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How then shall we live?
Posted: 23 May 2007 04:28 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 31 ]  
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Excellent response, Edge. From what I’ve read, no one has suggested an alternative to Darwin that would not require supernatural causes. Even Lamarck’s ideas were grounded in evolution, although based in acquired characteristics instead of natural selection.

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Posted: 23 May 2007 04:37 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 32 ]  
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[quote author=“nothingbutthebloodofjesus”]Well, prove to me that [God] doesn’t [exist].  I challenge you.


As soon as you prove that my penis doesn’t speak French (or whenever you figure out that the “prove he/she/it doesn’t exist is so plainly dishonest).

Byron

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Posted: 23 May 2007 04:38 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 33 ]  
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[quote author=“nothingbutthebloodofjesus”]Well, prove to me that [God] doesn’t [exist].  I challenge you.


As soon as you prove that my penis doesn’t speak French (or whenever you figure out that the “prove he/she/it doesn’t exist is so plainly dishonest).

Byron

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“We say, ‘Love your brother…’ We don’t say it really, but… Well we don’t literally say it. We don’t really, literally mean it. No, we don’t believe it either, but… But that message should be clear.”—David St. Hubbins

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Posted: 23 May 2007 04:42 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 34 ]  
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[quote author=“SkepticX”]As soon as you prove that my penis doesn’t speak French

The mouth is so small that all the words come out garbled.  LOL

Seriously, the burden of proof is on those who claim that supernatural life exists. Why do many theists act like God’s existence is obvious? If I had never been exposed to religion, the idea of a supernatural supreme being might never have occurred to me. Evidence aside, the idea of attributing natural events to supernatural causes seems counterintuitive to me.

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Posted: 23 May 2007 05:04 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 35 ]  
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[quote author=“Carstonio”][quote author=“SkepticX”]As soon as you prove that my penis doesn’t speak French ...

The mouth is so small that all the words come out garbled.  LOL

[quote author=“SkepticX”] ... in a deep, resonant bass timbre.

[ Edited: 23 May 2007 06:24 AM by ]
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Posted: 23 May 2007 05:19 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 36 ]  
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[quote author=“Carstonio”]Why do many theists act like God’s existence is obvious?

This question revolves around the use of the word “obvious”. In the case of theists, this should be spelled “bovious” (an alternate form of “bovine”).

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Posted: 23 May 2007 05:23 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 37 ]  
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[quote author=“Salt Creek”]In the case of theists, this should be spelled “bovious” (an alternate form of “bovine”).

To quote Green Jello, we should get on our knees and pray to the cow god, who said “Eat my burger, for it is my flesh, and drink my milk, for it is my blood.”  LOL

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Posted: 23 May 2007 05:33 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 38 ]  
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[quote author=“Carstonio”]To quote Green Jello

F**k that s**t. What about Jello Biafra?

No, seriously. That was a good quote. Thanks.

Let us not be cowed by the remonstrations of the theists. For it is udder nonsense, and they will get creamed in the rematch. Cheeses Priced!

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Posted: 23 May 2007 06:20 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 39 ]  
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There are two ways to look at the “gaps” in evolution, and these blind spots are innumerable. Just a few examples of the top of my head, 1) how did membrane-covered eggs laid in water evolve into hard-shelled eggs laid on land, 2) where did lungs come from?, and 3) why did eye lenses develop?

One way to look at these unknowns is to say that they show that the theory of evolution is not consistent, therefore it is not true.  This sort of view usually comes from someone with a different agenda (creationism) who is determined to make this theory appear to be false.  Yet these gaps actually show that what we lack is the data to fill them.  THe reason is that 99% of the species that have occupied the earth over the history of life have disappeared and we have none of their fossil records to bring them “back to life” (metaphorically). In fact one of the essential ingredients of understanding the theory is to look at the whole evolutionary picture with all of the innumerable gaps completely visible.  Anyone who can stand back and look at “all of life” will naturally understand that the blind spots must be there because we simply lack those essential bits of evidence.  Yet those gaps in no way lessen the veracity of the theory.

