5 of 6
5
Moral obligations toward rocks
Posted: 12 September 2007 02:17 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 61 ]  
Administrator
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1568
Joined  2006-03-02

[quote author=“blessedmommyx5”][quote author=“g.wood”]
Besides, you spelled surprised wrong.

Oh, thank you for pointing out the spelling error. I promptly fixed it.
LOL  Read some news stories, like the one in W VA about the black woman being tortured and humiliated for 6 days.  I would call what they did acting like beasts.  Whataya think, G Wood?? 

That is only one in millions of examples.

So, what you need to do is to start a new thread, titled something like, “When I decided to shut my mind off”  and make sure that you tell everyone that you are not interested in investigating anything, only revealing your own biases.

Do you really suppose that people never committed horrible crimes before the theory of evolution was formulated?  Do you really suppose that people who are convinced that they are God’s creation never commit atrocities?  Is there any fact that you are not ashamed to deny if it you think that doing so is required by your faith?

 Signature 

What do I care for a hell for oppressors? What good can hell do, since those children have already been tortured? And what becomes of harmony, if there is hell? I want to forgive. I want to embrace. I don’t want more suffering. And if the sufferings of children go to swell the sum of sufferings which was necessary to pay for truth, then I protest that the truth is not worth such a price.
-Ivan Karamazov

Profile
 
 
Posted: 12 September 2007 05:46 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 62 ]  
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  2136
Joined  2006-02-20

Blessed mommy X 5,

The average Christian is simply an adult who believes in Santa Claus.
This mental quirk can’t really be called insanity, and it doesn’t fit to call it stupidity.  Was it waltercat who just used the expression, ‘non-science’.  I couldn’t help noticing that non-science sounds a lot like ‘nonsense.’  The U.S is a country where 70 million adults are committed to non-science, or nonsense, (the Santa Claus God), and dearly is planet earth going to pay for it.

The Bible quotes Jesus as saying, “By their fruits you shall know them.”  (i.e. you can tell what kind of tree it is by the fruit that it bears).  Among the fruits of this nonsensical ‘great Christian nation’ (where upwards of 70 million adults worship a kind of Santa Claus), is global warming and other forms of environmental degradation.  Did you ever hear Billy Graham or any other Christian mouthpeace tell their listeners to drive an energy efficient car or live in a small energy efficient house, or talk about how the fate of Manhatten may be linked to the fate of Greenland’s ice cap?  It seems the fate of the planet, and the physical well-being of your children is not their concern.  Their concern is the fate of your immortal soul.  So while your immortal soul is happy up there in the greenhouse gases, your ‘blessed 5’ will be coping with a world gone mad with billions of starving refugees from the low countries and cities, mass extinctions, malaria moving north, and a host of other calamities.

 Signature 

“The simple fables of the religious of the world have come to seem like tales told to children.”  - Nobel Prize recipient - Francis Crick

“It is time we recognized the boundless narcissism and self-deceit of the saved.” - Sam Harris

Profile
 
 
Posted: 12 September 2007 11:31 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 63 ]  
Member
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  112
Joined  2007-07-16

[quote author=“blessedmommyx5”]
LOL  Read some news stories, like the one in W VA about the black woman being tortured, sexually assaulted,  and humiliated (forced to eat rat feces, drink from a toilet)  for 6 days.  I would call what they did acting like beasts.  Whataya think, G Wood??

I would call what they did acting like humans. Face it, mom, we’re a cruel species, and faith or no faith hasn’t much to do with it. Equating human atrocity to farm animal behavior is ridiculous.

[ Edited: 12 September 2007 11:41 PM by ]
 Signature 

Music by me: http://www.myspace.com/gwoodbonobos

Profile
 
 
Posted: 12 September 2007 11:35 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 64 ]  
Member
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  112
Joined  2007-07-16
[quote author=“unsmoked”]Did you ever hear Billy Graham or any other Christian mouthpeace tell their listeners to drive an energy efficient car or live in a small energy efficient house, or talk about how the fate of Manhatten may be linked to the fate of Greenland’s ice cap?  It seems the fate of the planet, and the physical well-being of your children is not their concern.

The Pope made some pro-environmental statements recently. I put them in a thread called “Guess The Quote” somewhere else.

 Signature 

Music by me: http://www.myspace.com/gwoodbonobos

Profile
 
 
Posted: 13 September 2007 12:00 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 65 ]  
Member
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  112
Joined  2007-07-16
[quote author=“unsmoked”]Was it waltercat who just used the expression, ‘non-science’

It was me.

The Hudson Institute, eh? Google it.

“The Hudson Institute is a right-leaning U.S. think tank, founded in 1961 in Croton-on-Hudson, New York, by the futurist Herman Kahn and other colleagues from the RAND Corporation.”

Does that say enough? This is just the kind of non-science that the extraction and polluting industries fund. Shame on you.

My point was that it really doesn’t matter what a bunch of Bob Jones and diploma mill PhD’s or agenda-driven charlatans say, because their work is designed to produce a preordained result. That’s the exact opposite of the the scientific method of inquiry. They’re really just puppets of their funders—Exxon Mobile, etc.

