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Southern Baptist leader admits people are born gay…
Posted: 02 April 2007 05:33 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 346 ]  
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roger. . . I no longer buy your claim that you’ve had actual friends  who are gay. That would only be possible if 1) they didn’t know the truth about the person they were calling ‘friend’, or 2) if they were ‘doormat’ types without the slightest sense of human self-worth.

You present a friendly [read: totally dishonest] face to them, breaking bread with them in their homes— or, in the case of your threesomes with the bi girls, screwing them—but you keep the One Truth under wraps: that they are truly just spineless sicko addicts to you, people who might spread their gay disease if you let them get too close. “Lock up the children so they don’t catch the gay! And lock me up, too, since I’m really that weak  in my orientation!”

I’ll just go out on a limb and guess that if one of your dear gay friends were to read this thread, they would not be so warm and fuzzy to you afterwards. If they ever were your friends, it was based on your withholding the truth about what you are.

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Posted: 02 April 2007 05:59 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 347 ]  
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[quote author=“rogerflat”]

If you want to keep linking homosexuality to these things, or to anything at all you’re going to have back it up with something.

And yet I have. I posted a couple links both stating that 3/4 of gays were molested as children. One of them was from the mouth of a gay man himself! Matters not, because there was always “something” which made what I was posting irrelevant.

The link to AIDS and homosexuality is so well known that I will not even waste my time posting the myriad links documenting it.

So, yeah, put that in your pipe and smoke it douche baggins.

In my post that has the summerized evidence I included every sourced opinion that backed you up.

On your side there was: “some religious website”, Tim Hardaway, familyresearchinst.org , and Kelly Patricia O’Meara.

Thats one phatom site, one blatently homophobic religious site, idiot Tim Hardaway, and a journalist.

If you really think that they are more credible than the American Journal of Psychiatry, American Psychological Association, American Psychiatric Association, Public Health Agency of Canada, Centre for Infectious Disease Prevention and Control, Health Canada, UNAIDS/WHO,  and numerous studies, then I’m not sure what to tell you.

I’m a musician, and not a scientist so I’ll admit that I could be wrong. However, I’m not sure why all of these reputable bodies would intentionally lie, and supress data.

Do you think that there’s some kind of a gay conspiracy or something? That people choose to be gay so that they can somehow infect you, and then hide the scientific data that show’s their true motives in being gay?

What kind of nuttery makes you take your 4 idiots over 7 reputable bodies, and numerous studies?


PS- Here ‘s the post with the evidence (though it obviously doesn’t contain any of the evidence posted after it, like Noggin’s new stuff).

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Posted: 03 April 2007 04:14 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 348 ]  
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To believe that seven reputable bodies know the cause of homosexuality is about as stupid as believing Tim Hardaway (who I don’t remember quoting) is the one true source of Truth.

I said from the outset that there is not, nor could there be, a way to fully determine what makes people gay.  You could’nt cast a net far enough to ask all gays and you couldn’t scientifically say that they responded truthfully. So to say that the American Pyschiatric blah blah blah has discovered the “mystery” behind homosexuality is daft.

When pressed, again and again, to provide evidence to back up my claim, I provided links to others, who like me, said the EXACT same thing about child molestation and homosexuality. And also, like I called out, this information was dismissed quickly for one reason or another.

Keep in mind that what you guys don’t see are the homosexuals sitting at home biting their fingers because they want to chime in on this thread but they would feel hypocritical berating me considering that they, like many others, are among the many child molestation victims converted to gaydom.

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Posted: 03 April 2007 04:57 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 349 ]  
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[quote author=“rogerflat”]To believe that seven reputable bodies know the cause of homosexuality is about as stupid as believing Tim Hardaway (who I don’t remember quoting) is the one true source of Truth.

What kind of “backassward” logic is that, Roger? The exact opposite is true, and you know it, which, of course, discounts what follows. But allow me anyway….

I said from the outset that there is not, nor could there be, a way to fully determine what makes people gay.  You could’nt cast a net far enough to ask all gays and you couldn’t scientifically say that they responded truthfully. So to say that the American Pyschiatric blah blah blah has discovered the “mystery” behind homosexuality is daft.

“Daft” compared to quoting religious Christian conservatives, or “daft” because Roger says it’s daft?

When pressed, again and again, to provide evidence to back up my claim, I provided links to others, who like me, said the EXACT same thing about child molestation and homosexuality. And also, like I called out, this information was dismissed quickly for one reason or another.

You’re parroting them, not vice versa. What a sad and uninformed platform to stand on.

Keep in mind that what you guys don’t see are the homosexuals sitting at home biting their fingers because they want to chime in on this thread but they would feel hypocritical berating me considering that they, like many others, are among the many child molestation victims converted to gaydom.

