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to prove God
Posted: 06 August 2007 12:09 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 61 ]  
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[quote author=“pj2d01”]I can admit I am getting wild, and I’ve never really debated about this before, so I don’t really know where I’m fully going, but I do know I can’t speak my full mind, and that’s no cop-out either. Certain knowledge is forbidden out here, and will get you killed.

No knowledge is forbidden here. That’s the point. What is forbidden - or at least challenged - is lecturing us “heathens” with proclamations for which you have no evidence. Either you have good reasons for what you believe, or you don’t. If you don’t, get ready for a challenge.

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Posted: 06 August 2007 01:36 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 62 ]  
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[quote author=“pj2d01”]. . .
But if you want to investigate more for yourself from the other side, you can go to

http://www.angelfire.com/empire/serpentis666/HOME.html

That’s fine, pj, but you might as well accept the fact that you will not be taken seriously here unless you at least temporarily suspend your belief in psychic/supernatural influence. To do otherwise would be a sure sign of a diagnosable problem. Issue. Disorder.

I apologize if you’re fucking 90 years old, unable to pretend in order to be accepted by others.

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Philosophy may in no way interfere with the actual use of language; it can in the end only describe it. For it cannot give it any foundations either. It leaves everything as it is.
Ludwig Wittgenstein

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Posted: 06 August 2007 01:48 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 63 ]  
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Calling Dennis Campbell, if you’re watching this thread.

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Philosophy may in no way interfere with the actual use of language; it can in the end only describe it. For it cannot give it any foundations either. It leaves everything as it is.
Ludwig Wittgenstein

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Posted: 07 August 2007 06:44 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 64 ]  
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[quote author=“pj2d01”]Since your the gatekeepers of science, I know I have to go through you to claim science for myself.

Science is about producing useful models of reality. You will need to do more that babble about psychic phenomena and mental matrices to convince anyone that you hold the secrets of the universe. Try explaining how your hypothesis explains some phenomena better than any other theory. As you pointed out earlier, like George Lucas with Star Wars, anyone can make up a coherent fiction to explain fantasy.

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“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.” - Voltaire

“Rational arguments do not work on religious people, otherwise there would be no religious people.”—Dr. House

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Posted: 07 August 2007 08:20 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 65 ]  
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[quote author=“pj2d01”]I’m scared of metal physical bullets penetrating my body. Mental bullets, I don’t think so, I think I’m holding my own. I’m glad your calling me crazy, I’ve never really been called that before, and I know I’m not. I think I’m bending you. Since your the gatekeepers of science, I know I have to go through you to claim science for myself.

Wrong, no gatekeepers of science here.  If you want to claim science for yourself I suggest that you enroll at a local university and get a degree (preferably a Ph.D.) in one of the harder sciences (physics, chemistry, biology, cognitive science) with a strong minor in math.  Then work as a practicing scientist for a while.  You sound like you think science is something that can just be poured into your head in a week or so.  In reality, if you don’t do the work, you don’t get the goodies (how much work would you have to put in to become a master carpenter, for example).

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Posted: 07 August 2007 09:40 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 66 ]  
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[quote author=“pj2d01”][quote author=“burt”][quote author=“pj2d01”]I’m scared of metal physical bullets penetrating my body. Mental bullets, I don’t think so, I think I’m holding my own. I’m glad your calling me crazy, I’ve never really been called that before, and I know I’m not. I think I’m bending you. Since your the gatekeepers of science, I know I have to go through you to claim science for myself.

Wrong, no gatekeepers of science here.  If you want to claim science for yourself I suggest that you enroll at a local university and get a degree (preferably a Ph.D.) in one of the harder sciences (physics, chemistry, biology, cognitive science) with a strong minor in math.  Then work as a practicing scientist for a while.  You sound like you think science is something that can just be poured into your head in a week or so.  In reality, if you don’t do the work, you don’t get the goodies (how much work would you have to put in to become a master carpenter, for example).

