1 of 3
1
Torture is Now Part of the American Soul
Posted: 18 December 2006 05:03 AM   [ Ignore ]  
Newbie
Rank
Total Posts:  41
Joined  2006-08-20

Torture Is Now Part of the American Soul
By George Monbiot, The Guardian
Posted on December 18, 2006, Printed on December 18, 2006
http://www.alternet.org/story/45613/
After thousands of years of practice, you might have imagined that every possible means of inflicting pain had already been devised. But you should never underestimate the human capacity for invention. United States interrogators, we now discover, have found a new way of destroying a human being.

In early December, defense lawyers acting for Jose Padilla, a US citizen detained as an "enemy combatant," released a video showing a mission fraught with deadly risk—taking him to the prison dentist. A group of masked guards in riot gear shackled his legs and hands, blindfolded him with black-out goggles and shut off his hearing with headphones, then marched him down the prison corridor.

Is Padilla really that dangerous? Far from it: his warders describe him as so docile and inactive that he could be mistaken for "a piece of furniture." The purpose of these measures appeared to be to sustain the regime under which he had lived for over three years: total sensory deprivation. He had been kept in a blacked-out cell, unable to see or hear anything beyond it. Most importantly, he had no human contact, except for being bounced off the walls from time to time by his interrogators. As a result, he appears to have lost his mind. I don't mean this metaphorically. I mean that his mind is no longer there.

The forensic psychiatrist who examined him says that he "does not appreciate the nature and consequences of the proceedings against him, is unable to render assistance to counsel, and has impairments in reasoning as the result of a mental illness, i.e., post-traumatic stress disorder, complicated by the neuropsychiatric effects of prolonged isolation." Jose Padilla appears to have been lobotomised: not medically, but socially.

If this was an attempt to extract information, it was ineffective: the authorities held him without charge for three and half years. Then, threatened by a supreme court ruling, they suddenly dropped their claims that he was trying to detonate a dirty bomb. They have now charged him with some vague and lesser offences to do with support for terrorism.

He is unlikely to be the only person subjected to this regime. Another "enemy combatant," Ali al-Marri, claims to have been subject to the same total isolation and sensory deprivation, in the same naval prison in South Carolina. God knows what is being done to people who have disappeared into the CIA's foreign oubliettes.

That the US tortures, routinely and systematically, while prosecuting its "war on terror" can no longer be seriously disputed. The Detainee Abuse and Accountability Project (DAA), a coalition of academics and human rights groups, has documented the abuse or killing of 460 inmates of US military prisons in Afghanistan, Iraq and at Guantanamo Bay. This, it says, is necessarily a conservative figure: many cases will remain unrecorded. The prisoners were beaten, raped, forced to abuse themselves, forced to maintain "stress positions," and subjected to prolonged sleep deprivation and mock executions.

The New York Times reports that prisoners held by the US military at Bagram airbase in Afghanistan were made to stand for up to 13 days with their hands chained to the ceiling, naked, hooded and unable to sleep. The Washington Post alleges that prisoners at the same airbase were "commonly blindfolded and thrown into walls, bound in painful positions, subjected to loud noises and deprived of sleep" while kept, like Jose Padilla and the arrivals at Guantanamo Bay, "in black hoods or spray-painted goggles."

Alfred McCoy, professor of History at the University of Wisconsin-Madison, argues that the photographs released from the Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq reflect standard CIA torture techniques: "stress positions, sensory deprivation, and sexual humiliation." The famous picture of the hooded man standing on a box, with wires attached to his fingers, shows two of these techniques being used at once. Unable to see, he has no idea how much time has passed or what might be coming next. He stands in a classic stress position—maintained for several hours, it causes excruciating pain. He appears to have been told that if he drops his arms he will be electrocuted. What went wrong at Abu Ghraib is that someone took photos. Everything else was done by the book.

Neither the military nor the civilian authorities have broken much sweat in investigating these crimes. A few very small fish have been imprisoned; a few others have been fined or reduced in rank; in most cases the authorities have either failed to investigate or failed to prosecute. The DAA points out that no officer has yet been held to account for torture practised by his subordinates. US torturers appear to enjoy impunity, until they are stupid enough to take pictures of each other.

But Padilla's treatment also reflects another glorious American tradition: solitary confinement. Some 25,000 US prisoners are currently held in isolation—a punishment only rarely used in other democracies. In some places, like the federal prison in Florence, Colorado, they are kept in sound-proofed cells and might scarcely see another human being for years on end. They may touch or be touched by no one. Some people have been kept in solitary confinement in the United States for more than 20 years.