And you see them, don’t you? Just like your other imaginary friends laughing at us? Rallying non-existent support for your no-substance arguments is one of your most pathetic ploys, Roger.
But most pathetic is your obvious addiction to alienation via discrimination. I suppose some people are just uncomfortable without an enemy.

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Posted: 03 April 2007 05:10 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 350 ]  
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Of course nobody knows the exact reason people are gay, I’m sorry if I implied that I thought somebody did.

The point that I was making is that these studies cited are from reputable organizations who, as far as I know, are honest and have no interest either way in what “causes” homosexuality.

There’s simply no reason for them to lie. Seven reputable bodies from different countries, and one of which is an international organization, have no reason to lie in this study.

These organizations have data that points to homosexuality not being overtly linked with AIDS, nor child molestation. These are organizations who put out massive amounts of data on all manner of health issues. I would consider them trust worthy.

Your homophobic religious site, phantom religious site, and one journalist are yet to earn my trust. I’m also suspect of any “ex-gay” organization because they have a vested interest in the matter. If homosexuality is a choice, then the ex-gay organization is validated, and can continue to exist. If its not, then the ex-gays are just a group of people that should be in therapy. It would come as no surprise that they emphasize information that validates their organization.

Health Canada, the APA, WHO, these are organizations with no interest either way. If homosexuality is a choice, it doesn’t effect any of them, and if its not then it still doesn’t effect them. There is no reason for me to suspect that they are skewing data.

You’re acting like there is some kind of a gay conspiracy to keep the “true cause” of homosxuality under wraps.

Be honest, do you really think that there is a conscious effort by the organizations I, and others, have cited to lie about the cause of homosexuality?

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Posted: 03 April 2007 06:08 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 351 ]  
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HH, you seem to use the Christian “missing link” excuse to cast doubt on everything I say.  Since I can’t prove there are gays that were molested then it means gays aren’t molested as children.  Since we don’t have teh missing links skeletal remains, then that means there never was one and therefore God is real.

It’s a good ploy since it is outwardly true.  Yes, I don’t have pictures and video of all gays being molested as children.

You guys continue to dismiss the relevance of those with vested interests protecting their interests and not contradicting themselves by witholding evidence.  If a pro-gay organization wants to promote gay rights, why would they provide evidence which shows how bad being gay really is?  They wouldn’t.  Just like a molested gay wouldn’t admit on this thread that he/she was molested.

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Posted: 03 April 2007 07:12 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 352 ]  
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Continuing on an increasingly doomed path of logic, having lost all credibility, Roger says:

[quote author=“rogerflat”]HH, you seem to use the Christian “missing link” excuse to cast doubt on everything I say.  Since I can’t prove there are gays that were molested then it means gays aren’t molested as children.  Since we don’t have teh missing links skeletal remains, then that means there never was one and therefore God is real.

I need make no effort to cast doubt on your comments. They’re inherently flawed and expose themselves immediately without any help at all from me.

It’s a good ploy since it is outwardly true.  Yes, I don’t have pictures and video of all gays being molested as children.

If you had pictures or videos, I’d assume you’re sicker than I already assume you are.  Just evidence, please.

You guys continue to dismiss the relevance of those with vested interests protecting their interests and not contradicting themselves by witholding evidence.

And you continue to ignore the relevance of reputable scientific oraganizations with no vested interests whatsoever.

If a pro-gay organization wants to promote gay rights, why would they provide evidence which shows how bad being gay really is?


Appealing for civil rights and winning them is a historical phenomenon carried out by populations who are aware of their rightful place in society.  History shows the success of African-Americans and women, to name a couple On the other hand, groups like the KKK, the Nazis, the eugenics movement, and any other racist/homophoic/bigoted groups who’ve attempted to gain control have ultimately failed due to their inherent immorality. That’s where you come in. When there’s really something “bad” about a group, they’re ultimately quashed. Any “badness” comes from outside in regards to homosexuality. We know there is nothing inherently bad about it, despite the best efforts of bigots like yourself to prove otherwise.

Just like a molested gay wouldn’t admit on this thread that he/she was molested.

Even if he/she did admit this, it wouldn’t prove anything except that one gay person was molested. But you imagine a plethora of shaking gays, don’t you? Your squad of imaginary proof-bearers.

Another go, Roger?

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Posted: 03 April 2007 07:27 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 353 ]  
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I have another story to share of an experience with a gay person.  This man works in the building next to mine. He has what I call the “gay-mobile.” It is an old beat up aqua colored Saturn and he has all kinds of rainbow stickers alll over it. One bumper sticker says “I’m happy the way I am.”  The best part is that on his back wind shield in big rainbow sticker letters it reads: “I love Tiffany and Ace of Base.”  I don’t know if he means Tiffany as in the 80s pop star or if it is the leader of ace of base or what. Regardless it is absolutely juvenile not to mention highly gay. He also has dolls propped up in the back seat as though they are looking out the windows and even they are holding rainbow flags. Wow.