I want to claim science from you damn materialists who are hell bent on using it as weapon against religion.

Same process applies, whatever your goals.

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Posted: 07 August 2007 10:01 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 67 ]  
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[quote author=“pj2d01”]I’m not babbling about anything. This physic area is different than material science so it has its own proofs and language, which are psychological, and spritual, it can get into the material, and does, but it starts in thought. It’s like if you go to a marriage counselor, the counselor not going to say, ‘here’s this rock, here are it’s properties, now your marriage is fixed’. No, he’s going to say what are your issues (love, hate, etc).

Yet you haven’t offered anything approaching an explanation of the proofs and language of your spiritual world. Your only “proof” that the spirit exists separate from the material body is your own personal experience. Since personal experience is personal, or in other words unique, to each person, how can it prove anything? Evidence must be verifiable and repeatable whether we’re discussing physics or metaphysics.

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“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.” - Voltaire

“Rational arguments do not work on religious people, otherwise there would be no religious people.”—Dr. House

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Posted: 07 August 2007 10:19 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 68 ]  
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[quote author=“pj2d01”]I want to claim science from you damn materialists who are hell bent on using it as weapon against religion.

It’s the other way around. Theistic religions make claims about the universe, such as God creating the universe and God causing events to happen.  Religions shouldn’t make any such claims - the universe is the concern of science. Religions should focus on meaning and purpose. It is logically unacceptable to attribute events to beings that cannot be detected empirically .

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Posted: 07 August 2007 10:34 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 69 ]  
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This is “hot” topic: more heat and noise than signal.  I not so humbly refer you to the “Elements of a Science,” posted elsewhere in this maze.  One of the problems here seems to me to be a lack of common definitions and understanding of terms used. 

“Inner reality” is just that, a person’s subjective experiences that are objectified only by the words they use to represent such experiences.  That does not denigrate such experiences, I’m simply saying that unless and until they can be somehow defined and measured in a way that permits operational definitions, they are not a subject for science. 

As one person posted here, science is tool not a faith-based belief system.  That tool requires a lot of work, effort and patience for sometimes frustrating results.  The tool itself changes with time and experience and becomes more useful but never perfect. 

Dennis

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Truth, especially “moral truth,” is that elusive human creation whose exclusive apprehension is claimed by many, who then sanctimoniously condemn anyone else who does not agree with their particular apprehension, while denying that any question can be posed about their own apprehension.  I will try to avoid that tendency.  DEC

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Posted: 07 August 2007 11:03 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 70 ]  
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[quote author=“pj2d01”]Yeah, sure, but I don’t live in a vacuum, so my personal experience is an active dynamic part of what’s going on around me. It’s knowledge as a spritual property. Like 2+2=4, thats exists as pure mentality without having to take 2 sticks, and 2 other sticks and counting them off. But you say you can take 4 sticks, well you can do this spritual stuff materially too. That’s what the Eastern mystics practice, thats documented, and written and taught. Walking on hot coals, beds of nails, and the super strengh of the martial artists. Breaking the bricks, and wood is more than leverage, and muscle. It’s well known they dabble in the occult. I’m pretty sure its related to that mental zone I was talking about before. So you say I’m just theorizing, fine, but I couldn’t just theorize out of space. It’s that personal experience your talking about, fine again.

I’m sure we could go on forever arguing the metaphysics of consciousness and get nowhere. Even if I accepted your personal experience as proof that we exist on a spiritual level separate from the material world, how would that prove your initial claim that God exists, and more specifically your belief that Protestant Christianity accurately depicts that God?

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“Rational arguments do not work on religious people, otherwise there would be no religious people.”—Dr. House

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Posted: 07 August 2007 11:26 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 71 ]  
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[quote author=“pj2d01”][quote author=“burt”][quote author=“pj2d01”]I’m scared of metal physical bullets penetrating my body. Mental bullets, I don’t think so, I think I’m holding my own. I’m glad your calling me crazy, I’ve never really been called that before, and I know I’m not. I think I’m bending you. Since your the gatekeepers of science, I know I have to go through you to claim science for myself.