At Pelican Bay in California, where 1,200 people are held in the isolation wing, inmates are confined to tiny cells for 22-and-a half hours a day, then released into an "exercise yard" for "recreation." The yard consists of a concrete well about 12 feet in length with walls 20 feet high and a metal grill across the sky. The recreation consists of pacing back and forth, alone.

The results are much as you would expect. As National Public Radio reveals, 10% of the isolation prisoners at Pelican Bay are now in the psychiatric wing, and there's a waiting list. Prisoners in solitary confinement, according to Dr Henry Weinstein, a psychiatrist who studies them, suffer from "memory loss to severe anxiety to hallucinations to delusions ... under the severest cases of sensory deprivation, people go crazy." People who went in bad and dangerous come out mad as well. The only two studies conducted so far—in Texas and Washington state—both show that the recidivism rates for prisoners held in solitary confinement are worse than for those who were allowed to mix with other prisoners. If we were to judge the United States by its penal policies, we would perceive a strange beast: a Christian society that believes in neither forgiveness nor redemption.

From this delightful experiment, US interrogators appear to have extracted a useful lesson: if you want to erase a man's mind, deprive him of contact with the rest of the world. This has nothing to do with obtaining information: torture of all kinds—physical or mental—produces the result that people will say anything to make it end. It is about power, and the thrilling discovery that in the right conditions one man's power over another is unlimited. It is an indulgence which turns its perpetrators into everything they claim to be confronting.

President Bush maintains that he is fighting a war against threats to the "values of civilized nations": terror, cruelty, barbarism and extremism. He asked his nation's interrogators to discover where these evils are hidden. They should congratulate themselves. They appear to have succeeded.

George Monbiot is the author of 'Poisoned Arrows' and 'No Man's Land' (Green Books). Read more of his writings at Monbiot.com. This article originally appeared in the Guardian.

© 2006 Independent Media Institute. All rights reserved.
View this story online at: http://www.alternet.org/story/45613/

In the End of Faith, Sam makes a rational and cogent argument for the use of torture in a "ticking bomb" situation. In this scenario, authorities are convinced that their prisoner knows the location of a bomb that will explode at any moment killing many people. However, there is no justification for the type of treatment descibed in the above article. I fear that many of us will become complacent about such activity as more evidence accumulates. Just unfortunate collateral damage in the heroic war on terror.

Of course there were no Christians involved in these incidents. LOL

Dave

Profile
 
 
Posted: 18 December 2006 07:22 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]  
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  2136
Joined  2006-02-20

Road to Guantanamo on DVD

This film is about three young British Muslims who went to Pakistan where one of them expected to meet his future bride.  While there they crossed into Afghanistan, sightseeing, or adventuring.  They ended up in the wrong place at the wrong time, and so on to Guantanamo and years of torture.

http://movies.yahoo.com/movie/1809279508/info

It is now available on DVD in the U.S. - most video stores.

If we had a true world government with true international laws - (a world government that upheld the values the U.S. claims to hold) George W. Bush and his top leaders would be on trial for war crimes, and crimes against humanity - the same as Sadam Husein.  A few days ago I saw the film, ‘World Trade Center’ - and couldn’t control my grief for the victims of that atrocity.  But since then Bush & Co. have been responsible for the death and maiming of hundreds of thousands of people - men, women, and children.  “What does it profit a nation, if it saves itself and loses its soul?”

Recently on the news, we saw George Bush senior breaking down during a speech.  It’s hard not to imagine that he weeps over the carnage that his namesake has wrought. (I’m sure there are other reasons for his grief).  After 9/11 most of the world was with us.  Now, most of the world is against us - for good reason.

