Sam Harris

Ways Christianity is just like Amway

Amway has a product that works, but is pricey
Christians have a product that by and large, when pressed to the fence, each christian will say "Say what you will, heathen, it just works for me".  Christianity is pricey in that it requires countless donated hours and also tithes.

Amway depends on recruiting friends who recruit friends
Christianity depends on recruiting friends who recruit friends… note the Jesus Saves and Have you prayed to Jesus today bumper stickers, the mandate to go ye therefore unto all nations baptizing unto the father.  Also note the indoctrinating of newborns in Christian households not to Islam, but to Christianity.

Amway funnels money from their product to the top performers who go on tour speaking about how great Amway is, thus recruiting more to the program.
Christianity sects all funnel money from their product (tithing, book sales) to their top performers who go on tour speaking about how great Christianity is, thus recruiting more to the program.  This money is also spent on large building or gathering places where top performers can preach and perpetuate Christianity.

If you doubt Amway while you sell it, and you tell your upline, immediate aid and support is there for you to get you back on track
If you doubt Jesus, and tell your family, spouse or pastor, they will be there immediately to help get you back on track

Outsiders are called dreamstealers who just want to steal your dream of becoming faulously wealthy
Non Christians are called "goats" in some circles and/or apostates or heathens or gentiles who just want to trip you up and be like them

Amway distributors are required to read daily from the group's reading list so as to fortify their commitment and get themselves out the door to go contacting at the mall or home improvement center.
Christians are required to read daily from the scriptures if they want to fortify themselves and not endanger themselves with temptation

if you leave Amway, you are branded a loser by many stalwart Amway leaders.  Most will not want to associate with you any more because you no longer share their dream. (of becoming fabulously wealthy)
if you leave Christianity, you run a huge risk of being stigmatized and branded, some religions will shun you, others will spread rumors about you like you are an alcoholic so you are living in rebellion to god and had to leave.

Amway recruits are told they can become millionaires with just a little effort each day.  Less than 1% of all distributors become millionaires… but trust them, if you do the work, you will see the reward.
New Christians who are recruited into the fold are told that one day they will have their very own mansion in heaven after they die if they work hard at being a good christian in this life.  Not one person has ever seen a mansion in heaven.  But trust them, of you do the work, you will see the reward.

If your loved ones do not share your Amway dream, ditch them… they will thank you later when you are fabulously wealthy and take them on trips to the Bahamas all the time.  (this still makes me laugh today)
If your spouse decides he no longer believes in your Christian dream of obtaining a mansion in heaven, divorce him, he will thank you later when your display of tough love brings him back in line to your way of thinking.  (true for JW's).  If your friends tell you that Christianity is not true, ditch them and find new friends who are at a minimum impartial to Christianity or better yet, find happy shiny christian friends to hang out with.  But.. you still have to go talk to the non believers because jesus says so… keep bible tracts on hand or pass along card on your person to pass out to people.

Amway meetings are full of emotional people who cry and thank the Amway Opportunity for what it has done for them
Christians meet together and often cry because they are so overwhelmed by what Christ has done for them

Amway has many different groups and subgroups who approach the Amway dream differently, many of which are vehemently opposed one towards the other.
Christianity has many different sects and sub sects who approach Christianity differently many of which are vehemently opposed one towards the other.

Even though Amway has been shown to be financially detrimental to many households who pursue the Amway dream, the federal government will not stop it
I know of many who are pursuing the Christian dream who will give their last farthing to their church thus jeopardizing their financial picture based soley on a passage of scripture found in Malachi.

There is more but this is getting too long.

Noggin

Christians have a product that by and large, when pressed to the fence, each christian will say “Say what you will, heathen, it just works for me”.

Slightly off topic but I wonder if it does.  Does Christianity have a positive effect on the believer’s life?

Of all the friends and former friends I’ve had, the least mature, least successful, least responsible, least proactive and least trustworthy was a devout Christian. 

