Damn, ran out of room in the Topic box.
What I want to say here is, since being a Christian Churchgoer is part of many Good American's resumes, how many of these people would still proudly bleet about their "faith" if it were in fact illegal (like under the Patriot Act or something) and punishable by death like in the good ol' days? I bet most would hide under their bunkbeds…....
In the hypothethical (thankfully) situation you describe, I think most christians would quit there faith, atleast publically. That’s
pretty much what happened in the case of communism. But
considering the consequences of “unbelief”(eternal damnation)
according to them, I doubt many would abandon it entirely. Again,
I would never support this kind of thing. I only want christians to
cease this imposition of their beliefs upon the rest of us.
Perhaps if it were found that it was detrimental to society, making it illegal to practice religion wouldn’t be such a bad idea. I wouldn’t be surprised if Christians then went on extremist rampages like many Muslims today do, feeling they’re soldiers for their imagined god. Christians certainly didn’t need a government oppressor to go on absurd Crusade rampage, like in their past in the name of their made up God. It probably should have been abolished, as slavery was- the same slavery Christianity’s always been fine with. It should be kept illegal in any sense in the government sphere. Religion should continue to be kept out of government, and government should continue to work to purge itself of any religious references, such as having God on the currency, and the pledge of allegiance. Freedoms can only be maintained by keeping the poison out of government.
The only reason I think there were, and still are underground Christians in communist nations is, because their governments never provided a fair enough reason for why religion is not a good thing. There was never enough spirituality, and space to think freely, and explore the human spirit to its most fulfilling. So people turn to the absurdity in religion to supplement human urge to explore, and create. However, religion’s absurd illogical nature also limits the need to rationally openly vent these needs in ways that actually make a difference, like developing society improving technology.
Communist governments are just too unjustly, unreasonably authoritarian. In order for any society to work, it must be democratic, and encouraging of its peoples. It must educate its peoples extremely with compassionate humanist ideas, while appreciating the growth of a freethought quality of life.
What usually ends up happening in Communist governments is a few political officials (lords) exploit the local working class too much. Being that the working class spends all its time working, it has no time to think as much as the local party think-tank does, devising new ways that serve the think-tank best, it leaves working class members in the dust.
The sad thing is, to a certain degree this also happens in democratic states. It’s natural. People with more resources have more time to think of ways of not only maintaining the resources, but of discovering more ways to gain more, exploit more if possible. In order to truly remain more egalitarian, society must allow itself the ability to siphon resources from the more privleged than it does from the less privileged, while still allowing people the right to retain enough to progress in whatever way one personally sees fit. It must allow individuals the ability to rise above mob rule, not enough for the individual to rise to dictator status on the populace, but all the same, enough to encourage, and appreciate an authentic sense of individuality in each person.
Communism, in its current form, doesn’t work, because it doesn’t carry enough provisions to challenge the potential cruelty of smothering authority, the same kind of oppression people sought to escape from in medieval christian church-run religio-europe. The same, people in mid-east countries are trying to avoid now. Brutal negative force to ensure stability is not a good thing. Such force is not good for the morale of the citizenry. What is good is appreciating everyone’s input, and contribution, through positive esteem rewards.
People just feel pain. It’s an inherent part of everyone’s biology, and overcoming the emotional urge to easily react based on pain, through the will to inflict pain on others, requires responsible emotion managment education- something I refer to as spiritual education. The pleasure side of this education can also be strengthened, so in essence, people become pleasant pain managing everywhere whey go.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Christians then went on extremist rampages like many Muslims today do, feeling they’re soldiers for their imagined god.
They already do. Can you say ‘Eric Robert Rudolph’? Just this past week a gay nightclub in Fayetteville, AR was burned down, the arsonist’s second attempt. Gee, do ya think the arsonist(s) might have been christian?
And thank you, Bliss, for making the appropriate distinction between economic systems and political systems.
Clearly, authoritarianism is always bad.
Communism fails on the large scale because it stagnates the economy, but it can succeed on the small scale (think of an extended family business or a small co-op farm), within a larger capitalist economy, because it’s much easier to establish equity and accountability among the participants.