 Signature 

“The simple fables of the religious of the world have come to seem like tales told to children.”  - Nobel Prize recipient - Francis Crick

“It is time we recognized the boundless narcissism and self-deceit of the saved.” - Sam Harris

Profile
 
 
Posted: 18 December 2006 08:29 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]  
Newbie
Rank
Total Posts:  35
Joined  2006-12-02

Please don’t brag about being a Canadian, Dave or dmcr35. Because you’re a Canadian, you should tell the United States Gov’t how they should conduct their interrogation’s? I’m a Canadian and I’m in complete favour of using whatever mean’s necessary to stop an attack on our own soil or our that of our Brother’s and Sister’s from across the border. If it wasn’t for our Big Brother to the south we’d be speaking Russian right now. Do you realize that our Military budget, until the Conservative’s got in, was 2nd lowest in the 1st world Nation’s, one place behind Switzerland, which is a Neutral Country? But, as I’m quite sure you are a lefty NDPer, who want’s to bring our Troop’s home from Afganistan. And probably a cowardly Protester to boot. That you abhour violence of any kind, isn’t that right? Haven’t fought for your Country, but will happily hide behind those very Freedom’s that we Soldier’s provide? Conscientious Objector? Ever served in the Military? Correction’s? Police? See the violence that one person can commit on another first hand? Experienced any torture yourself? No? I didn’t think so, and what you’ve seen at the movies and on the News doesn’t count. I’m proud to be a Canadian and wouldn’t want to be anyone or anywhere else. However, unlike a mouth piece like you, who feel’s too superior to our neighbour’s to the South. I am in favour of any tactic’s that they feel they have to use, just so long as it stop’s another attack. I don’t want to see anyone innocent suffer, but pull your head out of your ass, the people in these jail’s aren’t their because they were randomly picked out of a hat. And you know what, even if a small number of them are there for the wrong reason’s, it’s better that a few suffer for the greater good of the many. I’d like to see what your response would be if you saw a fellow soldier torn apart by a suicide bomber or someone you loved and cared about was beheaded. You think Toronto isn’t a prime Terrorist target for the extremeist’s? Come on here and do your rant when you actually know of that which you speak. And for shitsakes, stop telling people your a Canadian, try criticizing your own Gov’t. Or do me a favour and go to Quebec and Seperate along with the rest of those whining Surrender Monkies. Whatever you do, SHUT THE HELL UP!

CDN

[ Edited: 19 December 2006 04:32 AM by ]
Profile
 
 
Posted: 19 December 2006 03:51 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]  
Newbie
Rank
Total Posts:  41
Joined  2006-08-20

[quote author=“CDN”]Please don’t brag about being a Canadian, Dave or dmcr35. Because you’re a Canadian, you should tell the United States Gov’t how they should conduct their interrogation’s? I’m a Canadian and I’m in complete favour of using whatever mean’s necessary to stop an attack on our own soil or our that of our Brother’s and Sister’s from across the border. If it wasn’t for our Big Brother to the south we’d be speaking Russian right now. Do you realize that our Military budget, until the Conservative’s got in, was 2nd lowest in the 1st world Nation’s, one place behind Switzland, which is a Neutral Country? But, as I’m quite sure you are a lefty NDPer, who want’s to bring our Troop’s home from Afganistan. And probably a cowardly Protester to boot. That you abhour violence of any kind, isn’t that right? Haven’t fought for your Country, but will happily hide behind those very Freedom’s that we Soldier’s provide? Conscientious Objector? Ever served in the Military? Correction’s? Police? See the violence that one person can commit on another first hand? Experienced any torture yourself? No? I didn’t think so, and what you’ve seen at the movies and on the News doesn’t count. I’m proud to be a Canadian and wouldn’t want to be anyone or anywhere else. However, unlike a mouth piece like you, who feel’s too superior to our neighbour’s to the South. I am in favour of any tactic’s that they feel they have to use, just so long as it stop’s another attack. I don’t want to see anyone innocent suffer, but pull your head out of your ass, the people in these jail’s aren’t their because they were randomly picked out of a hat. And you know what, even if a small number of them are there for the wrong reason’s, it’s better that a few suffer for the greater good of the many. I’d like to see what your response would be if you saw a fellow soldier torn apart by a suicide bomber or someone you loved and cared about was beheaded. You think Toronto isn’t a prime Terrorist target for the extremeist’s? Come on here and do your rant when you actually know of that which you speak. And for shitsakes, stop telling people your a Canadian, try criticizing your own Gov’t. Or do me a favour and go to Quebec and Seperate along with the rest of those whining Surrender Monkies. Whatever you do, SHUT THE HELL UP!

CDN

Well now, this certainly supports the old adage that if one is unable to discuss the topic intelligently, try a personal attack.

