beginning. Now it is an excuse for mankind to kill each other and for science teachers (and many others) to have sex outside of marriage while attempting to block the instinctive guilt that occurs afterward. Guilt that occurs because man sins against God (and no one other) when he sins.

Evolution takes a willing participant by the hand and tells gives him an excuse to do anything, because he tells the man that he is simple a twig…., an animal that evolved off from a branch of primates, or whatever.

Hey, question, how can we allow evolution to be taught in our schools when it conflicts with the Declaration of Independence and our US Constitution? Just asking…..

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Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light. Matt 11:28-29

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Posted: 31 March 2008 11:02 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 164 ]  
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Evolution takes a willing participant by the hand and tells gives him an excuse to do anything, because he tells the man that he is simple a twig…., an animal that evolved off from a branch of primates, or whatever.

Where does one start with this statement?

Evolution takes a willing participant by the hand and tells gives him an excuse to do anything,

Champion, Evolution is a theory about a process, not a club, a cult or religion.  It is also not an anthropomorphic being capable of telling anybody anything (it lives on paper in books).  If you are suggesting that people’s behaviors are in some way changed because of their knowledge, then say so; I would be very interested for you to even show us one example of this ever happening.

because he tells the man that he is simple a twig….,

Who is he?

Many here would show you some respect for your inflammatory rhetoric if you could show them that you had actually read anything about the theory of evolution and could combat the scientific evidence with other credible evidence…in fact they would welcome you putting this whole issue to bed.

You should be ashamed trying to represent how our children should be educated when you can not even write a sentence with correct grammar.  Champion, you do more to help our cause than your own.

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Posted: 31 March 2008 10:17 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 165 ]  
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LogicAndReason - 31 March 2008 03:02 PM

Many here would show you some respect for your inflammatory rhetoric if you could show them that you had actually read anything about the theory of evolution and could combat the scientific evidence with other credible evidence…in fact they would welcome you putting this whole issue to bed.

Inflammatory rhetoric? Since when is disagreeing with the status quo inflammatory rhetoric? I guess it depends on the ‘deliverer.’ I would consider an evolution teacher to be spouting inflammatory rhetoric, lol.

LogicAndReason - 31 March 2008 03:02 PM

You should be ashamed trying to represent how our children should be educated when you can not even write a sentence with correct grammar.  Champion, you do more to help our cause than your own.

I would be ashamed to stand before God knowing I never spoke out against something that violates my conscience. I am a contentious objector to evolution. Like the founding fathers of America, I buck the trend, I stand for God, etc., and so forth.

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Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light. Matt 11:28-29

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