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to prove God
Posted: 30 April 2008 07:41 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 241 ]  
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[ Edited: 07 March 2011 05:04 PM by J.C.]
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Posted: 03 May 2008 02:17 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 242 ]  
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Jefe
To cherish, to treasure, to embrace, family, friends, pets, and job, strive for happiness and harmony.

Is better to make you life in a stronger foundation than that, the foundation that teach you to be happy even if you loose your possessions, family, friends, pets, job, and health in the same day, the foundation is the TRUTH.   

So Jefe do you believe on life or death?
[  ]  life
[  ] death.

Unbeliever

What should we do now that we are here?

a) Have control over the universe is the main goal (From netred972, Michio Kaku )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7FVjATcqvc&feature=related
b) There is no grand purpose for our existence, No “why”. (From Aaron, Lawrence m. Krauss, Glenn D. Starkman, and Dennis Overbye).
c) We don’t know. If there is a purpose, we have not found it. (From Jefe )
d) I don’t have any explanation for my reality (From SkepticX & Mia)

e) Unbeliever (you answer here):


“Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”
“I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty”

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Posted: 03 May 2008 05:20 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 243 ]  
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Jefe Posted: 03 May 2008 03:52 PM

You still don’t get it, do you?
We’re not having a conversation, and your little multiple-choice quizzes are meaningless.


We need to strongly establish our individual points.

If someone evades direct questions, what can I do?
Evading direct question is comparable to the “fanatic religious people” I use to argue with, when I was an atheist.

So Jefe do you believe on life or death?
[  ]  life
[  ] death.

Unbeliever

What should we do now that we are here?

a) Have control over the universe is the main goal (From netred972, Michio Kaku )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7FVjATcqvc&feature=related
b) There is no grand purpose for our existence, No “why”. (From Aaron, Lawrence m. Krauss, Glenn D. Starkman, and Dennis Overbye).
c) We don’t know. If there is a purpose, we have not found it. (From Jefe )
d) I don’t have any explanation for my reality (From SkepticX & Mia)

e) Unbeliever (you answer here):

 

“Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”
“I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty”

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Posted: 03 May 2008 05:37 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 244 ]  
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Jefe - 30 April 2008 11:48 AM

Here it is ‘polished’ a little to stand on its own…

Excellent. There’s one aspect of personal happiness which you didn’t address. In some situations, one’s own happiness may be less important than other things. For instance, one might sacrifice one’s happiness to spare a loved one from suffering.  In other cases, one might have to choose between happiness and knowledge, if the knowledge is of a specific unpleasant fact.

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Posted: 05 May 2008 02:50 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 245 ]  
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Jefe Posted: 03 May 2008 05:43 PM

Your position is meaningless.  Its just words you speak.
It amounts to nothing.
The questions you ask are non-functional, unless you’re trying to lead up to some transparent logic trap.


Look as if that you fear logic (reason, judgment, wisdom, common sense), I suppose logic is Sam Harris’s way to find the truth, however that is Sam’s way (probable?) not Jefe’s way.

1. - To get the truth we use:
a)  Logic thoughts.

b)  Irrational thoughts.

Jefe Posted: 03 May 2008 05:43 PM

Do I believe in life or do I believe in death?  I believe in both.  People live and people die.


Nice try to go around the point.


Jefe Posted: 03 May 2008 05:43 PM

But you’re over-simplified leading question leaves no room for discussion.  Therefore you’ll never fully understand someone else’s position simply because you don’t discuss, you just quiz.


I think the purpose of discussions is to arrive to a conclusion; I don’t think discussions are just conversations with out a goal. Therefore when we get to a position with no room for discussion then we reach the goal.

The truth does not have room for discussion; if you want to create your own fantasy world around convenient ideals and complain because you can’t answers simple questions that lead you to the truth, you free to do it.


2. - Do you believe life or death will have the definitive power over the universe?
a)  Life
b)  Death.

Unbeliever
What should we do now that we are here?

a) Have control over the universe is the main goal (From netred972, Michio Kaku )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7FVjATcqvc&feature=related
b) There is no grand purpose for our existence, No “why”. (From Aaron, Lawrence m. Krauss, Glenn D. Starkman, and Dennis Overbye).
c) We don’t know. If there is a purpose, we have not found it. (From Jefe )
d) I don’t have any explanation for my reality (From SkepticX & Mia)

e) Unbeliever (you answer here):

“Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”
“I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty”

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Posted: 06 May 2008 09:25 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 246 ]  
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Jefe - 03 July 2007 05:45 AM
Simple Answer: We don’t know.


Did you mean?

1) I do not know, however your alternative has 1% probability to be truth.

Or

2) I do not know, however your alternative has 0% probability to be truth.