Dave

Profile
 
 
Posted: 19 December 2006 04:31 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]  
Newbie
Rank
Total Posts:  35
Joined  2006-12-02

Here’s me discussing your dumb-assed idea’s. Here’s me handing you two tissue’s…one to cry for the treatment of your beloved Terrorist’s. And one for being personally attacked or in my opinion, self-righteously
Stupid. Quit being Stupid and I won’t have anymore to say to you. Is that clear enough for you? Or do you need to discuss that too?

CDN

Profile
 
 
Posted: 19 December 2006 11:47 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]  
Newbie
Rank
Total Posts:  41
Joined  2006-08-20

[quote author=“CDN”]Here’s me discussing your dumb-assed idea’s. Here’s me handing you two tissue’s…one to cry for the treatment of your beloved Terrorist’s. And one for being personally attacked or in my opinion, self-righteously
Stupid. Quit being Stupid and I won’t have anymore to say to you. Is that clear enough for you? Or do you need to discuss that too?

CDN

I have nothing more to say as well. However, I do want to thank you for your comments regarding my signature. As a result, you will note, I have changed it. ‘Nuff said.

Dave

Profile
 
 
Posted: 20 December 2006 06:32 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]  
Jr. Member
RankRank
Total Posts:  62
Joined  2006-12-14

Perhaps it would help if I could bring this back to basics for my fellow Americans:

The United States has wrongfully detained and mistreated its own citizens to the point of madness, in contravention of the constitution.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/18/world/middleeast/18justice.html

Prisoner 200343 was subjected to prolonged sleep deprivation, as the article relates:

The fluorescent lights in his cell were never turned off, he said. At most hours, heavy metal or country music blared in the corridor. He said he was rousted at random times without explanation and made to stand in his cell. Even lying down, he said, he was kept from covering his face to block out the light, noise and cold. And when he was released after 97 days he was exhausted, depressed and scared.

What was this prisoner’s crime, you may well ask? Prisoner 200343 worked for a security consulting firm in Bagdad. Someone within the company reported illegal weapons training within the firm, and the presence of two illegal weapons caches. As an employee, prisoner 200343 was a suspect.

Of course 200343, or Navy Veteran Donald Vance from Chicago as he is better known, was the one who reported the illegal caches in the first place.

After reading such a chilling tale, one is forced to ask oneself: After 93 days of sleep deprivation and torture, what wouldn’t one confess to?

Mr. Vance, an American citizen, was denied habeas corpus. He was denied his right to an attorney. He was denied the right to knowledge of the full evidence against him. He was deliberately subjected to conditions which rendered him incapable of a fair trial, and was only allowed to testify on his own behalf on account of his acknowledged United States citizenship. This is contrary to the letter and spirit of the United States Constitution, the Magna Charta, and (as he was a civilian) one presumes the Geneva Convention.

It is quite reasonable to suspect that ordinary, innocent, Iraqi citizens are being subjected to this sort of treatment with a much higher frequency than actual insurgents and terrorists. After such maddening treatment, one would not be shocked to learn they actively took up arms against the United States. It is foolhardy in the extreme to suggest we can promote democracy in Iraq while such behavior is under way.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 20 December 2006 07:20 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]  
Newbie
Rank
Total Posts:  35
Joined  2006-12-02

Since your atleast an American, I’ll cut you some slack. This article you quote from the NYTime’s. Of course the Time’s are privy to any and all classified information that the Gov’t has on these individual’s? That’s the whole story as you know it huh? It list’s all his past affiliation’s and activities? That tiny article told us all we need to know about the event’s that led up to this individual’s detention and subsequent so called torture? If you say it’s so, then you must have been there? And of course everything we hear and read must be true? We certainly don’t get all the fact’s from the Newspaper’s, other than what they want you to read. Try and remember who the Editor is, who wrote the story…what their motivation’s and affiliation’s are. I’m not saying that this article isn’t completely correct, maybe it’s dead on, but as I’ve stated, it’s better that a few suffer for the greater good of the many. They didn’t just randomly pick this guy out of the air. There are reason’s that may not be eveident to the public. I’d rather have a proactive stance than a reactive one. Whatever it take’s to stop another Terrorist Attack. Do you doubt that they aren’t planning one now? Ask the families of those that lost someone near and dear in the Twin Tower Attack’s, I think you already know what most of them would say. Or should we just open the door’s and let them all out? Please share your infinite wisdom on the solution? Mine is to use any and every mean’s available to stop attack’s on the innocent populace. You have every right to analyze or criticize your Gov’t. And it’s the Magna Carta, if in fact that wasn’t a typo, then you’re using an outdated term, nobody used Magna Charta. As for the Geneva Conventions, as is often misstated as the Geneva Convention,  was origially set up for the protection of ‘Prisoner’s of War,’ only much later did it come to apply to civilian’s. Perhap’s you should look up these term’s if you don’t properly understand them???