 Signature 

Music by me: http://www.myspace.com/gwoodbonobos

Profile
 
 
Posted: 13 September 2007 02:43 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 66 ]  
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  5404
Joined  2006-09-27
[quote author=“Jefe”](Please avoid use of insect examples…I’m familiar with some insects with ‘unsavory’ habits.)

We and the insects have a common ancestor, though whatever it was, it was not an insect. Whatever our other sins, past and present, not adopting the body plan of the insect was among them. Yes, “the good Lord seems to have been inordinately fond of beetles….”

 Signature 

INVEST in cynicism!

Profile
 
 
Posted: 13 September 2007 03:31 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 67 ]  
Member
Avatar
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  226
Joined  2007-07-30

[quote author=“Salt Creek”]
Yes, “the good Lord seems to have been inordinately fond of beetles….”

Or He is fond of a good joke.  LOL

Profile
 
 
Posted: 13 September 2007 03:34 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 68 ]  
Administrator
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1568
Joined  2006-03-02

[quote author=“blessedmommyx5”][quote author=“Salt Creek”]
Yes, “the good Lord seems to have been inordinately fond of be[a]tles….”

Or He is fond of a good joke.  LOL

Or maybe He wanted someone more popular than Jesus.

 Signature 

What do I care for a hell for oppressors? What good can hell do, since those children have already been tortured? And what becomes of harmony, if there is hell? I want to forgive. I want to embrace. I don’t want more suffering. And if the sufferings of children go to swell the sum of sufferings which was necessary to pay for truth, then I protest that the truth is not worth such a price.
-Ivan Karamazov

Profile
 
 
Posted: 13 September 2007 05:55 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 69 ]  
Member
Avatar
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  226
Joined  2007-07-30

Jefe, you make a good point.  I can’t think of even an animal that behaves in this way. 

But what I call a sinful and corrupt heart, you call….????

By the way, thank you for always being civil, even though you disagree strongly with me.  It is appreciated.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 13 September 2007 06:08 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 70 ]  
Member
Avatar
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  226
Joined  2007-07-30

[quote author=“waltercat”]

Do you really suppose that people never committed horrible crimes before the theory of evolution was formulated?  Do you really suppose that people who are convinced that they are God’s creation never commit atrocities?  Is there any fact that you are not ashamed to deny if it you think that doing so is required by your faith?

Of course I know that people have committed atrocities throughout history, but statistics don’t lie, waltercat.  It is getting worse, not better.  Teen suicide rates have skyrocketed, we have students murdering each other, violent crimes are ever increasing, sex crimes against children, the list goes on and on. 

And I know that Christians have brought great shame upon the name of Christ by committing atrocities, even in His name.  I don’t try to deny it nor sugar coat it.  But that doesn’t mean you throw the baby out with the bath water.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 13 September 2007 06:17 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 71 ]  
Administrator
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1568
Joined  2006-03-02

[quote author=“blessedmommyx5”][quote author=“waltercat”]

Do you really suppose that people never committed horrible crimes before the theory of evolution was formulated?  Do you really suppose that people who are convinced that they are God’s creation never commit atrocities?  Is there any fact that you are not ashamed to deny if it you think that doing so is required by your faith?

Of course I know that people have committed atrocities throughout history, but statistics don’t lie, waltercat.  It is getting worse, not better.  Teen suicide rates have skyrocketed, we have students murdering each other, violent crimes are ever increasing, sex crimes against children, the list goes on and on.

Let’s see the statistics then.  And please reveal how it is that you have determined that whatever relationship the statistics reveal (I’m not willing to make any claims until you show us the statistics you seem so familiar with) is a causal one.

And I know that Christians have brought great shame upon the name of Christ by committing atrocities, even in His name.  I don’t try to deny it nor sugar coat it.  But that doesn’t mean you throw the baby out with the bath water.

Doesn’t the double standard you are employing here bother you at all?  So we need to keep Christianity despite the fact that some people commit very real atrocities in its name.

However, according to you, we need to rid ourselves of evolution because of the perceived (by you, not by me or any other reasonable person) relationship between acceptance of the truth of evolution and societal ills.

Christianity causes bad things:  BM’s answer: Keep it because it makes me feel so good.

Evolution appears to BM (withtout evidence, mind you) to possibly cause societal ills:  BM’s answer: It must be false.

 Signature 

What do I care for a hell for oppressors? What good can hell do, since those children have already been tortured? And what becomes of harmony, if there is hell? I want to forgive. I want to embrace. I don’t want more suffering. And if the sufferings of children go to swell the sum of sufferings which was necessary to pay for truth, then I protest that the truth is not worth such a price.
-Ivan Karamazov

Profile
 
 
Posted: 13 September 2007 07:38 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 72 ]  
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  2136
Joined  2006-02-20

It is estimated from archeological evidence that humans arrived on the Western Hemisphere 15 or 20 thousand years ago.  Whatever Native American societies were like - noble or ignoble, we know that the land, ‘from sea to shining sea’, was a land of clean rivers, clean air, vast forests, plains teaming with game and rivers teaming with fish.