Unbeliever
What should we do now that we are here?

a) Have control over the universe is the main goal (From netred972, Michio Kaku )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7FVjATcqvc&feature=related
b) There is no grand purpose for our existence, No “why”. (From Aaron, Lawrence m. Krauss, Glenn D. Starkman, and Dennis Overbye).
c) We don’t know. If there is a purpose, we have not found it. (From Jefe )
d) I don’t have any explanation for my reality (From SkepticX & Mia)

e) Unbeliever (you answer here):

“Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”
“I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty”

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Posted: 06 May 2008 08:31 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 247 ]  
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netred972 - 03 May 2008 06:17 PM

Jefe
To cherish, to treasure, to embrace, family, friends, pets, and job, strive for happiness and harmony.

Is better to make you life in a stronger foundation than that, the foundation that teach you to be happy even if you loose your possessions, family, friends, pets, job, and health in the same day, the foundation is the TRUTH.   

So Jefe do you believe on life or death?
[  ]  life
[  ] death.

Brother, have you lost it completely? Jeff is talking about friends, family and pets, which are not only real but very much alive. Jeff’s message is also quite uplifting.

Now, let’s look at your program. I am not even sure if you are trying to scare or entertain us. I could ask you to explain the nonsense you wrote if I could force myself to believe that you are capable of providing any coherent explanation.

Now look at the TRUTH. The bigger letters you use to spell it the more of empty space creeps between the letters. Doesn’t look like a solid foundation for anything, much less to be trusted as a foundation for my happiness. Puff and there goes your TRUTH.

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Posted: 07 May 2008 05:39 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 248 ]  
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netred972 - 05 May 2008 06:50 PM

I think the purpose of discussions is to arrive to a conclusion ...

Putting the vast array of objections aside, it works much better if you apply reason effectively, which requires a genuine interest in whatever the best answer may be (rather than in merely confirming a presumption/hastily decided “answer”) and a functional degree of intellectual responsibility and self-discipline, which is how we avoid presumption and fallacies.

This is a key differentiation between intellectual children and intellectual adults.

Byron

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“We say, ‘Love your brother…’ We don’t say it really, but… Well we don’t literally say it. We don’t really, literally mean it. No, we don’t believe it either, but… But that message should be clear.”—David St. Hubbins

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Posted: 09 May 2008 11:16 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 249 ]  
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To Jefe

Jefe Posted: 06 May 2008 11:28 AM

I mean “We don’t know.”
We don’t even know enough to calculate probability of truth for any assumptive leap.  Because there is currently zero evidence for any of your assumptions, I’d say any assumption of probability is simply wishful thinking, and not worth considering from a logical standpoint.  Until there is some evidence or realistic models from which to project, there is no point in presuming anything.


What do you respond to Sam Harris when he say God do not exist?

1)  I agree
2)  I disagree
3)  I do not know
———————————————————————————-

To Thomas Orr

Thomas Orr Posted: 06 May 2008 08:31 PM
Now, let’s look at your program. I am not even sure if you are trying to scare or entertain us. I could ask you to explain the nonsense you wrote if I could force myself to believe that you are capable of providing any coherent explanation.
Now look at the TRUTH. The bigger letters you use to spell it the more of empty space creeps between the letters. Doesn’t look like a solid foundation for anything, much less to be trusted as a foundation for my happiness. Puff and there goes your TRUTH.

1.- Who has more belongings?
A) Britney Spears
B) Tibetan monk

2.-Who the people use to ask “what is happiness” ?
A) Britney Spears
B) A Tibetan monk.

3.-Does happiness is inside you or in the amounts of stuff do you have?

—————————————————-
To Skepticx (the intellectual adult)

SkepticX Posted: 07 May 2008 05:39 AM

Putting the vast array of objections aside, it works much better if you apply reason effectively, which requires a genuine interest in whatever the best answer may be (rather than in merely confirming a presumption/hastily decided “answer”) and a functional degree of intellectual responsibility and self-discipline, which is how we avoid presumption and fallacies.

This is a key differentiation between intellectual children and intellectual adults.

Do you have a genuine interest to answer the question “Unbeliever” did?
What should we do now that we are here? 


———————————————————-

 

 

unbeliever
What should we do now that we are here?

a) Have control over the universe is the main goal (From netred972, Michio Kaku )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7FVjATcqvc&feature=related
b) There is no grand purpose for our existence, No “why”. (From Aaron, Lawrence m. Krauss, Glenn D. Starkman, and Dennis Overbye).
c) We don’t know. If there is a purpose, we have not found it. (From Jefe )
d) I don’t have any explanation for my reality (From SkepticX & Mia)

e) Unbeliever (you answer here):

“Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”
“I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty”

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Posted: 09 May 2008 11:34 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 250 ]  
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netred972 - 09 May 2008 03:16 PM

To Skepticx (the intellectual adult)

SkepticX Posted: 07 May 2008 05:39 AM

Putting the vast array of objections aside, it works much better if you apply reason effectively, which requires a genuine interest in whatever the best answer may be (rather than in merely confirming a presumption/hastily decided “answer”) and a functional degree of intellectual responsibility and self-discipline, which is how we avoid presumption and fallacies.

This is a key differentiation between intellectual children and intellectual adults.

Do you have a genuine interest to answer the question “Unbeliever” did?
What should we do now that we are here?