:oops: CDN

Profile
 
 
Posted: 20 December 2006 08:34 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]  
Newbie
Rank
Total Posts:  37
Joined  2005-10-13

Under the terms of the Military Commissions Act of 2006, any citizen or non-citizen of the US may be designated an “enemy combatant” by the President or his proxies. Check this out:

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/october2006/221006doesaffect.htm

Now, I realize that a substantial portion of the electorate, and even some foreign nationals like CDN, have a childlike faith in George W. Bush. They think that his heart is pure, and his judgment infallible. The available evidence suggests otherwise—but let us say (for the sake of argument) that they are correct. They forget that W leaves office in January of 2009. There will be another President . . . and another . . . and another.

Even if Presidents are of a higher caliber in the future than in the past, at some point our luck (and perhaps the world’s luck) will run out, and an American President will exploit the terms of MCA to rid himself of political enemies.

Consider this scenario: There is a spate of abortion clinic bombings. Hundreds are killed. The incumbent President designates all pro-choice activists enemy combatants. Everyone who has contributed money to a pro-choice group is also designated an enemy combatant. All of these people may be “disappeared”. No charges filed. No opportunity to confront their accuser. No trial.

Are you neo-cons still so enthusiastic about the so-called war on terror?

Profile
 
 
Posted: 21 December 2006 02:27 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]  
Jr. Member
RankRank
Total Posts:  62
Joined  2006-12-14

[quote author=“CDN”]Since your atleast an American, I’ll cut you some slack. This article you quote from the NYTime’s. Of course the Time’s are privy to any and all classified information that the Gov’t has on these individual’s? That’s the whole story as you know it huh? It list’s all his past affiliation’s and activities? That tiny article told us all we need to know about the event’s that led up to this individual’s detention and subsequent so called torture? If you say it’s so, then you must have been there? And of course everything we hear and read must be true? We certainly don’t get all the fact’s from the Newspaper’s, other than what they want you to read. Try and remember who the Editor is, who wrote the story…what their motivation’s and affiliation’s are. I’m not saying that this article isn’t completely correct, maybe it’s dead on, but as I’ve stated, it’s better that a few suffer for the greater good of the many. They didn’t just randomly pick this guy out of the air. There are reason’s that may not be eveident to the public. I’d rather have a proactive stance than a reactive one. Whatever it take’s to stop another Terrorist Attack. Do you doubt that they aren’t planning one now? Ask the families of those that lost someone near and dear in the Twin Tower Attack’s, I think you already know what most of them would say. Or should we just open the door’s and let them all out? Please share your infinite wisdom on the solution? Mine is to use any and every mean’s available to stop attack’s on the innocent populace. You have every right to analyze or criticize your Gov’t. And it’s the Magna Carta, if in fact that wasn’t a typo, then you’re using an outdated term, nobody used Magna Charta. As for the Geneva Conventions, as is often misstated as the Geneva Convention,  was origially set up for the protection of ‘Prisoner’s of War,’ only much later did it come to apply to civilian’s. Perhap’s you should look up these term’s if you don’t properly understand them???

:oops: CDN

Well, since you’re not an American I’ll cut you some slack on not understanding the American Constitution and Bill of Rights.

This is a case of the right hand not knowing what the left is doing, which is a fine reason to suggest the state should not have unrestricted power over ‘potential enemies.’

This sort of conduct creates terrorists out of otherwise (more) moderate people. If you round up 10 innocent people and one terrorist, treat all eleven like this, then kill the terrorist and let the 10 innocent people go… at the end of the day, the total number of terrorists has in fact increased.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 21 December 2006 11:25 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]  
Member
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  775
Joined  2006-12-04

CDN wrote

Whatever it take’s to stop another Terrorist Attack.

Whatever? Are You Sure?

If you are willing to do that, then the problem can easily be solved.

Simply convert the US to an Islamic Theocracy governed by Al Queda.

But you aren’t willing to do that. So, there are some limits to your ‘whatever’.

The real question isn’t what we are willing to do. It is what we are unwilling to do.

