Sam Harris

[quote author=“nothingbutthebloodofjesus”]Eventually, you will be forced to make decisions in your life based upon Biblical principle.  It is an undeniable fact, and you can laugh if you want, but let me ask you this: 

Take the most liberal, god-hating atheist woman, and ask her about marriage.  Ask her this:  What are you looking for in a husband?  And guess how every single woman universally will answer?  They will start giving you Jesus, how they want their man to be loving, sensitive, kind, gentle, understanding.

Are you saying that before Jesus women didn’t know what they wanted in a man? Maybe you think ancient Greek women were looking for cold, insensitive, mean and selfish husbands. Just because the Bible chose these characteristics doesn’t make them Biblical. They existed long before Jesus and will exist long after your belief in him is a memory.

[quote author=“nothingbutthebloodofjesus”]If man happens to be nothing more than an advancement in evolution, and we are related to everything out there, you cannot explain to me why it is okay to kill living creature, but its not okay to kill a human.  You can’t do it without running into morality.  And where does that come from?  Darwin?  NEVER.

Again, your argument assumes that people living before the Bible was written lived different lives than after. Show me where the ancient Greeks or Egyptians accepted murder. Morals were created by man to allow men to live together. Just because the Bible adopted them doesn’t make them biblical creations.

[quote author=“nothingbutthebloodofjesus”]Why is it again that Newton and his discoveries are considered some of the most critical in the history of man, and yet he wrote more books on theology than science? Once again, because he held to Biblical inerrancy.

For the same reason Einstein’s discoveries were also some of the most critical in history, yet he rejected the belief in any God in the biblical sense. They have nothing to do with each other.

[quote author=“nothingbutthebloodofjesus”]“We have educated ourselves into imbecility”

Speak for yourself.

[quote author=“nothingbutthebloodofjesus”]If you find a church, that has the Spirit of the Lord at the helm, and that teaches Biblical principles and holds to our need to be saved, you will find order.  You will find love, comfort, support, patience, kindness, gentleness, self-control, remorse and you will find SIN.  Our spirit is willing but our flesh is weak.

Scientists proved long ago that our beliefs, whether true or not, can have a significant effect on our lives. That is why doctors always use three-way blind tests to evaluate new drugs. Many times, patients taking a placebo have results just as good as those taking the real drug even though the placebo could not have any effect. Even if every Christian in the world were loving, supportive, patient, kind, and gentle ( which they are not ), it wouldn’t prove anything. Atheists can be just as loving, supportive, patient, kind, and gentle ( and usually are ). Before you can prove that belief in God is necessary for society, you would have to prove that God is real, which you can’t.

[quote author=“nothingbutthebloodofjesus”]  First of all JGL, I never said it was “okay” to murder another human…

Yes you did.  You said if there is no god then it is “okay” to murder.

[quote author=“nothingbutthebloodofjesus”]…You didn’t develop a sense of moral justice from the Darwinian theory, and I do say THEORY…

No, I developed my sense of morality from my proper socialization as a child, plus the fact that I have a normal brain – this applies to most people, as I am not anything special here.  And there is no god needed for the process.

[quote author=“nothingbutthebloodofjesus”]  As far as your question about what I would do without God.  I can’t answer that exactly, but I would definitely say that it is distinctly possible that I would be a murderer or a rapist.  I cannot say for sure that I wouldn’t do those things.  Now that would be arrogant…

No, I think your statements here are sick and disturbed – not ad homineming you, just telling you what your statements obvious mean in terms of your moral and mental health.

[quote author=“nothingbutthebloodofjesus”]…Something that is chaotic does not, and never will, produce order.  Something this is immoral, and all of us are immoral and sinful, does not produce something that is moral.

Neither conclusion follows from the premises, nor did you offer any evidence that it does, just asserted your opinion, which doesn’t even make any sense whatsoever.

[quote author=“nothingbutthebloodofjesus”]…Society cannot survive on atheism.  We start turning atheism into mysticism, angel worship, palm readers, etc etc, which is a way of us “inventing” new religion.  We are not and never will be inherently “atheistic.”  You have to be educated to be an atheist.  Thats why you don’t find mentally challenged atheists, unless they have been brainwashed into thinking that way.

That is your unsubstantiated opinion again – and, again, it doesn’t even make a shred of sense.  Why do you keep posting nonsense like thist – who do you think you are impressing?

[quote author=“nothingbutthebloodofjesus”]  Thats why Hellen Keller, when asked about God, responded, “I always knew He was there, I just didn’t know His name.”  We are talking about a person that hadn’t seen the world, heard anything in it or been able to discern anything that requires the ability to see or hear or speak.

