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Moral obligations toward rocks
Posted: 07 September 2007 08:24 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 46 ]  
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[quote author=“unsmoked”]Salty,

I went back and fixed Willy’s name wherever I could.  I wouldn’t like it if someone called me ‘unsmoket’.

Ah, but what about Werner?

Unsmoket?

Rhymes with “Raket”. Fick’ nicht mit dem Raketenmensch.

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Posted: 07 September 2007 08:30 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 47 ]  
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[quote author=“Doug Indeap”]The end result may be much as you advocate, i.e., we should refrain from blowing up the statue or house or planet because to do so would violate our ethical obligations to each other and to the other beings inhabiting the world.

Basically, any organism that is not pelagic owes a great deal to the rock to which it is fastened. And any organism that is pelagic owes a great deal to the water which is puffed out of volcanoes, rather than still dissolved in magma, where it belongs. Under pressure, that is.

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Posted: 07 September 2007 09:13 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 48 ]  
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Contemplating this subject again, I think of the people who buy things that are made from animals, even when they know that particular horn or hide is from an endangered animal.  People buy gold jewelry even though they know that gold mining is very destructive to the environment.  I think moral obligation toward rocks is an attitude, or feeling about the world around you.  One of Thoreau’s famous lines, “In wilderness is the preservation of the world.” 

There is a certain feeling when you get off the beaten path in a national park or other place where nature hasn’t been disturbed.  I don’t get that feeling when I’m in long-settled country where trees are planted in rows and have number tags on them.  The opening lines in the Bible are not comforting.  To most people, it seems the earth is a place to be exploited and used up - middens everywhere.

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“The simple fables of the religious of the world have come to seem like tales told to children.”  - Nobel Prize recipient - Francis Crick

“It is time we recognized the boundless narcissism and self-deceit of the saved.” - Sam Harris

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Posted: 07 September 2007 10:11 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 49 ]  
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[quote author=“unsmoked”]Contemplating this subject again, I think of the people who buy things that are made from animals, even when they know that particular horn or hide is from an endangered animal.  People buy gold jewelry even though they know that gold mining is very destructive to the environment.  I think moral obligation toward rocks is an attitude, or feeling about the world around you.  One of Thoreau’s famous lines, “In wilderness is the preservation of the world.”

Thoreau communicated this line by using paper, which came from a tree that was cut down.  You communicated Thoreau’s line to us by using a computer, which uses microchips made from silicon, which is commercially prepared by the reaction of high-purity silica with wood, charcoal, and coal, in an electric arc furnace using carbon electrodes, at temperatures over 1900 °C.  You need to start deciding which amenities of life you are going to do without.

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Posted: 07 September 2007 01:44 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 50 ]  
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[quote author=“Salt Creek”] any organism that is not pelagic owes a great deal to the rock to which it is fastened.

I love that.

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Posted: 07 September 2007 05:03 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 51 ]  
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[quote author=“Bruce Burleson”] You need to start deciding which amenities of life you are going to do without.

We all do, if we don’t want global warming to wreck our civilization and the planet in general.  Are gas guzzling cars and giant houses amenities?
300 page newspapers?  Suggested reading - ‘COLLAPSE’ by Jared Diamond.
(Pulitzer Prize winning author of ‘Guns, Germs, and Steel.’)

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“It is time we recognized the boundless narcissism and self-deceit of the saved.” - Sam Harris

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Posted: 07 September 2007 05:09 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 52 ]  
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[quote author=“unsmoked”][quote author=“Bruce Burleson”] You need to start deciding which amenities of life you are going to do without.

We all do, if we don’t want global warming to wreck our civilization and the planet in general.  Are gas guzzling cars and giant houses amenities?
300 page newspapers?  Suggested reading - ‘COLLAPSE’ by Jared Diamond.
(Pulitzer Prize winning author of ‘Guns, Germs, and Steel.’)

I am doing my part - I don’t have a Hummer, I don’t have a giant house, and I don’t subscribe to the NY Times.  I can sleep tonight.