We lost the “War on Terror’ the moment Bush declared it. It is like declaring a ‘War on Crime’ in order to eliminate the Mafia. How many shoplifters would we need to arrest in order to get rid of the Tony Soprano’s?

Profile
 
 
Posted: 21 December 2006 01:38 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]  
Administrator
Avatar
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  558
Joined  2006-11-17

The difficulty in Iraq and Afghanistan is that we are not fighting a war as we used to know it.  There are not two armies.  You don’t have people in uniform fighting other people in uniform.  You have civilians who are the combatants.  Personally, I think it was a huge mistake to go into Iraq and have never voted for Bush.  I see no excuse for detaining american citizens.  I can understand them detaining innocent Iraqi civilians, however.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 21 December 2006 08:29 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]  
Newbie
Rank
Total Posts:  35
Joined  2006-12-02

Wow, do you guy’s read or think properly? Talk about living in the land of fairy tales. Ok, first let me discuss my ‘childlike’ faith in George W. Bush. I said the Gov’t of the United States, period. Unless he make’s every decision in every office that entail’s the United state’s Gov’t then I believe I’m describing the entire Organization, one man does not make a Gov’t, be he Leader or not. Try reading it again you slowwit. I’ll get back to you ‘No Brain’, on your, oh so logical reasoning on Abortionist’s, but clever, wow, you got me…iDDDDioT…

As for you B.D.or V.D., like I care about you…you’ve already demonstrated your vast knowledge on all thing’s Constitutional. We here in Canada, have a very similiar Political Document that Govern’s out Right’s and Law’s. It’s call the Charter of Right’s and Freedom’s. Does it sound familiar? It should as we were both one time Colonies of Britian. And yet again your reasoning is as logical as your brain is smart. Your point on the cause’s of Terrorism is spot on! Well right back at you then, Slappy! Take those same eleven people, one being the Terrorist. Do nothing and the one Terrorist kill’s all 11 of them and several hundred or thousand innocent bystander’s? Sound asinine? That’s cause you are an idiot!!!! Perhap’s you can enlighten them with your witty banter!? Maybe give them all a big hug and tuck them in with a bedtime story on how your Mother dropped you on your head one too many time’s as a baby. You make as much sense a a four year old child trying to talk their way into staying up later, so they can watch TV. Weak and ineffectual. I’m done with you, your a waste of time. You’ve proved the term: Stupid is, as Stupid does.

Now on to Toad, another great observation, followed up by an even greater solution. That was my contention when I said to use ‘whatever’ tactics necessary. Thank’s for looking between the line’s with your brilliant insight. Clearly, I meant anything, as it related to the point I was getting across. As such, thing’s that would prove beneficial to stopping a future Terrorist Attack. Not, ‘whatever,’ as it relate’s to your lame-ass assertion’s in the realm of inanity. Here’s you, I think you mean that we should all dig a hole in the sand and hide our head’s there until the danger goes away, cause we’ll be safe there. Because ‘whatever’ could mean anything right Einstien? Unfricken believable, you couldn’t be more lamebrained than a one-legged man in an ass-kicking contest. Your idea of ‘whatever’ must be all thing’s that are beyond the scope of reality. Real is torturing and if necessary killing people to get the information that will stop Terrorism, your weakly played point only surmise’s the unbelievable. Converting 300 million people to Islam, yeah, then let’s cut everyone’s arm’s and leg’s off, blind and deafen them, at that point, they should all be harmless…‘whatever, right? You’re so Stupid, it hurt’s my Brain to even have to respond to you. Whoo, keep it up dumb-ass, you should be thinking your tiny brain into a coma any minute. Please…keep using that razor sharp wit to attack my intelligence. You shitstain on the road of life, go back to your peace protest’s or maybe try being a Man and serving your Country, instead of trying to dazzle someone that is clearly more intelligent than you are and has the ball’s to put his money where his mouth is. But go on, keep sitting in your computer chair and running your vacous mind on auto-stupid. I’m done with you too. Frickin Retard.

