1 of 2
1
Does the Christian Church Practice Witchcraft?
Posted: 28 April 2007 07:58 AM   [ Ignore ]  
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  2136
Joined  2006-02-20

Does the Christian church practice witchcraft?  Does it threaten people with violence?  Does it put a hex on people?  A jinx?

For example, consider the statement, "Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, or you will go to hell and live in agony forever."  Is this a hex?  A jinx?  Is this witchcraft?

As another example:  I've heard that if you are given the Book of Mormon, read it, and reject it (as God's truth etc.) you will go to hell.  Could a superstitious person not suffer acute anxiety, or worse, by being hexed like this by someone they consider an authority? 

Consider the Jonestown Massacre where people were hexed into murdering their own children, then committing mass suicide.  About 900 died in all.  http://www.infoplease.com/spot/jonestown1.html

Close to home on this Sam Harris Forum, please read rosel's topic in the Faith (General Issues) category:  'Scared Straight'.  Here is a woman coping with fear on a daily basis. 

Considering how much damage can be done to a person's peace of mind and ability to enjoy life, (surely on a par with being stalked, or receiving threatening phone calls) - do the lawyers on the Forum not feel that the entity, or entities, that caused these irrational fears, that made the threats, can be sued?

Has there ever been such a case in a U.S. court of law?  Surely it would be easy to prove that the plaintiff has been threatened, and was suffering on a daily basis as a result of the threats.  (again, see rosel's post in the Faith category).

 Signature 

“The simple fables of the religious of the world have come to seem like tales told to children.”  - Nobel Prize recipient - Francis Crick

“It is time we recognized the boundless narcissism and self-deceit of the saved.” - Sam Harris

Profile
 
 
Posted: 28 April 2007 10:12 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]  
Member
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  308
Joined  2006-10-18

Witchcraft? Eh. Sadistic book club? Absolutely.

You HAVE to read this book.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 10 May 2007 02:24 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]  
Jr. Member
RankRank
Total Posts:  70
Joined  2007-04-29

Perhaps if the legal system were based upon “justice,” in a society that was based upon true logical thought and not the nonsensical, and varied versions of the Bible, such a case might have a chance, but since the judges and juries would most likely be made up of people who buy into the greatest myth ever told, it would not.  Then there’s the problem of who the defendent would be.  Would it be Christ, St. Paul, or a particular church?  What if the person had been to more than one church?  I like the idea, though.

I think a brilliant athiest should run for office (in a blue state, of course,) and then the true debate about christianity would have a chance to make the mainstream media. 

Anyone out there who fits this profile?  We could all band together and work the campaign…..smile

[ Edited: 11 May 2007 11:03 AM by ]
Profile
 
 
Posted: 10 May 2007 05:10 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]  
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  5404
Joined  2006-09-27
[quote author=“msdiver”]We could all ban together

Yes. But what should we ban? If we do not ban together, we surely will ban separately.

My personal choice would be to ban stupidity, followed immediately by banning typographical errors.  :D

 Signature 

INVEST in cynicism!

Profile
 
 
Posted: 10 May 2007 06:10 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]  
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  2927
Joined  2006-12-17
[quote author=“Salt Creek”][quote author=“msdiver”]We could all ban together

Yes. But what should we ban? If we do not ban together, we surely will ban separately.

My personal choice would be to ban stupidity, followed immediately by banning typographical errors.  :D

“Stupidity is the only universal capitol crime….”

If the idea behind the Darwin awards is correct, evolution is slowly taking care of the stupidity genes.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 11 May 2007 03:10 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]  
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  5404
Joined  2006-09-27
[quote author=“burt”]“Stupidity is the only universal capitol crime….”

Capital offenses are those with the most exacting penalties.

Or else you are making a pun here about the IQ of government officials. If not, you have made a spelling error. These should be banned as well. Make everyone write using a phonetic alphabet that is symbolically exact. Then anyone’s dialect could be “standard”. Good luck.