In terms of responsibility, Christianity fosters this attitude of turning things over to God.  Instead of taking responsibility to failures or honestly evaluating what cause him to fail, Christians might say it was the “will of God” and see it as a sign to change directions.  Instead of trying to learn from past mistakes, they’ll move forward blindly trusting that things are “in God’s hands”.  At least this former friend certainly did. 

Christianity doesn’t do an effective job in promoting morality either.  Although it begins, in my opinion, well, the final conclusion is not helpful.  Christianity starts with the idea that we’re all sinners.  If by “sinner”, you mean that we’ve all done and said things we regret, then yes.  The mature thing to do at this point is apologize to those we’ve wronged, try to set things right and learn from these errors to make sure we don’t do them again, Christianity asks us to simply believe that some guy bled on a cross 2000 years ago and that makes everything better. 

From my observation, both in theory and what I’ve seen in practice, Christianity doesn’t foster growth, either spiritually or morally.  This should be no surprise, as religious leaders like sheep who feel helpless and can be easily led.  They don’t like strong, proactive and self-reliant people.

I’m currently reading American Fascists by Chris Hedges.

In it, Hedges mentions that the founder of Amway also helped form the Council on National Policy, a right wing think-tank that was co-founded by Tim LaHaye of the notorious “Left Behind” series.

Noggin,

You act as though Christianity and Amway are analogous.  They are more than that. They are the same thing!

The reason I say that is because, yes, I too was duped into the Amway system. Of course Amway isn’t called Amway by its practioners. Just like Christians often call themselves Lutherens or baptists or pentacostals, etc., Amway to is compartmentalized into arbitrary subdivisions and each have a dfferent name eventhough they sell the same shit.

Anyway, I was initially sold on “the dream” and began attending meetings. I attended a large meeting at a convention and was taken aback by the strong religious overtones. A group prayer was done at the beginning and end of the meeting. Keep in mind that this was ostensibly a financially motivated gathering.  Imagine going to a get-rich-quick seminar and the whole audience praying together.  It seemed odd.

So, my “sponsor” asked me and my friend at the end of the meeting “What time are you going to church tomorrow?” He said it very matter of fact, as if it was obvious we actually GO to church, and it was a just a matter of what time we’d be done.  Well, my friend and I were as ardent athiests then as we are now so we replied “Uh, we…don’t…go…to…church.”

The sponsor seemed shocked by that. Needless to say, the relationship with him, us, and Amway were short lived from there on out. What I did come to realize is that Amway is big among churches, law enforcement agencies, and any organization that has lots of people in a close knit group like that.  The whole point is for you to get everyone you know involved, so naturally it is prevalent in those types of groups.

Oh yeah, and I was one of the few people who actually took the time to analyze Amway as a business model. (Most people are just sold on the dream and never actually consider the logistical aspects of the business.) It can really only work for big families because everything is sold in bulk. Most people don’t need to order a case of shaving cream every month, but that is the kind of stuff they expect you to buy. It’s just not practical which is why people don’t succeed at it.

The Amway brochure even states that the average income for an Amway seller is $75…per YEAR! So much for the Porsche and beach house they had you setting your sites on.  Just another scam folks.

[quote author=“rogerflat”]Noggin,

You act as though Christianity and Amway are analogous.  They are more than that. They are the same thing!

I haven’t even read the rest of your post and I am already clicking your “quote” button to shoot off a reply.  LOL, You are TOTALLY correct!  I completely forgot about the functions that had prayer and Jesusification heaped upon the head mucky muck leader.

But am I far off the mark with my thread or what?

The reason I say that is because, yes, I too was duped into the Amway system. Of course Amway isn’t called Amway by its practioners.

My group was “Britt WorldWide” oh, that sounded so professional.  Now it sounds like a total con group.  Bill Britt’s wife used to get up there and tell us that when she looked at Bill, all she could see was Jesus.  Creepy.  But that didn’t keep me from buying more Amway.

Just like Christians often call themselves Lutherens or baptists or pentacostals, etc., Amway to is compartmentalized into arbitrary subdivisions and each have a dfferent name eventhough they sell the same s***.

Amway was renamed Quixar right about a year after I left it.