I have a genuine interest in finding real answers if they exist, and just as genuine an interest in not buying into false “answers” (which is actually what science and skepticism are primarily about, and why they’re diametrically opposed to religious modes of thinking). Often the questions people ask guarantee failure (as in the case of most of the questions I’ve seen you pose in here), but in many cases those asking the doomed questions are too emotionally attached to them (and particular presumed answers) to accept it no matter how rationally unavoidable the fact.

Adults learn to cope with reality even when it’s not desirable, or uncomfortable, or even when it’s deeply painful. It seems there are fewer and fewer adults, and that in religious circles adults tend to be even more scarce than elsewhere.

Byron

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“We say, ‘Love your brother…’ We don’t say it really, but… Well we don’t literally say it. We don’t really, literally mean it. No, we don’t believe it either, but… But that message should be clear.”—David St. Hubbins

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Posted: 28 May 2008 10:32 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 251 ]  
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To SkepticX

SkepticX Posted: 09 May 2008 11:34 AM

I have a genuine interest in finding real answers if they exist, and just as genuine an interest in not buying into false “answers” (which is actually what science and skepticism are primarily about, and why they’re diametrically opposed to religious modes of thinking)
Often the questions people ask guarantee failure (as in the case of most of the questions I’ve seen you pose in here), but in many cases those asking the doomed questions are too emotionally attached to them (and particular presumed answers) to accept it no matter how rationally unavoidable the fact.

Adults learn to cope with reality even when it’s not desirable, or uncomfortable, or even when it’s deeply painful. It seems there are fewer and fewer adults, and that in religious circles adults tend to be even more scarce than elsewhere.

To Skepticx

Is Michio Kaku ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7FVjATcqvc&feature=related )
finding false “answers”, a guarantee failure, emotional?
1)  Yes
2)  No

———————————————————————-
To Jefe

Jefe Posted: 09 May 2008 12:04 PM

Come back and chat with me when you want to have a conversation. This little pre-assumptive question and answer game you have going here is not productive to communication.
P.S.  You limit the answers too much, and thus close off possibility of exploration of actual thoughts and feelings on issues.  This does not bring about greater understanding of the issue that (in your mind) begged the question.  What about answers 4) ...  5) ...  X) ...  Delta) ...?
Or do you figure I have no further thoughts on the subject outside of your limited range or provided answers?


You do not have further thoughts, you want to a conversation to evade the truth.

What do you respond to Sam Harris when he say God do not exist?
1) I agree
2) I disagree
3) I do not know
4) …..

unbeliever
What should we do now that we are here?

a) Have control over the universe is the main goal (From netred972, Michio Kaku )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7FVjATcqvc&feature=related
b) There is no grand purpose for our existence, No “why”. (From Aaron, Lawrence m. Krauss, Glenn D. Starkman, and Dennis Overbye).
c) We don’t know. If there is a purpose, we have not found it. (From Jefe )
d) I don’t have any explanation for my reality (From SkepticX & Mia)

e) Unbeliever (you answer here):


“Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”
“I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty”

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Posted: 28 May 2008 11:08 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 252 ]  
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netred972 - 28 May 2008 02:32 PM

Is Michio Kaku ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7FVjATcqvc&feature=related )
finding false “answers”, a guarantee failure, emotional?

Not likely. Kaku thinks like an actual adult ... which is why you don’t see him trying to impose disingenuous, infantile “yes or no” or multiple choice pseudo-questions on people.

Do you really think Kaku’s theories have anything at all to do with your presumptions?

Byron

[ Edited: 28 May 2008 11:33 AM by SkepticX]
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Posted: 28 May 2008 11:43 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 253 ]  
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To SkepticX

SkepticX Posted: 28 May 2008 11:08 AM

Not likely. Kaku thinks like an adult ... which is why you don’t see him trying to impose disingenuous, infantile “yes or no” pseudo-questions on people.


So do you agree with Kaku?
1)  100%
2)  1%
3)  0%

 

———————————————
To Jefe

Jefe Posted: 28 May 2008 11:14 AM

Good show.  Assumptive.  Presumptuous.  And final.

This is a perfect place to close the conversation.

G’luck.


Bye,
God bless you.

unbeliever
What should we do now that we are here?

a) Have control over the universe is the main goal (From netred972, Michio Kaku )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7FVjATcqvc&feature=related
b) There is no grand purpose for our existence, No “why”. (From Aaron, Lawrence m. Krauss, Glenn D. Starkman, and Dennis Overbye).
c) We don’t know. If there is a purpose, we have not found it. (From Jefe )
d) I don’t have any explanation for my reality (From SkepticX & Mia)

e) Unbeliever (you answer here):

“Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”
“I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty”

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Posted: 29 May 2008 12:29 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 254 ]  
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Proof of existence of living supreme Being:

homo Sapiens.

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Posted: 29 May 2008 01:20 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 255 ]  
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paulyr2 - 29 May 2008 04:29 PM

Proof of existence of living supreme Being:

homo Sapiens.

How do you figure?

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