Here’s an idea: Being incorrect should be banned. Even the idea of correctness should be banned. Anything goes, eh, burt? Consciousness will make it turn out all right in the end. The big Universal Consciousness in the sky.

Some societies do not practice capital punishment. Is there CP in Canada, burt? Puns are punishment enough.

 Signature 

INVEST in cynicism!

Profile
 
 
Posted: 11 May 2007 03:27 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]  
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  3208
Joined  2007-04-26
[quote author=“unsmoked”]For example, consider the statement, “Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, or you will go to hell and live in agony forever.” Is this a hex? A jinx? Is this witchcraft?

I don’t see a practical difference between that and witchcraft. While it’s not actionable, it certainly amounts to a negative definition of people and an invasion of mental boundaries.

[quote author=“msdiver”]I think a brilliant athiest should run for office (in a blue state, of course,) and then the true debate about christianity would have a chance to make the mainstream media.

Sam Harris for President in ‘08? Dawkins could be VP except he’s a British citizen.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 11 May 2007 03:41 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]  
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  2927
Joined  2006-12-17
[quote author=“Salt Creek”][quote author=“burt”]“Stupidity is the only universal capitol crime….”

Capital offenses are those with the most exacting penalties.

Or else you are making a pun here about the IQ of government officials. If not, you have made a spelling error. These should be banned as well. Make everyone write using a phonetic alphabet that is symbolically exact. Then anyone’s dialect could be “standard”. Good luck.

Here’s an idea: Being incorrect should be banned. Even the idea of correctness should be banned. Anything goes, eh, burt? Consciousness will make it turn out all right in the end. The big Universal Consciousness in the sky.

Some societies do not practice capital punishment. Is there CP in Canada, burt? Puns are punishment enough.

Well, it was a spelling error, but could also apply to a member of the current Canadian government who believes that the world is 6000 years old.  The quote was from Lazarus Long smile  and I couldn’t recall the exact wording of the rest of it, something about punishment being exacted at some random moment with no appeal.  That was the connection to the Darwin awards. 

I was very frustrated in my 12th grade english class—got A’s and A+‘s on all the essays but failed the spelling tests so got a B in the course.  Perhaps the problem with being taught to spell English phonetically rather than just memorizing lists of words.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 11 May 2007 03:45 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]  
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  5404
Joined  2006-09-27
[quote author=“burt”]a member of the current Canadian government who believes that the world is 6000 years old.

Every government should have a couple to keep around as pets, and to remind us that the business of governing is only about 6000 years old. To some bureaucrats, the government is the world. You know, the world government we are all hoping for.

 Signature 

INVEST in cynicism!

Profile
 
 
Posted: 11 May 2007 08:04 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]  
Jr. Member
RankRank
Total Posts:  70
Joined  2007-04-29

okay, I wasn’t wearing my reading glasses and didn’t notice the typo…...should I receive the death penalty?  smile  Human nature is funny.  They tend to notice one mistake and ignore all that is good…..so be it, i’ll flog myself for it….smile

Profile
 
 
Posted: 11 May 2007 08:35 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]  
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  2136
Joined  2006-02-20
[quote author=“Carstonio”][quote author=“unsmoked”]For example, consider the statement, “Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, or you will go to hell and live in agony forever.” Is this a hex? A jinx? Is this witchcraft?

I don’t see a practical difference between that and witchcraft. While it’s not actionable, it certainly amounts to a negative definition of people and an invasion of mental boundaries.

[quote author=“msdiver”]I think a brilliant athiest should run for office (in a blue state, of course,) and then the true debate about christianity would have a chance to make the mainstream media.

Sam Harris for President in ‘08? Dawkins could be VP except he’s a British citizen.

OK, Sam for President in ‘08.  However, in order to have a chance for victory, we will need God on our side.

God:  Unsmoked!  Did I just hear my name mentioned?