Anyway, I was initially sold on “the dream” and began attending meetings.

I am very mathematical in my approach to formulas for success.  I was told that out of every 10 people I showed the plan to, one would join my Amway group.  You needed 6 highly committed people in your downline to become fabulously wealthy and so…click I did the math.  If I showed the plan to 500 people, 50 would join and of those 50 surely I could find 6 who would be as hard core as I was.

fool proof!!  Let me get to work NOW!!  I mean, time’s a wasting, right?

Except… I was more than the average fool.  I was a Mormon who spent 2 years going door to door cold contacting people.  I honestly thought I would succeed because I possessed the ability to walk up to complete strangers and present things to them… and I had success as a missionary doing that type of thing so voila!  It was a perfect match! eh? no?  In 2 years of full throttle commitment, I signed up one couple (my sister and bro in law) who promptly turned their kit back in after a month.

I attended a large meeting… religious overtones… group prayer ..It seemed odd…“What time are you going to church tomorrow?” ...ardent athiests.. “Uh, we…don’t…go…to…church.”  The sponsor seemed shocked by that.

oh the heresy.  Did your sponsor soil his pants right in front of you?  This is the most uber right wing flag waving Jesus praying crowd I could ever imagine.

Good for you that you actually analyzed Amway.  I sucked 18 months to 2 years of my life into that cult.  Did the “family reunions”, the out of state leadership trainings the whole thing.  The bulk thing is true, but when I was there they were in a frenzy pushing everyone to buy double X multi vitamins and oh! the herbals that supposedly made your pecker stiffer, helped your night vision, helped cure your bowels, etc etc.  I mean one could easily spend $100 a month alone on vitamins.  effen scam!

I maintain my original thought in that Amway is just as big a scam as Christianity is.  It sells you a dream of comfort, and support.  then it polarizes you against everyone who cannot see Jesus like you do.  Then it sucks the life out of you and if you ever try to leave it, you are a loser who just doesn’t get it.

Noggin

Noggin,

Wow. I feel sorry for you for sure. What a waste of time. I never even bought my starter kit before I decided to quit.

But it is so similar to Religion in that it convinces you into believing something that isn’t true [that you can actually make money] and that your faith in the program is enough to make you successful.

Another thing that is similar is that if you were to say to a christian, “I have never heard God speak to me.” or “I don’t think God is doing anything for me aside from what I could do for myself”, then they would tell you the same things that Amway people would tell you if you questioned the legitimacy of Amway as being a viable entrpreneurial business venture. They’d tell you not be negative, to trust them, and to have faith. 

They’d also do what all religions do and PAINT A BEAUTIFUL PICTURE OF THE PIE IN THE SKY THAT AWAITS YOU.  You’ll be a MILLIONAIRE ROGER!  You’ll go to heaven with 70 VIRGINS Akbar! Same difference.

And of course if you want to drop out of Amway or your religion, its also the same story. “You want to be poor all your life and work for someone else?!” “You want to burn in Hell when you die?!”

But it all boils down to logic and common sense. What are you actually talking about here?  No I don’t want to burn. No I don’t want to slave away for a pittance.  But what these people are offering isn’t real.  So in actuality I am going to have the negatives anyway…along with the extra wasted time listening to them.

Show me that its real first, then I’ll go along happily. Whether its haucking dish soap to my downline, or worshiping statues of guys nailed to crosses.

[quote author=“Noggin”]Ways Christianity is just like Amway

I think you have it backward. Amway seems to use evangelical Christianity as a model.

http://www.rickross.com/reference/amway/amway10.html

[quote author=“rab”]In it, Hedges mentions that the founder of Amway also helped form the Council on National Policy, a right wing think-tank that was co-founded by Tim LaHaye of the notorious “Left Behind” series.

I recommend the Slacktivist blog on “Left Behind”:

http://slacktivist.typepad.com/slacktivist/left_behind/

I’m not surprised that Amway would have ties to the religious right. I suspected that when I found out that their distributors were behind the Proctor & Gamble satanism hoax.