[quote author=“rogerflat”]Noggin, sounds like you are the one smoking bammer. Haggard truly is the world’s biggest douche btw.
Haggard… Haggard… Haggard.
But keep in mind that a fact from an idiot does not make it a lie. And a lie from a genius does not make it a fact. That fallacy is usually the core of theistic arguments.
a fact from an idiot deserves much scrutiny before we can call it a fact.
Also, the hard core theists are the only ones with a vested interest in bringing to light the undesirable truths behind homosexuality. That’s probably why my facts stem from those kinds of sites.
probably. It’s not like only gay men fight against the notions you assert. I’m not gay, have read both arguments… particularily your side ad infinitum because that is what I was fed for three decades by my church… and have concluded that the evidence weighs in favor of sexual orientation at birth.
The religious right fund the “facts” they produce because they think god hates gays and declared that gay men and women should be killed. There is an agenda.
**disappointedly** We can’t kill gays today so we must prove that they are confused, denying what god has called holy, and choosing to be gay (interpreted: choosing to be evil).
There is no other reason why they do it. They feel totally threatended.
They cannot stand to read facts like:
“In an analysis of 905 men and their siblings, Canadian psychologist Anthony Bogaert found no evidence that social interactions among family members played a role in determining whether a man was gay or straight. The only significant factor was the number of times a mother had previously given birth to boys. ...
Each older brother increased the chances by 33%.”
and many others like this. The weighty facts pile up quickly that humans can be born gay.
and then look at this study done by Spitzer (a theist btw):
Does conversion therapy help people change their sexual orientation?
where Spitzer, I would say rather dishonestly, cherry picks 200 names from ex-gay ministries and examines them as to how likely they are to have changed their sexual orientation:
“This study tested the hypothesis that some individuals whose sexual orientation is predominantly homosexual can, with some form of reparative therapy, become predominantly heterosexual. The participants were 200 self-selected individuals (143 males, 57 females) who reported at least some minimal change from homosexual to heterosexual orientation that lasted at least 5 years….
and when it went out for review:
Psychobiologist Qazi Rahman, Ph.D. stated in a 10/2/03 article in the U.K. Guardian, “Row as Researcher Claims Gays Can Be ‘Straightened,’‘’ by Polly Curtis:
“My main concern is the method. He [Spitzer] relied on self-reports from a select sample of individuals. They were not your average gay or lesbain man—they were mostly from ex-gay ministries and organisations involved in [reparative therapy].
TOTAL AGENDA FROM SPITZER, (the theist)!!! Did he choose functional normal gay men and women? NO. He chose gay men and women completely racked with guilt from god for who they choose to sleep with. These were self admitted into the “reparative therapy” program! What were they going to say? That they did the program and, yup, still were evil in God’s view? Of course not. They wanted to change. They were resolved to change. And by god they were GONNA change! Enter Spitzer and his “study”.
How can it get any more rabid than this? Yet it does! Nearly every hit for “Gays Choose Their Lifestyle” has some really far out flaw just like the above that makes the intellectually honest scratch their heads in disbelief that some scientist actually published it.
Most everyone else it seems is happy with the liberal/hippy illusion that we can all love each other no matter what our sex is and everything is fine and dandy.
I’m of a different belief, however.
Okay. But if men have sex with lizards and women with donkeys… that still does not affect what you choose to do with your ability to be sexual in any way. I don’t get why you or anyone else has a problem with it. Neither you or they cannot change what you are/ who you love. Yet you would have them live an unfulfilled life.
What if the world was weighted the other way around? What if the world was 80% gay and lesbian and 20% heterosexual, roger? And what if some guy on a forum somewhere was belly aching about how you preferred women and you should be forced to prefer men? What if there was an overwhelming consensus that you must love men or be considered loathsome and evil by the majority? But you just didn’t care for men… you even tried to conform but you could not do it… and you never did care for men… you just want to have sex with women… plain and simple leave me alone. How would you feel?