Sam Harris

[quote author=“rogerflat”]So, as it stands for homosexuality, the majority of people are straight.  The “misfires” of humanity are gay. I believe if we tune in our scopes we can eliminate those misfires altogether and get everyone on target the way they SHOULD be.

How very “Final Solution” of you.

[quote author=“Jefe”]Perhaps you have not experienced any first hand accounts of lefties being persecuted, but they are evident in history (even recent history) so I think here, your opinion is one that comes from ignorance.

My mom, a leftie, got the ruler in grade school for writing with her left hand. She’s around 65 now. Do the math.

Of course his opinion comes from ignorance. So did Hitler’s.

It also depends on what the topic of discrimination is about.  If it is discrimination against drug users or convicts then it is not really discrimination, it is instead a justified predjudice. But with homosexuality it seems to be different. The bleeding heart of liberalism compels us to not discriminate against them. Some of us buy into that and yet others don’t.

It really boils down to the individual.  Some people like gays, I know that girls, in particular, like to befriend them and for some reason think that it is “cute” for a guy to act like a woman.  I’m not a girl so that is not my experience. Others, I assume, are neutral and not bothered by being around gays one way or another. Again, those people experience life differently than myself.

For me, I don’t want to be around it, I don’t want my family to be effected…infected by homosexuality.  I’m certainly not going to condone or embrace something that I dislike for whatever personal reasons I may have and regardless of whether others feel those reasons are justified.  I never implied that there should be an offensive attack against homosexuals.  So if they want to do it discretely then I’ll accept that.  But I still feel that homosexuality, whether acquired at birth or during one’s life, is a disease.  It may indeed not be curable but it is still pathological. 

We shouldn’t expect diseased people to up and cure themselves, but we certainly don’t want them to be around us healthy people. Maybe one day there will be a gay equivalent to a leper colony.  After all, an all gay island would be a gay person’s paradise wouldn’t it?

First:

So, as it stands for homosexuality, the majority of people are straight. The “misfires” of humanity are gay. I believe if we tune in our scopes we can eliminate those misfires altogether and get everyone on target the way they SHOULD be.

Then:

I never implied that there should be an offensive attack against homosexuals.

You contradict yourself at every turn.

It also depends on what the topic of discrimination is about. If it is discrimination against drug users or convicts then it is not really discrimination, it is instead a justified predjudice. But with homosexuality it seems to be different. The bleeding heart of liberalism compels us to not discriminate against them. Some of us buy into that and yet others don’t.

Hey, it’s all good. As long as you have someone to discriminate against is really the important thing! I mean, how could you survive without someone to put down?

On the flip side, what would we all talk about if everyone had the same opinion?

Don’t hate the player, hate the game.

A bigot is a label (which may or may not be warranted). A homosexual is a lifestyle (which is what it is). The interchangeability of those terms doesn’t work as easily as you think jefe.

You contradict yourself at every turn.

I never said how I intended on eliminating the “misfires”.  What I had in mind was things like NOT molesting children and other preventative measures.  Not sending them to the gas chamber.

[quote author=“rogerflat”]. . .
For me, I don’t want to be around it, I don’t want my family to be effected…infected by homosexuality. . . .

Rogerflat, it seems obvious, is coming out publicly. He either has sexual feelings for men or has an overactive imagination. Why else would the possibility of being “infected by homosexuality” even occur to him? He knows himself well enough to recognize his potential orientation.

Roger, has anyone called you a fuckhead yet today? I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and claim first dibs.

[quote author=“rogerflat”]Not a lot of lefties killing themselves because they feel obligated to write right handed. Not a lot of lefties dying from AIDS. Not a lot of lefties who were molested as children. Not a lot of lefties having problems getting married and otherwise fitting into society in normal left handed relationships.

If you want to link homosexuality with AIDS, and child molestation you are going to have to provide evidence for that.

How many times do you need to be told this?

Suppose I told you that everybody with blue eyes got cancer. Now suppose that you showed me reliable stats from a reputable body that disproved that notion, and showed no link between blue eyes and cancer.

If I kept making the link between blue eyes and cancer, in the face of you having proven me wrong, I’d be an idiot. And this would show that me belief is based on a prejudice towards people with blue eyes.

Now I think that you can see the connection here. You might have forgotten where the evidence is, but I’ve got your back. Its right here .

This is why people (at least myself) see you as homophobic, and frankly as a huge douche. If you want to keep linking homosexuality to these things, or to anything at all you’re going to have back it up with something.

If you want to keep linking homosexuality to these things, or to anything at all you’re going to have back it up with something.

And yet I have. I posted a couple links both stating that 3/4 of gays were molested as children. One of them was from the mouth of a gay man himself! Matters not, because there was always “something” which made what I was posting irrelevant.

The link to AIDS and homosexuality is so well known that I will not even waste my time posting the myriad links documenting it.

So, yeah, put that in your pipe and smoke it douche baggins.

[quote author=“rogerflat”]

If you want to keep linking homosexuality to these things, or to anything at all you’re going to have back it up with something.