Unsmoked:  Geez!  You startled me!  Um, yes, I was just saying that in order for Sam to win the presidential election, we’ll need you on our side, but, of course, since you don’t exist, I was just being . . . “

God:  Good idea!  Tell you what, I’ll change my name!

Unsmoked:  Change your name?  Into what?  Pie in the Sky?  Just kidding.

God:  No.  How about, ‘Whadiz’?

Atheist 1:  Whadiz?  I like it.  What’s the catch?  Why would you help us?

Whadiz:  Well, all the Christians are worshipping my nemesis, ‘Whadisn’t’,
so I’m ready to throw in my lot with you guys.  Sam for President?  I like it.  Time for Whadiz, instead of Whadisn’t.

Atheist 2:  So, atheists are the only people who really appreciate you and know you?

Whadiz:  Bingo.  Thank you for your support.  Everyone else is fascinated with Whadisn’t - namely, fantasy, folklore, hocus-pocus, virgin mothers, walking dead, outlandish creation myths, TV charlatans as my spokesmen . . . I’m sick of it.  With me on your side, Sam and Richard have a chance. 

Atheist 3:  Just a friggin’ minute, Whadiz; where do you stand on health care?

Atheist 4:  Hey!  Maybe we can get him to part the Red Sea and drown all the Taliban?

Atheist 5:  No!  Idiot!  Then people won’t be able to tell him apart from Whadisn’t!

Unsmoked:  Ladies!  Gentlemen!  Let’s not quibble over details!  This is the break we’ve been waiting for!  Call Sam!  Somebody get a fake birth certificate made for Dawkins!  We’ll say that, as a baby, he was found floating down the Potomac in a basket .  .  .

[ Edited: 11 May 2007 08:42 AM by ]
 Signature 

“The simple fables of the religious of the world have come to seem like tales told to children.”  - Nobel Prize recipient - Francis Crick

“It is time we recognized the boundless narcissism and self-deceit of the saved.” - Sam Harris

Profile
 
 
Posted: 11 May 2007 08:40 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]  
Member
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  734
Joined  2007-03-10
[quote author=“unsmoked”][quote author=“Carstonio”][quote author=“unsmoked”]For example, consider the statement, “Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, or you will go to hell and live in agony forever.” Is this a hex? A jinx? Is this witchcraft?

I don’t see a practical difference between that and witchcraft. While it’s not actionable, it certainly amounts to a negative definition of people and an invasion of mental boundaries.

[quote author=“msdiver”]I think a brilliant athiest should run for office (in a blue state, of course,) and then the true debate about christianity would have a chance to make the mainstream media.

Sam Harris for President in ‘08? Dawkins could be VP except he’s a British citizen.

OK, Sam for President in ‘08.  However, in order to have a chance for victory, we will need God on our side.

God:  Unsmoked!  Did I just hear my name mentioned?

Unsmoked:  Geez!  You startled me!  Um, yes, I was just saying that in order for Sam to win the presidential election, we’ll need you on our side, but, of course, since you don’t exist, I was just being . . . “

God:  Good idea!  Tell you what, I’ll change my name!

Unsmoked:  Change your name?  Into what?  Pie in the Sky?  Just kidding.

God:  No.  How about, ‘Whadiz’?

Atheist 1:  Whadiz?  I like it.  What’s the catch?  Why would you help us?

Whadiz:  Well, all the Christians are worshipping my nemesis, ‘Whadisn’t’,
so I’m ready to throw in my lot with you guys.  Sam for President?  I like it.  Time for Whadiz, instead of Whadisn’t.

Atheist 2:  So, atheists are the only people who really appreciate you and know you?

Whadiz:  Bingo.  Thank you for your support.  Everyone else is fascinated with Whadisn’t - namely, fantasy, folklore, hocus-pocus, virgin mothers, walking dead, outlandish creation myths, TV charlatans as my spokesmen . . . I’m sick of it.  With me on your side, Sam and Richard have a chance. 

