Sam Harris

Christ is the fulfillment of the OT. So the OT retains its importance. However, from this point on, we are to be followers of Christ and strive to be perfect, difficult as it is. Course, nobody is perfect and that is why we need our savior Jesus Christ.

That’s a pretty slippery answer!  The OT retains it’s “importance?”  What does that mean, exactly?  How important is it?  I am not baiting, Champion, I am trying to explore.

Take that passage I quoted above.  It is very explicit, and leaves no wiggle room.  If this happens, do that!  It is very plain.  What am I to make of it?  I would’nt have the grandchildren I have if I had followed this passage, no one would, and yet it is there!  Why is it there, if not to be followed?

Do you mean I can take my (your) religion cafeteria style?  Take what I want and leave the rest?  This is only one horrible passage, there are many others, as you know.  What shall we do with them?  Are you saying, as you appear to be that the NT is all you need to be a Christian?

If so, why are we still dragging the OT along?  Don’t run from this, Champion, and I don’t want another wiggle.  I want to know what you think of this.

Thank you,

William

[quote author=“TheChampion”]

I like Bush’s Christianity… Might I also add that Bush talked about his relationship with Jesus when it was not known if it would cost him the presidency. He did it because it was real. Might I also add that Bush holds bible studies in the White House.

So, was Bush wrong or correct when he uttered the following

GOOD MORNING AMERICA
New York, New York
October 26, 2004

CHARLES GIBSON
Do we all worship the same God, Christian and Muslim?
PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH
I think we do.

CHARLES GIBSON
Do Christians and non-Christians and Muslims go to heaven in your mind?
PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH
Yes, they do. We have different routes of getting there. But I will, I, I want you to understand, I want your listeners to understand, I don’t get to decide who goes to heaven. The almighty God decides who goes to heaven. And I am on my personal walk.

EOQ
========

The first thing a man will do for his ideals is lie.
  —Joseph A. Schempeter

I certainly do not agree with everything the President says. I was talking about his behavior as a Christian. He does not claim to be a theologian, so take it with a grain of salt. Why don’t you check Annkerberg, McDowell, or Franklin Graham? They are the supposed experts.

Don’t worry.

OK, Champ, I like to find things out for myself, and in spite of the warnings I got from those who have dealt with you longer, I went ahead and engaged you in a couple of threads.  You have obviously run from both.

We were having a nice chat about evolution on another thread, and you cut and ran.  If I can make it clearer for you, tell me.  In this thread, I asked a few pretty important questions about scripture, and the relative importance of passages.  I guess you are choosing not to pursue it, and that, of course, is your right.

One last question, Champ, why are you here, on this forum?  What do you hope to accomplish?  Frankly, the only purpose I can see you serve here is to remind the rest of us why we are here.  That is a hell of comment on your life, Champion, you do nothing but strengthen the resolve of your adversaries.  Your cause would be better served if you just went away.

William

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1457561,00.html

I find it fascinating that the Republicans are so intensely concerned about a potential candidate for president.  Ms. Clinton must be a quite a force to be reckoned with, or they would not be so terribly worried.

Or, is this issue a continuance of the American fascination with muck-rucking and one-up-manship?  Really, now, whatever happened to the ideas of democracy and freedom your country is supposed to be built on?

Isn’t it about “of the people, by the people, and for the people”?  Or has the US become a huge extension of innane reality shows where everyone tries to destroy everyone else to see who can use the most despicable tactics to win?  And just what do you win???

Wake up, America, before you destroy all those fine ideals upon which your country was built!!!

Okay Champ, so from now on you have invalidated the entire OT.

I best not catch you quoting from there !!

Howsomever, Jesus did repeat this “judge not lest you be judged” rule in the

“Before you remove the mote from your brother’s eye, take the beam out of your own”  and

“Let he who hath no sin (which is impossible right? we are all born of Eve therefore all sinners) throw the first stone”

therefore, the spirit of the old testament in this respect, lives on in the new
clearly telling people that judging others is WRONG, its not compassionate, kind, loving, tolerant or accepting.

and to enjoy the discomfort of other is so very clearly a sin.

And as a resident of Texas, where GW was governor, and using the Biblical NT admonishment to “know a tree by the fruit it grows” meaning actions speak louder than words, I can promise you Bush’s Christianity increased ALOT when he started running for president.

I can still not reconcile the governor who denied even valid claims to give stays of executions and signed so much “anti-life” legislation with the man who stood up there and said “let’s err on the side of life”.

this man SO talks out of both sides of his mouth, just like,...hmm…like…
oh yeah I got it !! a politician !!

And yes I get worked up by this Champ.  While I don’t begrudge you your faith or your religion, I think YOUR faith is being USED against you by unscruplous politicians with an agenda other than what yours would be if you THOUGHT about it.  This blindness of Ralph Reeds Christian Coalition is insidious, evil, and clearly to me the work of the devil to fool so many believers into thinking what they are doing is good, when if you really CRITICALLY examined what was going on in Politics, I am sure a TRUE christian with the love of christ in his heart, could not support the “Right”.
Because of your belief system, you are inherently more open to accepting propaganda as “truth”.

http://www.factcheck.org/

here is a little site i check from time to time, they call everyone’s bluffs equally as much as they can.

Guest said:

I also don’t get what you’re talking about with Paul. I thought you were a follower of Jesus. Then you talk about what Paul said and God instructing his followers… Was Paul god too?

There are numerous contradiction of the teachings of Jesus by Paul.  So much so that some have referred to Paul as the great corrupter of the teachings of Jesus.

Stay Well

Wot

try out “Waiting for the Galatic Bus” by Parke Godwin, its science fiction but quite cute.

I am waiting for this book to come out on Hillary. I want to know, inquiring minds want to know, conservatives want to know, liberals want to know, Republicans want to know, Democrats want to know, Green party members want to know, even BILL himself wants to know…..

WHAT DID SHE KNOW, WHEN DID SHE KNOW IT, AND WAS SHE A PART OF IT?

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/925223/posts