Helen Keller was a product of her environment.  Did she discover god on her own?  No, someone inculcated her with the idea.  Had she been raised by Aryan Nation types, she probably would have turned out a disgusting racist – being in a position wherein it would have been very difficult for her to go against her keepers. 
[quote author=“nothingbutthebloodofjesus”]… I am not arrogant about my worship of my Creator.  I hope that I am truly humble in that.  We are here to serve, and Christianity has done pretty well when you find the fundamental group that holds to the inerrancy of the spoken Word of God…

Again, your unsubstantiated opinion that is useless to me. 

[quote author=“nothingbutthebloodofjesus”]…You can bring up all the examples that you want about the extremist idiots that claim God’s name in the murder and terrorism that happens today.  But you cannot say that religion is therefore more harmful than good in a society and that we should eliminate it.  Sorry man, that will never ever happen.  In fact, it is an impossibility…

Nice try – but changing the subject is not a ploy that will work.  I never said ANYTHING about eliminating religion from society – my previous post just made the point that there is no proven correlation or necessary connection to date with religion/irreligion and moral/immoral behavior.

I think I’ll stop here.  And I think I’ll stop wasting my time with you.  I think we both know where the other stands.  I perceive that you do not wish to have a rational discussion; you just want to “win” the debate for your god, no matter what, and just proselytize all the poor lost atheists here.  You obviously have NO ability to actually listen to what others are saying, being obviously so wrapped up in your god and bathing in his blood and promoting him that you might as well be deaf.  .

I’ll leave you to the others here from now on.  And Good luck winning souls for Christ here on an atheist forum.

[quote author=“nothingbutthebloodofjesus”]I learned all I need to learn about atheists when I read the following post to a question I asked about the arrogant nature of atheists.

Atheists tend to arrogance because, acknowledging no higher power (be it the Judeo-Christian God, Allah, the Great Spirit, of simply something beyond the material world) they see no reason to practice humility.

Is the second paragraph a quotation from burt?  If so, why not use the quoting convention for this forum?  It’s easy; it’s even built into the SW.  I can’t speak for burt but it doesn’t reflect my point of view.

That was from burt.  I truly believe now that this is most atheists attitude about life.  But there is a huge problem with that.  You can’t practice what you “preach” so to speak at all.  Eventually, you will be forced to make decisions in your life based upon Biblical principle.  It is an undeniable fact, and you can laugh if you want, but let me ask you this:

I have to admit, I am laughing at that.

Take the most liberal, god-hating atheist woman, and ask her about marriage.  Ask her this:  What are you looking for in a husband?  And guess how every single woman universally will answer?  They will start giving you Jesus, how they want their man to be loving, sensitive, kind, gentle, understanding.

First of all, this isn’t my understanding of the “Jesus” founder figure of Christianity.  Second, there are any number of historical persons who appear to have these characteristics.  Such as, for instance, John Stuart Mill.

When you lower the existence of man to all other things in nature, making man the cousin of every single animal and living thing, you simply cannot live out your atheism without running into road blocks where you have to make a decision based on Biblical principle.  If man happens to be nothing more than an advancement in evolution, and we are related to everything out there, you cannot explain to me why it is okay to kill living creature, but its not okay to kill a human.

Very few Christians would say it is not okay to kill a human being under certain circumstances: that is, few are absolute pacifists.  Meanwhile, there are other religious believers who do not believe in the taking of any life: for instance, many Buddhists entered monasteries in the past to avoid being farmers (which inevitably results in killing life).  Sam Harris gives the example of Jains, who won’t even kill insects.  Personally I would rather be dropped into a group of randomly selected Buddhists or Jains in terms of my own personal safety than Christians.

You can’t do it without running into morality.  And where does that come from?  Darwin?  NEVER.

Actually it does.

[quote author=“nothingbutthebloodofjesus”]

But I would like an honest answer to an honest question:  Why are atheists almost invariably arrogant about how they try to portray their beliefs?  Is it truly that you think you are much smarter than us?  Because you don’t have to convince us there.  That’s why we are called “sheep” in the Bible.  The dumbest animal alive. 

But why the ubiquitous nature of an intellectually pompous attitude?  How can you live your life like that?

In my experience: Arrogance is a relative state; generally seen in others by those who feel that they’ve have been put in their place.

Hence the saying: Arrogance is in the eye of the beholder.

Most atheists that I know seek excellence with humility. For this they know: One bit (one quantum) of information is enough to change the course of evolution in any species. (Hence the emergence and evolution of morality.)

Hope this helps in your own quest for excellence.