The Spanish Christians arrived 515 years ago and started making changes, including enslaving the native population and killing most of them off with murder and disease.  In those relatively brief 515 years this self-proclaimed Christian society has succeeded in transforming the clean, natural environment to a level where much of the air, land, and water is so degraded that it is toxic, and the polluted atmosphere is causing the Earth’s climate to change.

The U.S. produces most of the pollutants that cause greenhouse gases, and much of the blame for this can be placed on the doorstep of ‘The American Dream’ lifestyle.  Much of the blame for the ‘American Dream’ lifestyle can be placed on the doorstep of Christian America and its values.

The ideas of philosopher/lecturers like Thoreau have never been popular with Middle America, or Bible Belt America.  Materialism, consumerism, industrialism, ‘progress’ as expansion, progress as ‘bigger’, progress as covering the Earth with people - quantity, not quality - nature as something to be conquered and used.  Humans as a species to keep multiplying until the planet can bear no more - thanks to the Popes, and the ‘right-to-life’ fundamentalists, and all those who profit from the ever sprawling suburbs and high rises.

The calamity of global warming is still only dimly sensed by the Christians, and when the reality of it and its consequences finally dawns on them, they certainly are not going to feel responsible for it.  Billions of people are going to become flood and drought refugees, and billions are going to die of disease and starvation.  This, in large part, is the handiwork of the Christian ‘conquistadores’ of the New World.  No matter how many suffer and die, they will continue to be very pleased with themselves, their good works.  They will continue to, “Thank God I am not like other men!  I am saved by the grace of the Lord Jesus, and those who are not saved like me are going to everlasting torment!”

 Signature 

“The simple fables of the religious of the world have come to seem like tales told to children.”  - Nobel Prize recipient - Francis Crick

“It is time we recognized the boundless narcissism and self-deceit of the saved.” - Sam Harris

Profile
 
 
Posted: 13 September 2007 10:21 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 73 ]  
Member
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  112
Joined  2007-07-16

[quote author=“unsmoked”]The U.S. produces most of the pollutants that cause greenhouse gases…

Stop the presses, as of last year, China has exceeded us the the world’s biggest total greenhouse gas producer. Americans still exceed China on a per capita basis, though.

 Signature 

Music by me: http://www.myspace.com/gwoodbonobos

Profile
 
 
Posted: 13 September 2007 10:30 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 74 ]  
Member
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  112
Joined  2007-07-16

[quote author=“Salt Creek”]We and the insects have a common ancestor…

We and everything else on this planet*, including rocks (Remember rocks? This is a thread about rocks.) have a common ancestor. We live on a cooled mass of exploded star-stuff. Everything here originated with that. We are made of that and so is everything else.

* With the exception of a few moon rocks and meteorite fragments.

 Signature 

Music by me: http://www.myspace.com/gwoodbonobos

Profile
 
 
Posted: 14 September 2007 08:50 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 75 ]  
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  2136
Joined  2006-02-20

[quote author=“g.wood”][quote author=“Salt Creek”]We and the insects have a common ancestor…

We and everything else on this planet*, including rocks (Remember rocks? This is a thread about rocks.) have a common ancestor. We live on a cooled mass of exploded star-stuff. Everything here originated with that. We are made of that and so is everything else.

* With the exception of a few moon rocks and meteorite fragments.

“I believe a blade of grass is no less than the journey-work of the stars.”
- Walt Whitman

A few days ago I watched a scientist being bullied by a big-mouth on TV -
the scientist was trying to explain how much DNA we share with chimpanzees.  When the big-mouth tried to confuse what had just been said, the scientist responded, “Furthermore, we share a lot of DNA with bananas.”

How many hundred years before the Popes and fundamentalists acknowledge that homo sapien is descended from a line of primates?  Since they still haven’t figured out that the Earth is older than 7,000 years, maybe we’d better not rush them with the news about our stony ancestors. 

A fundamentalist preacher and member of an Arkansas school board has this to say in the year 2035:

“The atheists among us would have us believe that something as beautiful and complex as a chimpanzee, caring for her baby, teaching her young to use tools, manifesting obvious feelings and emotions, has evolved from a worm!  Shall we sit by and allow our schools to teach such blasphemous rubbish?” 

Could the liberal prophets who wandered around the Sea of Galilee 2,000 years ago have guessed that their exhortations would lead to millions, or billions of frozen minds far in the future?  Could they have guessed that their teachings would end up blinding people, making them incapable of using their reason and common sense to read the simple evidence imprinted in the rocks by nature?

(Gary, note that I used the word, ‘stony’, and ‘rocks’).

 Signature 

“The simple fables of the religious of the world have come to seem like tales told to children.”  - Nobel Prize recipient - Francis Crick

“It is time we recognized the boundless narcissism and self-deceit of the saved.” - Sam Harris

Profile
 
 
   
5 of 6
5
 
RSS 2.0     Atom Feed