Do I even have to tell you ‘No Brain’? Base your arguement in Reality, Frick Me, is this the I can’t find my own Ass, part of the Forum? I know? Let’s say there was a rash of McDonald’s Bombings. Hundred’s are killed and the Incumbent Pres., designate’s all Vegetarian’s as ‘Enemy Combantants.’ Anybody who shop’s or has bought vegetarian product’s is also designated an ‘Enemy Combatant.’ Do I need to go on Shite for No Brain’s? You really are Quite Thick. It’s like I’m being debated by a troop of Kindergartener’s, but only those put into the special Ed. class. I’m done with you Lot of Laughable Idiot’s. I really could go on and on. But to waste further time on your rambling’s would sap my intelligence. Perhap’s you can find solace in the fact that you are all, equally, an uniquely Retarded in your own special, simple way’s. Milanst, not included. Whether I agree with what he is trying to say, atleast he can put his thought’s across in a cohesive manner. Now Flick Off and go protest the School System’s in your Communities, clearly they are substandard, educating the group of you Bumdrums. It must be really embarrassing to be in your eye’s huh? Hard to look in the mirror? I’m now Forever done with you Waste’s. Write “whatever” you all like, I won’t come back to this topic any further. If you dare, find me elsewhere! Fecking Tard’s!

Profile
 
 
Posted: 21 December 2006 08:39 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]  
Member
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  775
Joined  2006-12-04

CDN,

Thank you for openly admitting that I was 100% correct and you are 100% wrong.

Your incoherent rant could only be the result of being exposed to an ABSOLUTE TRUTH which crashed your fairy tale reality.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 21 December 2006 08:43 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]  
Member
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  775
Joined  2006-12-04

CDN wrote

Real is torturing and if necessary killing people to get the information that will stop Terrorism

I suggest we start with CDN. He claims to have a great deal of knowledge about terrorist attacks.

After all, the SOLE purpose of torture is SEXUAL SADISM.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 29 December 2006 12:11 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]  
Member
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  222
Joined  2006-07-03

[quote author=“CDN”]Please don’t brag about being a Canadian, Dave or dmcr35. Because you’re a Canadian, you should tell the United States Gov’t how they should conduct their interrogation’s? I’m a Canadian and I’m in complete favour of using whatever mean’s necessary to stop an attack on our own soil or our that of our Brother’s and Sister’s from across the border. If it wasn’t for our Big Brother to the south we’d be speaking Russian right now. Do you realize that our Military budget, until the Conservative’s got in, was 2nd lowest in the 1st world Nation’s, one place behind Switzerland, which is a Neutral Country? But, as I’m quite sure you are a lefty NDPer, who want’s to bring our Troop’s home from Afganistan. And probably a cowardly Protester to boot. That you abhour violence of any kind, isn’t that right? Haven’t fought for your Country, but will happily hide behind those very Freedom’s that we Soldier’s provide? Conscientious Objector? Ever served in the Military? Correction’s? Police? See the violence that one person can commit on another first hand? Experienced any torture yourself? No? I didn’t think so, and what you’ve seen at the movies and on the News doesn’t count. I’m proud to be a Canadian and wouldn’t want to be anyone or anywhere else. However, unlike a mouth piece like you, who feel’s too superior to our neighbour’s to the South. I am in favour of any tactic’s that they feel they have to use, just so long as it stop’s another attack. I don’t want to see anyone innocent suffer, but pull your head out of your ass, the people in these jail’s aren’t their because they were randomly picked out of a hat. And you know what, even if a small number of them are there for the wrong reason’s, it’s better that a few suffer for the greater good of the many. I’d like to see what your response would be if you saw a fellow soldier torn apart by a suicide bomber or someone you loved and cared about was beheaded. You think Toronto isn’t a prime Terrorist target for the extremeist’s? Come on here and do your rant when you actually know of that which you speak. And for shitsakes, stop telling people your a Canadian, try criticizing your own Gov’t. Or do me a favour and go to Quebec and Seperate along with the rest of those whining Surrender Monkies. Whatever you do, SHUT THE HELL UP!

CDN

While it is Islamic terrorists we’re currently fighting, it was home grown terrorists who bombed Oklahoma City and mailed out Anthrax containing envelopes. Are we to treat.. suspected… terrorists of all stripes the same way? Should we with the swipe of a pen deny even our own citizens what is granted to them by our country’s Bill of Rights?

We should now be even more fearful for our troops. Should they be captured, they are more likely to face torture in addition to being beheaded, because we are establishing that it is okay to torture. Is this the behavior that a country should exhibit that talks down to the rest of the world about what freedom and democracy is?!

The Bush administration and the Republican leadership do NOT represent the majority of Americans. At most they at one time represented 50% of our population, and that figure has long since declined. Many of their actions are criminal and history will judge them as such!

Profile
 
 
   
1 of 3
1
 
RSS 2.0     Atom Feed