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Do most christians believe in wizards?
Posted: 25 May 2005 07:05 PM   [ Ignore ]  
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The bible mentions wizards quite a bit.

Leviticus 19:31 Regard not them that have familiar spirits, neither seek after wizards, to be defiled by them: I [am] the LORD your God.
Leviticus 20:6 And the soul that turneth after such as have familiar spirits, and after wizards, to go a whoring after them, I will even set my face against that soul, and will cut him off from among his people.
1 Samuel 28:3 Now Samuel was dead, and all Israel had lamented him, and buried him in Ramah, even in his own city. And Saul had put away those that had familiar spirits, and the wizards, out of the land.
1 Samuel 28:9 And the woman said unto him, Behold, thou knowest what Saul hath done, how he hath cut off those that have familiar spirits, and the wizards, out of the land: wherefore then layest thou a snare for my life, to cause me to die?
2 Kings 21:6 And he made his son pass through the fire, and observed times, and used enchantments, and dealt with familiar spirits and wizards: he wrought much wickedness in the sight of the LORD, to provoke [him] to anger.
2 Kings 23:24 Moreover the [workers with] familiar spirits, and the wizards, and the images, and the idols, and all the abominations that were spied in the land of Judah and in Jerusalem, did Josiah put away, that he might perform the words of the law which were written in the book that Hilkiah the priest found in the house of the LORD.
2 Chronicles 33:6 And he caused his children to pass through the fire in the valley of the son of Hinnom: also he observed times, and used enchantments, and used witchcraft, and dealt with a familiar spirit, and with wizards: he wrought much evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger.
Isaiah 8:19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?
Isaiah 19:3 And the spirit of Egypt shall fail in the midst thereof; and I will destroy the counsel thereof: and they shall seek to the idols, and to the charmers, and to them that have familiar spirits, and to the wizards.

Do most christians really believe in wizards?

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Posted: 25 May 2005 08:06 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]  
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and quick to anger”. Gildor Inglorion of the House of Finrod.

  Middle-Earth aside, I think you would do well to define what you mean by “wizards”. If you mean wizards,like Gandalf and Saurman of Tolkien’s work,old men in pointy hats, carrying staffs and casting spells,I would say even most christians don’t believe in that
“merlinesque” type of wizard.

  On the other hand, I do think a large percentage of christians (if not most) believe in magical,occult forces that have their
origins in satan. Therefore, many christians (and other religionists)
believe that some people work with these “diabolical forces”. They
may call a female “occultist”, a “witch” and a male a ,“wizard”.

Someone like the infamous,late British occultist, Aleister Crowley
would probably qualify as a “wizard” in the eyes of many religionists. Crowley may have even considered himself a “wizard”
but he would probably not agree that his alledged “powers” came from “satan”. Now there are a substantial number of people in the
modern world who identify themselves as “satanists”. However,their beliefs are just as diverse as those of alot
of other groups. Many “satanists” do not believe in “satan”
as an actual being. They simply use the name metaphorically.

  There are a very small and marginalized group of actual “devil-worshippers”, in the world. Their beliefs are merely an inversion of
christianity and just as irrational and ridiculous.On very rare occasion,some of these clowns have commited hideous crimes.
The notorious “night stalker”, aka the serial killer Richard Ramirez
was one of these. He is currently sharing the luxurious accomodations of San Quentin’s death row with Scott Peterson
and similiar human refuse.

  There are ofcourse countless people in the world who believe in magick, the occult,the new age etc….Most of them claim to have nothing to do with satanism or “evil”. However irrational their beliefs may be,MOST are quite harmless and often well-meaning,decent citzens. Too many christians believe
any form of spirituality that is not christian is satanically-inspired.

  The one thing all the aforementioned have in common is they are all supported by insufficient evidence.
A belief in “wizards” is no more or less
irrational than a belief in the virgin birth and most other things many christians believe in.

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Posted: 25 May 2005 09:17 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]  
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ha, another connection !!

“wizard” is also use for someone intelligent, or very good at some intellectual pursuit, like MR WIZARD !!

clearly, this ties intellectualism to the DEVIL !!

begone you evil wizards with your damable technological familiars !!

(sarcasm)

I agree with the above poster, most Christians I talk with are extremely moderate, and while they believe in evil, and that people that mess with the occult are being fooled by the devil, I don’t think they believe in wizards and witches as powerful beings that actually exist.

I just asked my cat to reverse global warming as a test, but apparently familiar spirits aren’t as powerful as they used to be.