[quote author=“rabbit”]And thank you, Bliss, for making the appropriate distinction between economic systems and political systems.
Clearly, authoritarianism is always bad.
Communism fails on the large scale because it stagnates the economy, but it can succeed on the small scale (think of an extended family business or a small co-op farm), within a larger capitalist economy, because it’s much easier to establish equity and accountability among the participants.
Communism’s a political movement. It has economic principles in it, but it’s still political.
-economics probably aren’t its strong suit, but if there is something to be labeled the purist Authoritarian party, that’d probably be it.
I’ve got no problem with any politico-economic movements, systems or whatever, except when their philosophical base is either just plain irrationally absurd, or too authoritarian in nature. It’s like choosing between either being willfully insane, or willingly being smothered down by a disdainful bully group.
There should be something like The Positive Reinforcment party, or the Democratic Secularists Party. That’d be sweet :D
I disagree. It’s true that economic issues are, unfortunately, often politicized, but that’s irrational. Instead of throwing around labels, it makes more sense to look dispassionately at the real pros and cons of any economic system in various contexts.
Political systems are merely the tools we use to try to function cohesively, make laws, and maintain order and so forth. Economic systems, by contrast, are not always predicated by a particular political system.
It seems you’re confusing communism with Marxism.
[quote author=“rabbit”]Political systems are merely the tools we use to try to function cohesively, make laws, and maintain order and so forth. Economic systems, by contrast, are not always predicated by a particular political system.
Marxism is a system of thought that’s influenced other political systems of organization, such Communism, Socialism, and Dialectical Materialism.
Economic systems are used to help society function cohesively, and there are laws on economic principles, and laws to enforce economic principles, so I wouldn’t distinguish so much between economics in politics. They do blur into one-another. Some governments are based on economics. Some political systems make their politics economic in nature. I wouldn’t say it’s an easy line to draw.
Don’t think it didn’t have some influence on Fascism and Nazism too. This influence was not always “negative”(the nazis opposing communism). Many Nazis and Fascists still held great respect for
Marx for certain ideas. Also, many ofcourse were former socialists
and even communists, before they became strutting, bellowing,
red-hating, Fascists and Nazis. That would include Mussolini, Goebbels and Ernst Roehm, just to name a few.
As they leave, I’ll be the one yelling, “Don’t let the screen door hit ya where evolution split ya!”
One would think we’d have more than enough trouble with our own seccesionist wackos!! As though every year’s new “jack booted” crop of Caditiots at El Cid isn’t enough. Didn’t we learn our lesson from that relatively “recent unpleasentness?” The last damn thing we need is a bunch of loonytoon christidioits “from off” moving down here like a hord of palmetto bugs, squirrling up traffic like they’re a bunch of Floridiots or something. Reminds me of being Hugo’d, only worse. At least Hugo went away! These idiots wont!
And what are all those christidiots going to do with themselves? Many SC counties have over 10% unemployment as it is due to the continuing death throws of the textile industry. What are they going to do for pocket money? Empty dung diapers?? Yes, we call ourselves the “Holy City”, but that’s simply because we have so many very old churchs downtown. NOT that anyone actually GOES to them!
Well, with any luck maybe we can keep them up on the “Redneck Riviera” since that’s the part of South Carolina they’re mostly familiar with anyway, thank the supreme being. Or keep them in the Upstate, home of the Bob Jones madrassa.
We’ll stay happily insulated down here in our own “city state”, with our mini-bottles, our culture, playing half rubber and hanging out on Folly. After all, Prohibition didn’t REALLY apply to Charleston much less the diaper dung that eminates from Columbia, so I doubt anything the God’s Republic folks come up with will either.
As usual, we’ll smile in our polite way and simply look down our well bred noses at anything and anyone from north of Upchuck. After all, as any grade school child can tell you, Charleston IS where the Ashley and Cooper rivers come together to form the Atlantic Ocean. :wink:
For those who don’t have one damn clue what I just said….