Now this fellow is a pathetic looking young man. Unfortunately for him he has some sort of physical abnormality because his arms are noticably short for his body. So this got me thinking.

Not many girls out there are looking for men with deformed arms.  So maybe, just maybe, he had no choice but to be gay since no girl would want him any way. That would also explain his “I’m happy the way I am sticker” because it is his way of coping with his deformity.

His outlandish display of gayness on his car is just another way for him to deal with the fact that he had to be gay and live a life of a deformed gay man, which I’m sure he’d rather not do if he had a choice in the matter.

The point being is that this is all a way for him to cope with things he is unhappy about. I don’t drive around in my “hetoro-mobile” with camouflage lettering saying “I love football.”  I don’t need to validate my sexuality and state of being to others because I don’t have any misgivings about it. This guy obviously does though.

So here is yet another example of a real life gay person that I have first hand experience with.  I rarely encounter the well-adjusted good-lookers that you all claim is representative of the gay population. Usually all I ever see are the opposite of that.

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Posted: 03 April 2007 08:04 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 354 ]  
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Hey Roger,

As long as we’re using anecdotal evidence, here’s a true story about a flaming homophobe for you:

He was born with some unfortunate birth defects because of his mother’s drinking and drug problems.  He has a crooked mouth and mis-shapen limbs.  While I don’t know the details, he was abandoned by both parents and raised by his grandparents.  That may be what led to his over-eating.  He clearly uses food as a drug and has openly said it’s how he deals with grief.  Even though he’s only 41, he looks like he’s in his fifties.  The years clearly haven’t been kind to him.  Really, it’s a sad story and I do pity the man for what he’s been through. 

Despite his physical deformaties and weight problem, he only chases after the youngest, prettiest and thinnest girls around.  That’s probably why he doesn’t have a girlfriend and, as far as I know, hasn’t had one at any time since I met him 20 years ago.  He’s a pretty lonely guy as far as anyone knows.

Once, he bought a hetero-mobile of sorts.  He bought a pick-up truck even though he had a clerical job and has no need for one either in his personal or professional life.  When asked why he bought it, he says he can haul anything around in it but can only name one occassion when it was needed (when he moved from one apartment to another). 

On a recent occassion, he spoke of his feelings of lust for one woman he’d seen.  He remarked openly and with some obvious pride, “I ain’t no fag.”  It’s not the first time he’d made such a remark. 

One another occassion, when asked why he hated gays so much, he said quite bluntly and honestly, “I’m more of a man than they are.”

Clearly, he takes pride in his homophobia as a method of feeling superior to gays.  A lifetime of rejection by women has clearly taken its toll on his sense of manhood and his self-esteem, so he needs to feel superior to some other group. 

Insecurity leads to bigotry.  Really, it’s not hard to understand.

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Posted: 03 April 2007 08:10 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 355 ]  
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roger allow me to disturb you again.

from the website: http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_caus.htm

Conflicting quotations—two from each side:
1.  “There is no scientific data that substantiates a genetic or biologic basis for same-sex attraction. Anybody can change.”  Richard Cohen, at the year 2000 PFOX, (Parents and Friends of Ex-Gays) convention.

2.  “Homosexuality & heterosexuality are likely to be the result of an interaction of several different factors, including genetics, hormonal & environmental factors. Psychological & social influences alone cannot cause homosexuality.” PFLAG Oakland - East Bay. 1

3.  “To date, all information and studies involving genetics have proven homosexuality to be environmental, not genetic.” PFOX web site. 2

4.  “Research suggests that the homosexual orientation is in place very early in the life cycle, possibly even before birth. It is found in about ten percent of the population, a figure which is surprisingly constant across cultures, irrespective of the different moral values and standards of a particular culture.” Statement on Homosexuality, American Psychological Association, 1994-JUL.

Now.  Item #1 has Richard Cohen as the authority figure on the statement.  Richard Cohen, the guy who was expelled from the American Counseling Association for unethical counseling practices.  This is their authority.  source:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Cohen_(author)

please see Richard Cohen giving his hug therapy with gay men he is trying to “repair” or convert back to heterosexuality here:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/ef/Cohensholding.jpg/180px-Cohensholding.jpg

The man is a hack.  But the religious right eats HIM UP!!

Then item #2:  Religioustolerance.org puts a “pro” quote out from an organization called PFLAG (parents and families of lesbian and gays)

http://www.pflag.org/

when they could have quoted Kinsey or some of the other many qualified source materials out there.  They put a gay website with non scientific linkage up there for a reason.