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Posted: 26 May 2005 04:36 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]  
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Miss Bliss,

If memroy serves, the correct spell is:

Eye of newt, and toe of frog,
Wool of bat, and tongue of dog,
Adder’s fork, and blind-worm’s sting,
Lizard’s leg, and howlet’s wing,
For a charm of powerful trouble,
Like a hell-broth boil and bubble.

Try this with the cat in the room and you’ll find the global temperature will drop a few degrees.

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Posted: 26 May 2005 06:04 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]  
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Certainly the bible mentions wizards, witches, mediums, spiritists, seers and the like. It also mentions that they are an abomination to God. All who practice such things will not receive salvation.

- Nor did they repent of their murders, their magic arts, their sexual immorality or their thefts. Revelation 9:21

- But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death. Revelation 21:8

- Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. 13I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

Nuff said, now you know…....

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Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light. Matt 11:28-29

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Posted: 26 May 2005 10:11 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]  
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[quote author=“TheChampion”]Certainly the bible mentions wizards, witches, mediums, spiritists, seers and the like. It also mentions that they are an abomination to God. All who practice such things will not receive salvation.

- Nor did they repent of their murders, their magic arts, their sexual immorality or their thefts. Revelation 9:21

- But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death. Revelation 21:8

- Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. 13I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

Nuff said, now you know…....

Yes, I know now that you do believe in wizards, witches, mediums, spiritists, seers and the like.  I expected nothing less from TheChampion

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Posted: 26 May 2005 11:03 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]  
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I sure believe in the magic arts and their power. Of course, I have nothing to do with them as I am commanded to steer clear….“how can a man take fire into his bosom and not get burned???”

And in the end result, “greater is he that is in me than he that is in the world…”

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Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light. Matt 11:28-29

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Posted: 26 May 2005 12:03 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]  
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[quote author=“TheChampion”]I sure believe in the magic arts and their power. Of course, I have nothing to do with them as I am commanded to steer clear….“how can a man take fire into his bosom and not get burned???”

And in the end result, “greater is he that is in me than he that is in the world…”

I sure would like for you to realize soon how ridiculous you sound, not to mention the bible.

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Posted: 26 May 2005 12:12 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]  
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[quote author=“TheChampion”]I sure believe in the magic arts and their power. Of course, I have nothing to do with them as I am commanded to steer clear….“how can a man take fire into his bosom and not get burned???”

And in the end result, “greater is he that is in me than he that is in the world…”

Right.  I understand you believe in magic.  So why don’t you go out and find a wizard and kill him like the bible commands?  smile

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Posted: 26 May 2005 01:28 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]  
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Champion, how many people do you know that practice “the magical arts”? I happen to know many personally and intimately.
With a few exceptions, I find most to be infinitely more decent,ethical,compassionate,etc….than your heroes,
Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell. Yes,their beliefs are
basically just as irrational as your own. I believe
Mahatma Gandhi held irrational beliefs as well.
Once again, you have demostrated your titanic
ignorance. Why don’t you get off the computer and
get to know a few people who practice alternative
spiritualities and then tell me if you think “the devil”
has anything to do with their beliefs. Oh well,who am
I kidding? The first sight of magic circle would having
you fumbling for a crucifix. Watch out for those Wiccans :twisted: .

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Posted: 26 May 2005 02:31 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]  
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Hi ShieldAxe, I cannot fulfill your request. I am bounded by my master, Jesus Christ, and to follow his commands, as are all Christians. Therefore I pray for the salavation of these folks and that God will pour out his spirit and cause revival across the land.

Landulf II, you mention Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell. I believe these are good men who do good works. Which of those good works do you condemn them for?

You say your friends are just as compassionate as the above folks. Well great. That’s just great. It won’t get them to heaven though. The bible says:

- We are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousness are as filthy rags. Isaiah 64:6
- As it is written, there is none righteous, no not one. Romans 3:10
- All have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. Romans 3:23

So you see, we all need a savior. Robertson and Falwell are just men who needed a savior as well. So spread the news. Better yet, buy a bible and get to know the gospel of Jesus Christ.

The bible promises you that you will not be disappointed!