Wrong, no gatekeepers of science here.  If you want to claim science for yourself I suggest that you enroll at a local university and get a degree (preferably a Ph.D.) in one of the harder sciences (physics, chemistry, biology, cognitive science) with a strong minor in math.  Then work as a practicing scientist for a while.  You sound like you think science is something that can just be poured into your head in a week or so.  In reality, if you don’t do the work, you don’t get the goodies (how much work would you have to put in to become a master carpenter, for example).

I want to claim science from you damn materialists who are hell bent on using it as weapon against religion. That’s not my major area anyway. Mine is illustration and history. I’m interested in electronics, I built my computer.

First off, don’t go assuming that we are all materialists.  I, for one, am perfectly open to considering psychic phenomena from a scientific perspective, and understand that the boundaries of science may need to be extended to do this.  But it has to be done in a way that does not negate current scientific methods and practices (as contrasted to current theories).  To do that, you need to know these methods and practices, and you don’t get that from chatting about it, you gotta get your hands dirty.

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Posted: 07 August 2007 12:28 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 72 ]  
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Conspiratorial paranoid bullshit.

One must perform rituals and/or intentionally act in some way to invite Satan and/or his Demons into one’s life. Satan DOES NOT push himself on anyone.

For my friends’ benefit, I have invited Satan many times in the past (once on this board), as I do right now to come and get me.

Come and get me, Satan, you old sonofabitch. I double dare you!
:twisted:

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Posted: 07 August 2007 02:22 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 73 ]  
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Remember, treat the knowledge you are given here with serious respect and you will be fine.

You have to earn respect, buddy. Don’t care what invisible supernatural monster you proclaim. They’re all equally nonexistent.
LOL

I’m still here! Satan? Where are you? Come on! My immortal soul awaits you, sexy! All yours!
http://xxlsmiley.com/i/xxl/Anmache-sexy.jpg

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Posted: 07 August 2007 05:19 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 74 ]  
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[quote author=“pj2d01”][quote author=“pj2d01”]I have received several personal e-mails from former atheists and other skeptics who believed Satanism and the occult were nothing but fantasy, products of an over active imagination, and/or unrealistic foolishness. All of these people wrote to me because they realized to their surprise, Satan is *very* real.

Somehow, you sound like so much Nigerian spam e-mail.

I have also read public articles from varied sources where secular individuals attempted to experiment with the rituals on this website just for kicks. They got blatant experiences all right—the wrong ones.

Scary!

Those who are out for laughs and kicks are inviting disaster.


You sound like every bad scary movie every made.

In addition to the e-mails I have gotten from former skeptics, my purpose for writing this article is because a group of professional people who were skeptics, attempted to summon a Demon as a joke, and were brought to my attention after the fact. They found out the hard way that Satanic rituals are not something to take lightly or to toy around with.

“Hey maaaan….you don’t wanna mess with that stuff…I’m just sayin!”

About myself: Though I was raised as a Christian, I became an atheist in my early twenties. I WAS A STRONG ATHEIST FOR OVER FIFTEEN YEARS before coming to Satanism. I did not even believe in the existence of the human soul. I attended University, majoring in the physical sciences for a number of years, and have been an active former member of American Mensa.

Former? When did the intelligence disappear? When the delusions set in?

She’s saying she was just like you and got converted. She’s challenging your assumptions. She’s saying people have come with your exact additudes and got smacked in the face. But I sort of don’t recommend it because you could be playing with your sanity. But if it could educate you… I don’t know.

Aww geez!

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Posted: 07 August 2007 05:22 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 75 ]  
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[quote author=“pj2d01”]I heard of similar “psychic shocks” of some female college professor messing with the Kabballah. Also, it happens to soldiers in war. I have a cousin who went to Vietnam, and now he’s screwed seriously.

Awesome! Pass me another beer and the bag of marshmallows, would you? I’m gonna throw some more wood on the fire.

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