I won’t go on to items 3 & 4.  You get the drift and I am on a time crunch right now.  But my point is that, again, you can see the bias and case making going on.  People who love the god who hates gays tune into websites like this and nary a minute wasted questioning the sources.  I hope some will questoin the methodology.

Noggin

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Posted: 03 April 2007 09:19 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 356 ]  
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[quote author=“rogerflat”]I have another story to share of an experience with a gay person.  This man works in the building next to mine. He has what I call the “gay-mobile.” It is an old beat up aqua colored Saturn and he has all kinds of rainbow stickers alll over it. One bumper sticker says “I’m happy the way I am.”  The best part is that on his back wind shield in big rainbow sticker letters it reads: “I love Tiffany and Ace of Base.”  I don’t know if he means Tiffany as in the 80s pop star or if it is the leader of ace of base or what. Regardless it is absolutely juvenile not to mention highly gay. He also has dolls propped up in the back seat as though they are looking out the windows and even they are holding rainbow flags. Wow.

Now this fellow is a pathetic looking young man. Unfortunately for him he has some sort of physical abnormality because his arms are noticably short for his body. So this got me thinking.

Not many girls out there are looking for men with deformed arms.  So maybe, just maybe, he had no choice but to be gay since no girl would want him any way. That would also explain his “I’m happy the way I am sticker” because it is his way of coping with his deformity.

His outlandish display of gayness on his car is just another way for him to deal with the fact that he had to be gay and live a life of a deformed gay man, which I’m sure he’d rather not do if he had a choice in the matter.

The point being is that this is all a way for him to cope with things he is unhappy about. I don’t drive around in my “hetoro-mobile” with camouflage lettering saying “I love football.”  I don’t need to validate my sexuality and state of being to others because I don’t have any misgivings about it. This guy obviously does though.

So here is yet another example of a real life gay person that I have first hand experience with.  I rarely encounter the well-adjusted good-lookers that you all claim is representative of the gay population. Usually all I ever see are the opposite of that.

So you think that no woman would have him.  OK.  Let’s assume that you are right.  No woman would have this man.  But roger, how is it that this would cause him to develop an attraction to other men?  Without being attracted to other men he would not be gay.  He would be a straight man who, for whatever reason, is having sex with men.  You don’t sem to grasp this for some reason.  Gay men are gay because they are attracted to other men.  They are not interested in being with women.  And even if no women were interested in them, that would not turn them gay because it has nothing to do with whom they are attracted to.

In my experience gay men are no less attractive than straight men.  But in general gay men are more concerned with their appearance.  The gay culture is youth-obssessed and all about looks.  So appearance matters.  And so most gay men I know work out like crazy, and, I gotta tell ya, they look darn good.  I don’t know where you live, but where I live most gay men really do look like Will Truman.

So your little hypothesis is just pathetic.

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Posted: 03 April 2007 09:46 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 357 ]  
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You don’t sem to grasp this for some reason. Gay men are gay because they are attracted to other men. They are not interested in being with women. And even if no women were interested in them, that would not turn them gay because it has nothing to do with whom they are attracted to.

The thing about psychopathology is that it changes your physical behavior even though it stems from your brain.  Gayness is not in the body, its in the brain.  Once you are resigned to fornicating with the only sex that will let you, you essentially become gay. Part of the neuroses is that you take on the role that you know you have no choice but to assume. This is also why children who grow up to be gay feel compelled to assume the role as “gay” since they were forced to assume that as a child when they were molested.

[ Edited: 03 April 2007 10:21 AM by ]
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Posted: 03 April 2007 10:04 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 358 ]  
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After reading what rogerflat just wrote, I have one thing to say.

I’m done with this.

I hereby declare that rogerflat has taken on the persona of a troll in this thread.  I think he is just enjoying getting the best of us all riled up.  He’s…. aw forget it.

So that is two things, and now I am finished.

Noggin

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Posted: 03 April 2007 10:42 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 359 ]  
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[quote author=“rogerflat”]You guys continue to dismiss the relevance of those with vested interests protecting their interests and not contradicting themselves by witholding evidence.  If a pro-gay organization wants to promote gay rights, why would they provide evidence which shows how bad being gay really is?  They wouldn’t.  Just like a molested gay wouldn’t admit on this thread that he/she was molested.

So you really think that Health Canada, the APA, WHO, and everyone who was cited here is actively supressing data on homosexuality in order to lie about its cause?

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Posted: 03 April 2007 10:57 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 360 ]  
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I like that quote, “Research suggests…” As though that is sufficient as to make a definitive conclusion on what this suggested research proves just by stating “Research suggests”. What’s the research?! It seems both sides of this debate are hindered by inconclusive, biased, and poorly gathered evidence.

These other organizations aren’t suppressing data necessairly, but they are providing incomplete evidence and making the best possible conclusion based on what they have.

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