And yet I have. I posted a couple links both stating that 3/4 of gays were molested as children. One of them was from the mouth of a gay man himself! Matters not, because there was always “something” which made what I was posting irrelevant.

Roger, your “proof” to support your hypothesis was drummed up by the far right homophobic Pastor Haggards of the world who funded this bogus science by snatching the hard earned tithing dollars from the wallets of their flock and spending it in mass hysteria to get the gays once and for all.

Pastor Haggard is now ousted on his ear from his high position because he went and got man handled by his gay masseusse one too many times.  His lover turned on Pastor Haggard and now after three weeks of intense therapy Pastor Haggard is now “cured” of his homosexual tendencies.  Do you believe that?  That must be some heavy shit you are smoking.

So, yeah, put that in your pipe and smoke it douche baggins.

**takes a big draw… holds it…** cough cough….. ‘eer, it’s a bit lippy but, your turn to take a hit now.

Nogginlicious

Noggin, sounds like you are the one smoking bammer. Haggard truly is the world’s biggest douche btw.

But keep in mind that a fact from an idiot does not make it a lie. And a lie from a genius does not make it a fact. That fallacy is usually the core of theistic arguments.

Also, the hard core theists are the only ones with a vested interest in bringing to light the undesirable truths behind homosexuality. That’s probably why my facts stem from those kinds of sites. Most everyone else it seems is happy with the liberal/hippy illusion that we can all love each other no matter what our sex is and everything is fine and dandy.

I’m of a different belief, however.

[quote author=“rogerflat”]Noggin, sounds like you are the one smoking bammer. Haggard truly is the world’s biggest douche btw.

Haggard… Haggard… Haggard.

But keep in mind that a fact from an idiot does not make it a lie. And a lie from a genius does not make it a fact. That fallacy is usually the core of theistic arguments.

a fact from an idiot deserves much scrutiny before we can call it a fact.

Also, the hard core theists are the only ones with a vested interest in bringing to light the undesirable truths behind homosexuality. That’s probably why my facts stem from those kinds of sites.

probably.  It’s not like only gay men fight against the notions you assert.  I’m not gay, have read both arguments… particularily your side ad infinitum because that is what I was fed for three decades by my church… and have concluded that the evidence weighs in favor of sexual orientation at birth.

The religious right fund the “facts” they produce because they think god hates gays and declared that gay men and women should be killed.  There is an agenda. 

**disappointedly** We can’t kill gays today so we must prove that they are confused, denying what god has called holy, and choosing to be gay (interpreted: choosing to be evil). 

There is no other reason why they do it.  They feel totally threatended.

They cannot stand to read facts like:

“In an analysis of 905 men and their siblings, Canadian psychologist Anthony Bogaert found no evidence that social interactions among family members played a role in determining whether a man was gay or straight. The only significant factor was the number of times a mother had previously given birth to boys. ...

Each older brother increased the chances by 33%.”
source: http://www.borngayprocon.org/pop/brothers.htm

and many others like this.  The weighty facts pile up quickly that humans can be born gay.

and then look at this study done by Spitzer (a theist btw):

Does conversion therapy help people change their sexual orientation?
source:http://www.gayprocon.org/bin/procon/procon.cgi?database=5-E-Subs-2.db&command=viewone&op=t&id=10&rnd=325.96288555209855

where Spitzer, I would say rather dishonestly, cherry picks 200 names from ex-gay ministries and examines them as to how likely they are to have changed their sexual orientation:

“This study tested the hypothesis that some individuals whose sexual orientation is predominantly homosexual can, with some form of reparative therapy, become predominantly heterosexual. The participants were 200 self-selected individuals (143 males, 57 females) who reported at least some minimal change from homosexual to heterosexual orientation that lasted at least 5 years….

and when it went out for review:

Psychobiologist Qazi Rahman, Ph.D. stated in a 10/2/03 article in the U.K. Guardian, “Row as Researcher Claims Gays Can Be ‘Straightened,’‘’ by Polly Curtis:

“My main concern is the method. He [Spitzer] relied on self-reports from a select sample of individuals. They were not your average gay or lesbain man—they were mostly from ex-gay ministries and organisations involved in [reparative therapy].

ATTENTION!!
TOTAL AGENDA FROM SPITZER, (the theist)!!!  Did he choose functional normal gay men and women?  NO.  He chose gay men and women completely racked with guilt from god for who they choose to sleep with.  These were self admitted into the “reparative therapy” program!  What were they going to say?  That they did the program and, yup, still were evil in God’s view?  Of course not.  They wanted to change.  They were resolved to change.  And by god they were GONNA change!  Enter Spitzer and his “study”.

How can it get any more rabid than this?  Yet it does!  Nearly every hit for “Gays Choose Their Lifestyle” has some really far out flaw just like the above that makes the intellectually honest scratch their heads in disbelief that some scientist actually published it.

Most everyone else it seems is happy with the liberal/hippy illusion that we can all love each other no matter what our sex is and everything is fine and dandy.

I’m of a different belief, however.

Okay.  But if men have sex with lizards and women with donkeys… that still does not affect what you choose to do with your ability to be sexual in any way.  I don’t get why you or anyone else has a problem with it.  Neither you or they cannot change what you are/ who you love.  Yet you would have them live an unfulfilled life. 