Atheist 3:  Just a friggin’ minute, Whadiz; where do you stand on health care?

Atheist 4:  Hey!  Maybe we can get him to part the Red Sea and drown all the Taliban?

Atheist 5:  No!  Idiot!  Then people won’t be able to tell him apart from Whadisn’t!

Unsmoked:  Ladies!  Gentlemen!  Let’s not quibble over details!  This is the break we’ve been waiting for!  Call Sam!  Somebody get a fake birth certificate made for Dawkins!  We’ll say that, as a baby, he was found floating down the Potomac in a basket .  .  .

Very clever.  Move this conversation back to 100 A.D. and you could start your new religion!  :twisted:

Profile
 
 
Posted: 11 May 2007 10:30 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]  
Jr. Member
RankRank
Total Posts:  70
Joined  2007-04-29

I think Sam should really consider a run for congress or president.  As for ‘08, I predict another republican win.  In a country where right wing fundamentalist Christians are taking over, a woman or a man of color doesn’t have a chance. Why?  The Bible says a woman cannot lead a man, and it’s okay to have a slave.  Since those appear to be the best choices the democrats have to offer, I predict the republicans will slide back in.

On another front, I have to say that at times some of you people can be very unfriendly.  I don’t understand why, but you’ll end up with a limited gene pool by driving people away.  It’s hard enough to deal with the nuts on the highways on the way to work and some of the nuts people have as bosses or coworkers. Not a lot of people are going to want to come on here and take a bunch of crap from cyber people.  For instance, it’s easy to mock me for a typo because I disclosed my occupation and location.  I’ve noticed that most people have not done so.  Is that because they might be held accountable in the same way that I am?  I don’t know.  It seems like some posts are meant to humiliate and intimidate, and usually people who do that are trying to elevate themselves at other people’s expense.  I don’t get a lot of pleasure from making other people feel that I’m better read or more knowledgeable than they are. 

Okay, pull out your swords and guns, and satisfy your zeal for blood…:)

Profile
 
 
Posted: 11 May 2007 10:33 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]  
Jr. Member
RankRank
Total Posts:  70
Joined  2007-04-29

The debate dialogue is very good..smile

[ Edited: 11 May 2007 11:00 AM by ]
Profile
 
 
Posted: 11 May 2007 10:52 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]  
Jr. Member
RankRank
Total Posts:  70
Joined  2007-04-29

very funny that I was basically called stupid for a typo to which someone jumping on the condemnation band wagon then used the wrong “capitol.”  Really, I hope I don’t have to scrutinize every word or comma I write here in order to prove my intellect is worthy.  Do I need to remind people of how hubris brings down the tragic hero?

Profile
 
 
Posted: 11 May 2007 05:40 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]  
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  2136
Joined  2006-02-20
[quote author=“msdiver”]okay, I wasn’t wearing my reading glasses and didn’t notice the typo…...should I receive the death penalty?  smile  Human nature is funny.  They tend to notice one mistake and ignore all that is good…..so be it, i’ll flog myself for it….smile

It’s interesting to read journals from the 1800’s or before.  Merry Weather Lewis was a master of interesting spelling.  However, I realize that ‘ban’ was just a typo.  You’d think Spelling Police would be the last thing you’d find in a forum like this.

Spelling Police:  Do you know why I pulled you over?

Unsmoked:  Yes, I said ‘Merry Weather’ instead of Meriwether.

Spelling Police:  Could I see your license please?

Unsmoked:  Know.

Spelling Police:  Know?  Know what?

Unsmoked:  No thank you.

Spelling Police:  Step out of the car please.

 Signature 

“The simple fables of the religious of the world have come to seem like tales told to children.”  - Nobel Prize recipient - Francis Crick

“It is time we recognized the boundless narcissism and self-deceit of the saved.” - Sam Harris

Profile
 
 
   
1 of 2
1
 
RSS 2.0     Atom Feed