The other way to look at the gaps is to imagine how they might be filled.  This use of the human imagination is essential to hypothesizing about alternative explanations for the existing forms.  The egg dilemma is very easily “imagined away” - (laying eggs in marshes and peat beds will change the environmental conditions from eggs laid in water, certain types will be better suited to survive, same goes for the membrane coverings, etc., until we eventually see the emergence of bird-like eggs).  The appearance of lungs is largely taken up by the lives of amphibians and the explanation for the emergence of complex eyes can also be imagined by looking closely at the genetics and the stages of development in gestation . . . plus imagination.  This ability to use your imagination to hypothetically “fill in the gaps” goes a long way to showing that the gaps are indeed only a lack of physical evidence (and nothing else).  Of course the imagined fillings could be completely incorrect, but they give us a probable scenario and when the final data is discovered and analysed, it’s not unusual to think “I’d never have imagined such a scenario.” 

Finally, pecking little holes in the theory here and there and then saying that it doesn’t hold up is quite ludicrous when everyone knows that at the level of individual creatures, the theory is obviously (and naturally) full of holes.  One MUST be able to see the big picture when making the assessment as to the credibility of the theory of evolution.  One must take into account that these changes take place over billions of years.  One must know that there is no goal in the process, that every living phenomenon along the way, including all those that presently inhabit this planet are “in the process” of evolving (as species in the big picture of life).  Evolving does not happen at the level of individual creatures.  At this particular level it is the mechanisms that are at play, mutations, selections, survival, etc., but the theory of evolution is about the macro level of life over great expanses of time and space that is the only way to understand it.

Bob

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Posted: 23 May 2007 08:14 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 40 ]  
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I’m still agog to hear NBTBOJ’s scientific bona fides.

My money’s on either a $4.99 framed Smart-Fella’s Certificate from Jim-Bob’s Tire and Bible Store, or a Doctorate in Making It Up As We Go Along from the Ted Haggard Academy of Sticking Our Fingers in Our Ears and Shouting La La La I Can’t Hear You I Can’t Hear You.

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Posted: 23 May 2007 08:34 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 41 ]  
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[quote author=“Occam’s Razor”]I’m still agog to hear NBTBOJ’s scientific bona fides.

My money’s on either a $4.99 framed Smart-Fella’s Certificate from Jim-Bob’s Tire and Bible Store, or a Doctorate in Making It Up As We Go Along from the Ted Haggard Academy of Sticking Our Fingers in Our Ears and Shouting La La La I Can’t Hear You I Can’t Hear You.

I suspect we’ll be waiting for quite some time, and this will mean one of two things:

1. NBTBOJ has gone off and actually earned an advanced degree in a scientific discipline, and now recognizes how science works and that evolution is very-well-supported-thank-you-very-much, or

2. NBTBOJ simply has no further points to make besides reiterations of Behe’s nonsense (I still can’t believe creationists have distanced themselves from Behe)

Either way, we could be waiting a while…

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Posted: 23 May 2007 10:29 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 42 ]  
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[quote author=“nothingbutthebloodofjesus”]

I was making the point that evil exists in everyone

What you really mean to say, is that your subjective interpretation of evil exists in everyone. This so-called evil can be defined in however way that you find convienent and in accordance with your dogma. To some, murdering others in the name of a deity is good. To others it is evil.

Without you, there is no evil as you define it. A contingency that utterly evaporates with the decomposition of the carbon molecules which structure the organic mass also known as your body.

Postulating the existence of anything to sustain a legit debate means you must provide empirical data to support your claim. Something that you cannot possibly do to support your confused notion of theist evil.

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Posted: 23 May 2007 01:12 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 43 ]  
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Very nicely said, Chad.  I hope you stick around.

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