Question:
What if the world was weighted the other way around?  What if the world was 80% gay and lesbian and 20% heterosexual, roger?  And what if some guy on a forum somewhere was belly aching about how you preferred women and you should be forced to prefer men?  What if there was an overwhelming consensus that you must love men or be considered loathsome and evil by the majority?  But you just didn’t care for men… you even tried to conform but you could not do it… and you never did care for men… you just want to have sex with women… plain and simple leave me alone.  How would you feel?

Noggin

[quote author=“rogerflat/Hitler”]So, as it stands for homosexuality, the majority of people are straight.  The “misfires” of humanity are gay. I believe if we tune in our scopes we can eliminate those misfires altogether and get everyone on target the way they SHOULD be.

Do we need to keep this going? We’re dealing with a sick puppy. Does anyody need any more evidence? He said it, and then came back with:

I never said how I intended on eliminating the “misfires”. What I had in mind was things like NOT molesting children and other preventative measures. Not sending them to the gas chamber.

Ohhhhh!  You’re really not deluded after all! You ought to check in to the loony bin.
[quote author=“H.H. Goddard/rogerflat”]We shouldn’t expect diseased people to up and cure themselves, but we certainly don’t want them to be around us healthy people. Maybe one day there will be a gay equivalent to a leper colony. After all, an all gay island would be a gay person’s paradise wouldn’t it?

You’re a sicko, roger. At least gays would live peacefully, as most assimilated ones actualy do. A quarantined island of bigots like yourself, however, would eventually kill each other off, needing to feed your anger somehow. Maybe that’s what we need. Honestly, I hope someone reports you, not on this board, but in “real life.” You need a good analyst.

HH, I wish there was an atheist saying equivalent to the christian “I will pray for you” in regards to your lifestyle choice. Because I would pray for you in that I pity you. Imagine what you could’ve been like as a normal man.

Of course gays are content with heteros being hetero. A) gays are vastly outnumbered, so to rally against the heteros for being straight would not be wise, and B) The gays are the ones doing something wrong, so OF COURSE they just want to be accepted as opposed to pushing their beliefs on others.  Heteros are the ones with something to lose and thats why many speak out against gays.

It’s one thing to go against a religious or cultural belief.  Homosexuality is against most (abrahamic) religions and the patriarchal cultures of most all nations place the man as a “manly” person and not a girly/gender confused homo. Gays don’t fit into religions or most cultures.  Although they have gained representation in television recently do to the novelty value of laugh value of seeing gay men behave flambouyantly.  (Btw, they’re laughing at you guys, not with you

In addition to going against religious and cultural norms (the religious part I have no problem with btw), gays also violate the natural state of being that humans are to assume.  And that’s the whole point….being gay is bass ackwards in virtually all respects.

[quote author=“rogerflat”]HH, I wish there was an atheist saying equivalent to the christian “I will pray for you” in regards to your lifestyle choice. Because I would pray for you in that I pity you. Imagine what you could’ve been like as a normal man.

You love to take the patronizing tone, don’t you? I consider myself much more “normal” than you as far as being a self-actualized human being. How horrible it must be to see the world through the eyes of a homophobic bigot, one who knows no better.

Of course gays are content with heteros being hetero. A) gays are vastly outnumbered, so to rally against the heteros for being straight would not be wise,

Spoken like a real “moral majority” member, eh? Feel good to be a bully? Your testosterone boiling yet? Can you say that with a little Nazi flair?

and B) The gays are the ones doing something wrong, so OF COURSE they just want to be accepted as opposed to pushing their beliefs on others.  Heteros are the ones with something to lose and thats why many speak out against gays.

Heteros have nothing to lose, never had, never will. You sure pulled that one out of thin air. But should I be surprised?

It’s one thing to go against a religious or cultural belief.  Homosexuality is against most (abrahamic) religions and the patriarchal cultures of most all nations place the man as a “manly” person and not a girly/gender confused homo.

You choose to stereotype what you see on t.v., maybe you should stop watching so much Will and Grace, huh? Most gay guys I’ve known are pretty average Joes. Most would probably make you look effeminate.

Gays don’t fit into religions or most cultures.

That’s an opinion informed by your own bigotry. We fit in just fine, thanks.

Although they have gained representation in television recently do to the novelty value of laugh value of seeing gay men behave flambouyantly.  (Btw, they’re laughing at you guys, not with you
)

Rallying your invisible friends around you again? Who are “they” who are laughing? And really, look at this board: you got a whole lot of straight people and a few gays who would be laughing at you if they weren’t so disgusted. Feeling the effects, Roger?

In addition to going against religious and cultural norms (the religious part I have no problem with btw), gays also violate the natural state of being that humans are to assume.

That comment is so devoid of any meaning whatsoever, it deserves no response.

And that’s the whole point….being gay is bass ackwards in virtually all respects.

No, sir, that would be you. You’re just a Nazi in sheep’s clothing, attempting to cover up your own sickness by calling others sick.

Analysis, man. It will save your “soul.”