Come to the Lord, the living stone rejected by people as worthless but chosen by God as valuable. Come as living stones, and let yourselves be used in building the spiritual temple, where you will serve as holy priests to offer spiritual and acceptable sacrifices to God through Jesus Christ. 6For the scripture says, “I chose a valuable stone, which I am placing as the cornerstone in Zion;
and whoever believes in him will never be disappointed.
1 Peter 2:4-6

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Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light. Matt 11:28-29

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Posted: 26 May 2005 03:41 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]  
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[quote author=“TheChampion”]Hi ShieldAxe, I cannot fulfill your request. I am bounded by my master, Jesus Christ, and to follow his commands, as are all Christians. Therefore I pray for the salavation of these folks and that God will pour out his spirit and cause revival across the land.

Landulf II, you mention Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell. I believe these are good men who do good works. Which of those good works do you condemn them for?

You say your friends are just as compassionate as the above folks. Well great. That’s just great. It won’t get them to heaven though. The bible says:

- We are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousness are as filthy rags. Isaiah 64:6
- As it is written, there is none righteous, no not one. Romans 3:10
- All have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. Romans 3:23

So you see, we all need a savior. Robertson and Falwell are just men who needed a savior as well. So spread the news. Better yet, buy a bible and get to know the gospel of Jesus Christ.

The bible promises you that you will not be disappointed!

Come to the Lord, the living stone rejected by people as worthless but chosen by God as valuable. Come as living stones, and let yourselves be used in building the spiritual temple, where you will serve as holy priests to offer spiritual and acceptable sacrifices to God through Jesus Christ. 6For the scripture says, “I chose a valuable stone, which I am placing as the cornerstone in Zion;
and whoever believes in him will never be disappointed.
1 Peter 2:4-6

And again I say: “I sure would like for you to realize soon how ridiculous you sound, not to mention the bible”.

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Posted: 26 May 2005 05:05 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]  
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Why is Champion even here? He doesn’t seem to be interested in actually discussing anything or truly exchanging ideas.

He must be one of those Salt People.

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Posted: 26 May 2005 05:36 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]  
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Champion, if you don’t already know how Sam Harris, most people on this forum (with you as the notable exception) and
millions,nay probably billions of people inside and outside,of
the USA feel about people like Robertson/Falwell, then I refuse
to spell it out for you. Mostly Anything I would say about them would be extremely redundant. Suffice to say they are aspiring theocrats,among countless other things, I and many others here, usually don’t associate with “good men/good works”(whatever that means exactly).

  Your existence seems to consist of making limitless posts on an internet forum where your ideas are reviled and constantly ridiculed
and watching ,“american idol” rolleyes . Have you nothing better to do? Isn’t it obvious by now you will most likely never convert anyone here? Is there not a way in which you could better serve
your “master” Jesus? 

I assure you that by posting here, you do more harm for your cause than good. As i’ve said before, I doubt whether your reasons for posting here have much to do with converting anyone
and spreading the gospel. Whether you realize it ,or not I think your motivations have their roots in a substantially disturbed
psyche.

    Then again, I think alot of people who try to convert others and/or “spread the gospel” are mentally ill. I do not at all think all christians are seriously mentally ill, but after reading your posts
for months,I would bet dollars to donuts you are. If not, perhaps you are some sort of agent? LOL . Yeah, I know an “agent for the lord” rolleyes .

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Posted: 26 May 2005 05:44 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]  
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Cynthia Wrote

Why is Champion even here? He does’nt seem to be actually interested in discussing anything or truly exchanging ideas.


  I hope I atleast gave you some potentially valid insight^^^^^^^ :idea: .

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Posted: 26 May 2005 06:39 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]  
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Cynthia, so good of you to join us. Contraire…we all are exchanging ideas and discussing many topics, from crude oil production, to wizards, to politics, to economics, to the sins of the left wing…..DOH!

So there has been a wonderful exchange of ideas on this forum. However, at times I try to throw in ideas that may possibly bring glory to the most high, the almighty, the Lion of Judah, King of Kings, etc. (nothing wrong with that, right?). One would think that these clear concepts presented from the bible would draw you folks toward repentence. The gospel can set you free (the truth will set you free). However, surprisingly, these concepts are readily rejected by people “too smart” to receive them, or is it spiritual blindness:

The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

For who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ. (taken from 1 Corinthians)

Hence, Cynthia, if you do not have the spirit, you haven’t a clue what I am talking about. BUT WAIT! Do not discount the Holy Spirit which can use the word of God to draw you to salavation. I pray it happens for you, my dear.

Landulf II, you completely sidestepped the question. You are badmouthing Falwell and Robertson and haven’t provided a single solitary example of why? Again, I ask you (this time with righteous anger), which of their good works do you condemn?????

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Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light. Matt 11:28-29

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