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Out of Body experience
Posted: 06 April 2008 03:04 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 31 ]  
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I just floated around my bedroom. 

And I did not, and still do not, use any drugs.

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Posted: 06 April 2008 06:49 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 32 ]  
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So you used a natural alternate mental state ... cool!

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“We say, ‘Love your brother…’ We don’t say it really, but… Well we don’t literally say it. We don’t really, literally mean it. No, we don’t believe it either, but… But that message should be clear.”—David St. Hubbins

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Posted: 07 December 2008 02:03 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 33 ]  
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Airy Spirit - 06 April 2008 10:01 AM

I astral travelled once, when I was 14 years old.  An amazing experience.

My best friend had an OBE when she was seeing a hypnotherapist.  She was above her body observing her unconscious/hypnotized body while the therapist was still speaking to her.  She told me it was the most amazing and ubelievable feeling of bliss and happiness she had ever experienced in her life, that drugs pale in comparison.  She said that while out of her body she heard a male voice speak to her, telling her that no matter what happened to her in her life, no matter what trauma or sorrow she’d encounter, nothing could really harm the core of who she really was. 

When she came to she related what happened to the therapist, including what the therapist was saying to her while she was ‘gone’.  When she did the woman broke down in tears. 

I know her well and she would have no reason to make up this story or lie to me.  I don’t know what happened to her, it’s possible it was all in her mind, but she said she observed her body from another vantage point and that she felt totally alert and alive and conscious, and that there was nothing dream-like about it.

I think things like this deserve to be looked into and not written off as nonsense.

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Posted: 07 December 2008 06:05 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 34 ]  
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selinakyle - 07 December 2008 07:03 AM

When she came to she related what happened to the therapist, including what the therapist was saying to her while she was ‘gone’.  When she did the woman broke down in tears.

That would probably indicate the time to find a new therapist.

selinakyle - 07 December 2008 07:03 AM

I know her well and she would have no reason to make up this story or lie to me.  I don’t know what happened to her, it’s possible it was all in her mind, but she said she observed her body from another vantage point and that she felt totally alert and alive and conscious, and that there was nothing dream-like about it.

I think things like this deserve to be looked into and not written off as nonsense.

I agree, but they need to be looked into critically and responsibly. Three fundamental tenets of logic and science apply here, though I’d argue they’re all Occam’s Razor in different applied forms.

Occam’s Razor: all other things being equal, the simplest solution is the best.
Carl Sagan’s extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
Hume’s Maxim on Miracles (though in this case “paranormal” should be substituted for “miracle”): No testimony is sufficient to establish a paranormal event, unless the testimony be of such a kind, that its falsehood would be more paranormal than the fact which it endeavors to establish.

The witness’ integrity need not be questioned in order for the account to come up short as evidence. Your friend’s account may be completely accurate, but it doesn’t establish that anything actually happened outside of her perceptions. In other words, there’s no reason to conclude from your friend’s account that what she experienced happened in any way independently of her own mind. In short, what happened in her story was far more likely due to distorted perception than to accurately perceived actual events. Or, in the simplest if perhaps less diplomatic terms, most likely she imagined it.

This is perfectly normal for humans though. I find it telling when people react negatively to this suggestion, because there’s no reason to feel insulted or offended because you’ve been “accused” of functioning like a normal person. The only valid issue in play that might cause offense is the suggestion of gullibility or credulity, but that really shouldn’t be an issue unless the victim of the offense is emotionally invested in the given perception, and that requires the lack of an adult degree of applied intellectual discipline and humility (”my perceptions are above the normal human weaknesses”). Reality is in no way obliged to accommodate our perceptions or desires (or anything else about us).

So OBEs seem to be perfectly valid experiences, but there’s nothing sufficient of which I’m aware to consider them “real” (i.e. independent of the mind in which they’re experienced).

Byron

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“We say, ‘Love your brother…’ We don’t say it really, but… Well we don’t literally say it. We don’t really, literally mean it. No, we don’t believe it either, but… But that message should be clear.”—David St. Hubbins

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Posted: 07 December 2008 07:30 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 35 ]  
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My friend didn’t interpret that experience as proof that the bible or Jesus or the God of Abraham were real, which some people might have done.  And in relating this story I’m not trying to prove it either.  There’s a lot to explore in the area of altered states of consciousness, a lot of mysteries to unravel.  Some atheists and free-thinkers would stop the discussion right there and say she was just hallucintating or she was crazy. 

I think the most profound thing for her was the fact that it was humanly possible to feel that good, especially since she suffered from anxiety and depression for a long time.

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Posted: 07 December 2008 08:02 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 36 ]  
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selinakyle - 08 December 2008 12:30 AM

My friend didn’t interpret that experience as proof that the bible or Jesus or the God of Abraham were real, which some people might have done.  And in relating this story I’m not trying to prove it either.  There’s a lot to explore in the area of altered states of consciousness, a lot of mysteries to unravel.  Some atheists and free-thinkers would stop the discussion right there and say she was just hallucintating or she was crazy.

Actually I’d argue the same thing but for nearly the opposite reason—that because your friend has displayed relatively normal and easily explainable human behavior nothing about her experience or testimony indicates further research would likely be of value.

selinakyle - 08 December 2008 12:30 AM

I think the most profound thing for her was the fact that it was humanly possible to feel that good, especially since she suffered from anxiety and depression for a long time.

Does that not suggest an impetus for her experience to you?

It also might cast the therapist’s reaction in a much more favorable light—could be she was moved by your friend’s progress, which certainly wouldn’t lead me in the direction I suggested previously. In any case it sounds like it may have been a very significant positive psychological development for your friend, and a very powerful experience for her as well, and that all sounds good to me. It would be a shame if it ends up encouraging her to become credulous and uncritical though. That could unravel the progress, and maybe continue on from there.

Byron

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“We say, ‘Love your brother…’ We don’t say it really, but… Well we don’t literally say it. We don’t really, literally mean it. No, we don’t believe it either, but… But that message should be clear.”—David St. Hubbins

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Posted: 08 December 2008 07:59 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 37 ]  
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I had a similar out of body experience in the fall of 1972, but just considered it as an experience somewhat out of the ordinary.  I was asleep, then dreaming (?) that I was sitting up out of my body (a sensation like trying to rise out of mud) and floating across the room.  There were various other aspects to it that seemed to provide me with information I couldn’t have gotten directly.  It could all have been a rather weird dream for all I know, certainly can’t be taken as evidence of anything other than that such experiences happen.  About 15 years later I found out that if small devices that vibrate are attached to right and left forearms and set to vibrating the sensation feels as if it is out in space between the arms—sort of like our 3-dimensional visual space arising out of binocular vision—so the brain is capable of projecting at least simple sensations.  The real trick would be learning how to do an out of body experience consciously LOL .

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