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Posted: 07 September 2007 05:23 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 53 ]  
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[quote author=“Bruce Burleson”][quote author=“unsmoked”][quote author=“Bruce Burleson”] You need to start deciding which amenities of life you are going to do without.

We all do, if we don’t want global warming to wreck our civilization and the planet in general.  Are gas guzzling cars and giant houses amenities?
300 page newspapers?  Suggested reading - ‘COLLAPSE’ by Jared Diamond.
(Pulitzer Prize winning author of ‘Guns, Germs, and Steel.’)

I am doing my part - I don’t have a Hummer, I don’t have a giant house, and I don’t subscribe to the NY Times.  I can sleep tonight.

Bruce, that’s good news, but Greenland is still melting.  We need to think of more stuff we can do without.  Imagine our lifestyle if we brought our ‘carbon footprint’ down to the per capita world average.  If we don’t, doesn’t that suggest to you that this great Christian nation is largely responsible for the looming global disaster?

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Posted: 07 September 2007 05:42 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 54 ]  
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[quote author=“unsmoked”]We need to think of more stuff we can do without.

Such as children? I tell ya, this is a great time to be childless and old enough to see the dark at the end of the tunnel.

http://www.worldwithoutus.com/index2.html

It won’t happen for awhile, but I’m being purposely vague.

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Posted: 09 September 2007 06:21 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 55 ]  
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[quote author=“Salt Creek”][quote author=“unsmoked”]We need to think of more stuff we can do without.

Such as children? I tell ya, this is a great time to be childless and old enough to see the dark at the end of the tunnel.

http://www.worldwithoutus.com/index2.html

It won’t happen for awhile, but I’m being purposely vague.

At the other end, here is an interesting look at the world WITH us:

http://www.mongrelmedia.com/films/ManufacturedLandscapes.html

note the scene that dwells on the factory worker’s hands (in China)

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“The simple fables of the religious of the world have come to seem like tales told to children.”  - Nobel Prize recipient - Francis Crick

“It is time we recognized the boundless narcissism and self-deceit of the saved.” - Sam Harris

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Posted: 10 September 2007 01:52 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 56 ]  
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[quote author=“unsmoked”]At the other end, here is an interesting look at the world WITH us:

Cool. I didn’t know it at the time, but the other one was an interesting take on a subject that might interest some wags here: That trope about the role of the observer in quantum mechanics. When we do go, there will still be some Kafkaesque cockroaches to do a little observing on the side. :D

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Posted: 12 September 2007 08:17 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 57 ]  
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Good article on global warming.

http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/news_press_release,176495.shtml

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Posted: 12 September 2007 11:45 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 58 ]  
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The Hudson Institute, eh? Google it.

“The Hudson Institute is a right-leaning U.S. think tank, founded in 1961 in Croton-on-Hudson, New York, by the futurist Herman Kahn and other colleagues from the RAND Corporation.”

Does that say enough? This is just the kind of non-science that the extraction and polluting industries fund. Shame on you.

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Posted: 12 September 2007 01:49 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 59 ]  
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[quote author=“blessedmommyx5”]       
We strip men and women of the certainty that they are created in the image of God, and we are suprised when they act like the beasts of the field.

The beasts of the field? Like cows and horses? Rabbits, gophers? What’s the problem, they don’t start enough wars or carry out as many suicide bombings as people who are sure of their Creator? No history of torturing women or jailing scientists? Too busy pulling the plow or munching on dandelions? Silly quote. Besides, you spelled surprised wrong.

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Posted: 12 September 2007 02:10 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 60 ]  
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[quote author=“g.wood”]
Besides, you spelled surprised wrong.

Oh, thank you for pointing out the spelling error. I promptly fixed it.
LOL  Read some news stories, like the one in W VA about the black woman being tortured, sexually assaulted,  and humiliated (forced to eat rat feces, drink from a toilet)  for 6 days.  I would call what they did acting like beasts.  Whataya think, G Wood?? 

That is only one in millions of examples.

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